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Marilyn C

REVELATION: Vision 2. The Enthroned Son of Man.

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2 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi iamlamad,

I agree that Jesus ascended to the Father`s right hand, as God`s word tells us. And that throne is `far above all.` It is NOT in the created order that God made, it is in the highest. Whereas in the angelic realm God the Father is setting up, appointing His Son to have rulership visibly there. Let us compare the two thrones.

A. GOD`S THRONE : Highest heavens - Father and Son, (& Holy Spirit). `Christ....seated ...at the right hand .....far above all..` (Eph. 1: 20 & 21)

B. THE SONS OWN THRONE: Underneath. The angelic realm. A throne is `set` up by the Godhead.  `a throne set in heaven....many angels around the throne...` (Rev. 4: 2,   5: 11)

These are the two thrones that the Lord spoke of -

`To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on MY THRONE, as I overcame and sat down with My Father on HIS THRONE.` (Rev. 3: 21)

If you want to discuss then we need to look at scripture and not just opinions.

Marilyn.

BTW we need to remember that the Lord is ruler in both places as He is part of the Godhead. The Father desires and planned that His Son would have all rulership in the created order, visibly for all to see.

Rev. 3:

 

I disagree..but you are right, we must go by scripture. Could it be the throne Jesus is talking about is His future throne on earth?

Is there any way to prove which or whose throne it is in Rev. 4?

Edited by iamlamad

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42 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

I disagree..but you are right, we must go by scripture. Could it be the throne Jesus is talking about is His future throne on earth?

Is there any way to prove which or whose throne it is in Rev. 4?

Hi iamlamad,

Good question there bro. Let`s see who is acclaimed.

`...the 24 elders fall down before Him who sits on the throne and worship Him who lives forever and ever, and cast there crowns before the throne, saying, " You are worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power; for you created all things, and by your will they exist and were created."` (Rev. 4: 10 & 11)

We know that the Father and Son are equal, in unity and of one mind, however when they function there is an order. The source is at the Godhead, the Father initiates, the Son administers and the Holy Spirit is the energising force.

So we know in the beginning God created - the Father initiated, then the Son administered  -

`For by Him, (Christ) all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether THRONES or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were CREATED THROUGH HIM AND FOR HIM.` (Col. 1: 16 & 17)

Thus we see that Christ created all things, - thrones.....for Him. It is the enthroned Son of Man we see on this throne, that the Father has appointed in the angelic realm, and the 24 elders acclaim Him. Note, there are thrones, (powers & authorities) in every realm all under the Lord Jesus Christ.

There are more reasons which I will write about also.

Marilyn.

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When John was caught up into heaven he saw a throne that was being set up.  This throne was not there before. It is not the eternal throne of the Father, but a throne being set up. `Set up ` meaning appointed.

 

So what type of rulership is given this throne?

We see that it is for a King - a throne, (power and authority), and also that it is for a High Priest - the gems stones of the High Priest`s breastplate, (Jasper and Sardius, being the First and Last, and encompassing all inbetween.)

So the throne is for a KIngPriest. These two offices have never been together, they were always separate. Now we see that this person appointed to this high rulership is a KingPriest, a High priest at that.

Now where there is a High Priest, there are other priests, and they would also need to be of that order of KingPriests.

 

Who have been told that they would be kingpriests?  

`To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood, and has made us kings and priests to God His Father.` (Rev. 1: 6)

`But you are a chosen generation, a royal  (king)priesthood…` (1 Peter 2: 9)

`To Him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne..` (Rev. 3: 21)

So we can see that to the Body of Christ, the believers have been promised that they would sit with Lord on His throne, as kingpriests, for He is a kingpriest.

 

So can we see these kingpriests with the Lord around His throne?

`Around  the throne were 24 thrones, and on the thrones I saw 24 elders sitting clothed in white robes; and they had crowns of gold on their heads.` (Rev. 4: 4)

`and they sang a new song…..You….have made us kings and priests to our God..` (Rev. 5: 10)

Thus we see that the 24 elders represent the whole Body of Christ, and as kingpriests, are part of the ceremony of the Lord being enthroned as the King (High)priest in the angelic realm. What a glorious, momentous celebration that will be!

Marilyn.

 

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51 minutes ago, SelahSong said:

Greetings!

I have a few notes on chapter 4 I’d like to share:  Regarding the jasper and sardius stones in v.3, they were the first and last stones on the breastplates of the Levitical priesthood, letting us know that the One sitting on the Throne is our Heavenly Father, The First and The Last.  (Ezekiel 1:24…)

4 living creatures:

Lion/Judah/East 

Calf/Ephraim/West

Man/Ruben/South

Flying eagle/Dan/North  

(see Numbers Chapter 2)

 

I believe that the 24 elders most likely represent the 12 apostles and the 12 patriarchs of the 12 tribes of Israel.  

 

-Selah

 

Hi Selahsong,

Good to see your comments and scripture. So just a few comments you may want to consider.

1. Ezekiel 1: 24 - 28 actually describes the glorified Lord Jesus as we see Him in Rev. 1: 12 - 16.

2. The glorified Lord Jesus says that He is the first and Last. (Rev. 1:11)

3. The 12 Apostles of the Lamb and the OT saints (including the Patriarchs) have their inheritance in the New Jerusalem. (Matt. 19: 28   & Heb. 11: 16) This comes lower down and will not be in the angelic realm. (Rev. 21: 2)

regards, Marilyn.

