.

[simplejeff]

7 minutes ago, Xethea said:

The thing about this, is you cannot say what the bible says about this. Because it doesn't say it is true, but it doesn't say it's false either. 

 

But it's just common sense. If you lose memory of something that happened, how can you thank someone for something they did for you if you don't even remember it? Can you explain how Jesus is going to receive praise for dying for our sins if he takes away the memory that we ever sinned in the first place?

All through Scripture,  what does man/mankind/ men do ?  They oppose Yahweh.  Using "common sense" or knowledge or wisdom "of the flesh", the old nature.

Yahweh never says the old nature can know or grasp or comprehend His Word, Heaven, or anything Spiritual and True.

Not even can men comprehend Jesus !  Remember men oppose Jesus !   The Messiah, Who would save them,  men hate and oppose, without reason !

So also us, His disciples, men hate us, and seek our death daily (as written: we all are as sheep led to slaughter daily) .

[simplejeff]

13 minutes ago, Xethea said:

I do believe the Bible. The fact here is, the Bible doesn't tell you everything or always give understanding alone. The Bible tells us the result in heaven, but doesn't say how come it can and will be that way. I want to understand how it can be without sorrow and what would be keeping us from sinning again. Lucifer didn't have to be a sinner to sin. They're sad no such things involving sin anywhere, but he still did in God's kingdom. But the answer to that is easier to understand than this. 

 

I believe what the Bible says, what im thinking about isn't looking for an answer to disagree with the Bible, but rather to understand it more and come closer to the Lord. 

This is true - partly.   The Bible does not give understanding to those who read it.  The religious leaders and others who knew / read/ were taught every Sabbath Scripture ever since birth ,  still sought to kill Jesus , and to silence Jesus' followers.

As Yochanan the immerser proclaimed:  No man can receive (understand, grasp, have) anything UNLESS THE FATHER REVEALS IT FROM HEAVEN.

Likewise JESUS PRAISED THE FATHER IN HEAVEN - "Great thanksgiving and praise to You ABBA YAHWEH,  for REVEALING SALVATION and everything (EVERYTHING) concerning SALVATION ....."     ..... for thus it is YOUR GOOD PLEASURE!

 

to little children.

 

And again, Jesus Says,   if anyone wants to enter heaven, they must have a pure heart, and they must become as little children.

[simplejeff]

6 hours ago, Xethea said:

There's no other way. Either you remember or you don't. 

Smile gently .... .... .... does it matter what men say or what men remember or what men think or what men do ?

Yahweh says all of that is temporary, here today, gone tomorrow, right ? 

What Yahweh says,  what Yahweh Does,  THAT is what is important, and eternal.

He Remembers you Xethea ,  with compassion,  with perfect mercy,  with perfect love,  perfect wisdom,  perfect knowledge,  and with perfect forgiveness for all your sin.  It is all removed in Christ Jesus,  further than East is from West,   and cast into the deepest sea,   where even God forgets it, as He Says in His Word.   Yes,  He forgets it.   You can too.  (what is impossible for humans,  is easy for God) .   We humans CAN forgive AND forget,  as Yahweh Says.  As Yahweh accomplishes all this as we trust and rely on Him, today, and always, and forever.

 

(even little children ,  one or two or three years old,  often FORGET SIN , even against them, within 15 minutes,  or less - so carefree, clean conscience,  pure hearts, when they are raised right as God Says.  They don't even "TRY" to forget - it just never occurs to them to remember !! )

So don't remind God of sin - Instead,  along with Him,  forget it, once it is washed clean by Jesus' Blood.

Edited February 22, 2019 by simplejeff

[Michael37]

14 minutes ago, Xethea said:

8 minutes ago, Xethea said:

The thing about this, is you cannot say what the bible says about this. Because it doesn't say it is true, but it doesn't say it's false either. 

But it's just common sense. If you lose memory of something that happened, how can you thank someone for something they did for you if you don't even remember it? Can you explain how Jesus is going to receive praise for dying for our sins if he takes away the memory that we ever sinned in the first place?

Okay but that still doesn't answer the question. That just points out something else. 

If the memory that we were ever sinners is gone,  then Jesus cannot receive true honest praise from us for his sacrifice on the cross. 

Does that sound like God would want it to be that way? 

X, you are fixedly trying to impose temporal reality on eternal reality. When we get to heaven the things of earth fade away. We will worship because of who God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are in eternity, the intention of God to restore that which was lost in Eden will be fulfilled. Rather than giving Jesus a constant reminder of the cause of sin and His suffering for it as the Lamb that was slain, it is clear that the victory manifest in our redemption and the conquering of death which is the last enemy, and there being no more curse, is in view in heaven. Be still and let the Bible speak of future glory, I beseech you.

Rom 8:18-23
(18)  For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
(19)  For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God.
(20)  For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope;
(21)  because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
(22)  For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now.
(23)  Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body.
 

Rev 4:8-11
(8)  The four living creatures, each having six wings, were full of eyes around and within. And they do not rest day or night, saying: "Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, Who was and is and is to come!"
(9)  Whenever the living creatures give glory and honor and thanks to Him who sits on the throne, who lives forever and ever,
(10)  the twenty-four elders fall down before Him who sits on the throne and worship Him who lives forever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying:
(11)  "You are worthy, O Lord, To receive glory and honor and power; For You created all things, And by Your will they exist and were created."
Rev 5:8-14
(8)  Now when He had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each having a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.
(9)  And they sang a new song, saying: "You are worthy to take the scroll, And to open its seals; For You were slain, And have redeemed us to God by Your blood Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,
(10)  And have made us kings and priests to our God; And we shall reign on the earth."
(11)  Then I looked, and I heard the voice of many angels around the throne, the living creatures, and the elders; and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands,
(12)  saying with a loud voice: "Worthy is the Lamb who was slain To receive power and riches and wisdom, And strength and honor and glory and blessing!"
(13)  And every creature which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, I heard saying: "Blessing and honor and glory and power Be to Him who sits on the throne, And to the Lamb, forever and ever!"
(14)  Then the four living creatures said, "Amen!" And the twenty-four elders fell down and worshiped Him who lives forever and ever.
 

[Xethea]

22 hours ago, simplejeff said:

No,  there will be no disgust like that in heaven in the life to come, according to all Scripture.

In this life,  we learn to abhor all sin, and abhor the promotion of sin, and the false teachers are put out/ exposed - not tolerated in the assembly of Ekklesia.  (as written in Scripture,  always let it be as written).

Doesn't Yahweh in the Bible say that HE FORGETS OUR SIN ?   I think so,  maybe many time in Scripture.

Don't Yahweh's messengers say to live , on purpose, as Yahweh our Father in Heaven wants - "forgetting what lies behind , pressing forward to what lies ahead " ? 

Even more amazing , to have "the mind of Christ " ! ! !  (now today, on earth, as is His Will in heaven)

 

Edited February 23, 2019 by Xethea

[Xethea]

21 hours ago, Michael37 said:

X, you are fixedly trying to impose temporal reality on eternal reality. When we get to heaven the things of earth fade away. We will worship because of who God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are in eternity, the intention of God to restore that which was lost in Eden will be fulfilled. Rather than giving Jesus a constant reminder of the cause of sin and His suffering for it as the Lamb that was slain, it is clear that the victory manifest in our redemption and the conquering of death which is the last enemy, and there being no more curse, is in view in heaven. Be still and let the Bible speak of future glory, I beseech you.

Rom 8:18-23
(18)  For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
(19)  For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God.
(20)  For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope;
(21)  because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
(22)  For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now.
(23)  Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body.
 

Rev 4:8-11
(8)  The four living creatures, each having six wings, were full of eyes around and within. And they do not rest day or night, saying: "Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, Who was and is and is to come!"
(9)  Whenever the living creatures give glory and honor and thanks to Him who sits on the throne, who lives forever and ever,
(10)  the twenty-four elders fall down before Him who sits on the throne and worship Him who lives forever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying:
(11)  "You are worthy, O Lord, To receive glory and honor and power; For You created all things, And by Your will they exist and were created."
Rev 5:8-14
(8)  Now when He had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each having a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.
(9)  And they sang a new song, saying: "You are worthy to take the scroll, And to open its seals; For You were slain, And have redeemed us to God by Your blood Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,
(10)  And have made us kings and priests to our God; And we shall reign on the earth."
(11)  Then I looked, and I heard the voice of many angels around the throne, the living creatures, and the elders; and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands,
(12)  saying with a loud voice: "Worthy is the Lamb who was slain To receive power and riches and wisdom, And strength and honor and glory and blessing!"
(13)  And every creature which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, I heard saying: "Blessing and honor and glory and power Be to Him who sits on the throne, And to the Lamb, forever and ever!"
(14)  Then the four living creatures said, "Amen!" And the twenty-four elders fell down and worshiped Him who lives forever and ever.
 

 

Edited February 23, 2019 by Xethea

[Jayne]

8 minutes ago, Xethea said:

So you believe then that God DOESN'T know EVERYTHING?  Is that correct?  Because if he completely forgets something, which is the reality of history of when our existence began, he will not have memory of that and therefore he won't be an ALL KNOWING God. Just maybe a 99.9% knowing God then or something similar. Is that who you believe God is? Your statement seems to point to that. I believe in a God who knows and will always know all things, the good and the bad. It's just funny, if I listen to you people, most of you, I have to think more lowly of who my God is. 

I'm not sure why you are thinking lowly of God if he "forgets".  It's his choice.  He is holy and sin, even in remembrance, is not holy.  He consciously makes the choice put it away from his as far as the east if from the west.

About forgetting....I was molested as a child....around 8 and 9.  It was a family member.  Do I remember?  I can if I choose to.  But I don't choose to.  I forgave my molester.  I still forgive him.  He died when I was 16.

I make the conscious choice to remove it from my heart and mind.  I dealt with it and it rarely, if ever comes to my thoughts.  When it does, I push it away.  

God can do anything - even "forget" our sins and still be omniscient.

I can't explain it - I can only accept it and I do.

[Xethea]

18 hours ago, Jayne said:

I'm not sure why you are thinking lowly of God if he "forgets".  It's his choice.  He is holy and sin, even in remembrance, is not holy.  He consciously makes the choice put it away from his as far as the east if from the west.

About forgetting....I was molested as a child....around 8 and 9.  It was a family member.  Do I remember?  I can if I choose to.  But I don't choose to.  I forgave my molester.  I still forgive him.  He died when I was 16.

I make the conscious choice to remove it from my heart and mind.  I dealt with it and it rarely, if ever comes to my thoughts.  When it does, I push it away.  

God can do anything - even "forget" our sins and still be omniscient.

I can't explain it - I can only accept it and I do.

 

Edited February 23, 2019 by Xethea

[Xethea]

18 hours ago, Jayne said:

I'm not sure why you are thinking lowly of God if he "forgets".  It's his choice.  He is holy and sin, even in remembrance, is not holy.  He consciously makes the choice put it away from his as far as the east if from the west.

About forgetting....I was molested as a child....around 8 and 9.  It was a family member.  Do I remember?  I can if I choose to.  But I don't choose to.  I forgave my molester.  I still forgive him.  He died when I was 16.

I make the conscious choice to remove it from my heart and mind.  I dealt with it and it rarely, if ever comes to my thoughts.  When it does, I push it away.  

God can do anything - even "forget" our sins and still be omniscient.

I can't explain it - I can only accept it and I do.

 

Edited February 23, 2019 by Xethea

[Michael37]

18 minutes ago, Xethea said:

I am even talkin about what God remembers. God is Not of this Earth. God is of himself and always has been and always will be. He has claimed to know all the past present and future. Before even the world began. Therefore no I'm not talking about this reality of this world I'm talking about eternity before world even began. We are talking about God's memory as well not just our own. So are you claiming that God does not know everything that he will forget things? Therefore he would not be an all-knowing God. Is that the god you believe in? And do you not realize I've already mentioned two other people, if we forget about Sin as if it never existed then once the point in worshipping Jesus Christ anymore? Everyone on Earth who's a Christian claims the important thing is the gospel because Jesus Christ died for us. If we are to forget that sin ever existed, then we might as well forget that the Lord died for us because we don't even know what's in it and we don't even know that he died for us that we needed it because we have no clue that sin ever existed therefore we would have no memory that we were ever saved. Therefore how could we worship the Lord? I feel very confident you guys are missing the big picture here. It's like when we get to heaven we're going to be living a lie. That we can just be ourselves that we have to erase things from our memories in order to be living happily together. Including even forgot to be happy he has to erase his own memory

You are in error with your doctrine, X. You are in serious need of correction on the whole subject of soteriology (salvation). I say this not to attack or demean but to warn. You are going down a dangerous road into heresy if you stubbornly pursue your assertions and will earn all the chastenings that apply to heretics who preach "another gospel".

What God knows of our old man, the body of sin we had, our previous sinful nature, is irrelevant to our condition as born again new creations. Please don't even contemplate dragging the dead, rotting, putrid carcase of you old sinful, corrupt self into God's Presence. There is no place in heaven for such an unholy thing. Why would you behave contrary to God's Will as if the blood of Christ did not cover you and wash you clean of all sin? Why would you remain attached to all the evils of the world, the flesh, and the devil when in Christ they are done away with? Such nonsense is profane and contrary to the truth of the Gospel of Salvation.  

Rom 6:6
(6)  knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin.

Eph 4:20-24
(20)  But you have not so learned Christ,
(21)  if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught by Him, as the truth is in Jesus:
(22)  that you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts,
(23)  and be renewed in the spirit of your mind,
(24)  and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness.

Gal 2:17-21
(17)  "But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is Christ therefore a minister of sin? Certainly not!
(18)  For if I build again those things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.
(19)  For I through the law died to the law that I might live to God.
(20)  I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.
(21)  I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain."
2Co 5:17-21
(17)  Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.
(18)  Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation,
(19)  that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
(20)  Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore you on Christ's behalf, be reconciled to God.
(21)  For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
1Pe 1:18-25
(18)  knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, like silver or gold, from your aimless conduct received by tradition from your fathers,
(19)  but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot.
(20)  He indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you
(21)  who through Him believe in God, who raised Him from the dead and gave Him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God.
(22)  Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart,
(23)  having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever,
(24)  because "ALL FLESH IS AS GRASS, AND ALL THE GLORY OF MAN AS THE FLOWER OF THE GRASS. THE GRASS WITHERS, AND ITS FLOWER FALLS AWAY,
(25)  BUT THE WORD OF THE LORD ENDURES FOREVER." Now this is the word which by the gospel was preached to you.