BTW We need to remember that Jesus is the High Priest, NOT the Father.

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Hi Selahsong,

Thank you for your contribution. Now I have been taught by good teachers, so this is not just my thoughts. However we wont compare teachers but look at what we can agree on and then the scripture you highlighted in Ezekiel.

Now I agree with a lot of the above comments in your post -the 24 elders representing the Body of Christ, the rainbow - the Covenant, the seven lamps of fire - the sevenfold Spirit, and the Father being present. So we have the Father and the Holy Spirit so where is the Son? Let`s look at Ezekiel.

`And above the firmament over their heads was the likeness of a throne, in appearance like a sapphire stone; on the likeness of the throne was a likeness with the appearance of a Man high above it.

Also from the appearance of His waist and upwards I saw, as it were, the colour of amber with the appearance of fire all around it; and from the appearance of His waist and downwards I saw, as it were, the appearance of fire with brightness all around.

Like the appearance of a rainbow in a cloud on a rainy day, so was the appearance of the brightness all around it. This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the Lord.` (Ez. 2: 26 - 28)

So we see there is a MAN on the throne, and a description of the man. God the Father, is not a man, but a Spirit. (John 4: 24 `God is a Spirit..` ) Thus the ONE on the throne is the Son, and the Father is there appointing Him. 

Marilyn.

 

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20 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Selahsong,

Thank you for your contribution. Now I have been taught by good teachers, so this is not just my thoughts. However we wont compare teachers but look at what we can agree on and then the scripture you highlighted in Ezekiel.

Now I agree with a lot of the above comments in your post -the 24 elders representing the Body of Christ, the rainbow - the Covenant, the seven lamps of fire - the sevenfold Spirit, and the Father being present. So we have the Father and the Holy Spirit so where is the Son? Let`s look at Ezekiel.

`And above the firmament over their heads was the likeness of a throne, in appearance like a sapphire stone; on the likeness of the throne was a likeness with the appearance of a Man high above it.

Also from the appearance of His waist and upwards I saw, as it were, the colour of amber with the appearance of fire all around it; and from the appearance of His waist and downwards I saw, as it were, the appearance of fire with brightness all around.

Like the appearance of a rainbow in a cloud on a rainy day, so was the appearance of the brightness all around it. This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the Lord.` (Ez. 2: 26 - 28)

So we see there is a MAN on the throne, and a description of the man. God the Father, is not a man, but a Spirit. (John 4: 24 `God is a Spirit..` ) Thus the ONE on the throne is the Son, and the Father is there appointing Him. 

Marilyn.

 

The 24 elders CANNOT be the Church. The candlesticks were seen in the throne room in chapter 5. They are "representations" or symbols of the Church; AND in the letters we see that they "may still be removed" for disobedience. The only logical conclusion must be that chapter 4 represents 30ad.  The proof is in the details given. We see the door opened in chapter 4 which matches Scripture describing the start of the Church Age and CLOSED at the rapture (the end of it). 

In chapter 5 we see the "lamb that was slain" RISING UP "in the midst of the throne". What else could this be than the resurrection?

The four beasts are parallels of Ezek 1. The "spirit of God" was essentially bound and restricted - likely representing the Jewish people and staying with them and following them. After the resurrection, Jesus was said to have "conquered death" and this entitled Him to a crown (Only one at this point), later He is seen with MANY crowns. The beasts (spirits) are now unfettered, PLUS the lamps also represent "spirits of God" so now (30ad) there are 11 'spirits' instead of the four in one from the OT. 

The 24 elders also have a crown (conquered sin and death). I like the explanation that showed the 24 books of the OT as the most plausible. 

The only thing left is the sea of crystal. Later on (start of the bowl judgments) it is described as being mingled with fire.

As a final note, I believe something missing in all these discussions is that Jesus "was the word, and the word was Jesus". Scripture itself (the written word) was/is the center of everything. The throne, the glory of God, & the spirits (the four beasts) were seen "in the midst of and all around the throne" along with the lamb that was slain. 

 

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I think it would be good to look at the details of this one on the throne. The Prophet Ezekiel saw a Man who would have the throne. (Ez. 1: 26) The Prophet John describes this Man -`and He who sat there was like a jasper and a sardius stone in appearance.` (Rev. 4: 3)

These two gem stones on the High Priest`s breastplate are the `first and last` ones. The Lord Jesus Christ tells us that He is `the First and Last,` (Rev. 1: 17). As the First, Christ is the creator of all things, visible and invisible, (Col. 1: 16) and as the `Last`, He finishes all things in heaven and on earth.

The beauty and richness of these jewels enrich our appreciation of Christ`s glory while their particular meaning reveal Christ`s authority. Being on the priest`s breastplate they point to Christ being the heavenly High Priest.

 

Christ the Conqueror.        (Rev. 4: 3)

  `And He who sat there was like a jasper.... stone` (Rev. 4: 3)

 Jasper – for the tribe of Naphtali – meaning `I have prevailed.` (Gen. 30: 8)

 Prevail – to gain the victory, to conquer.  (The Concise English Dictionary)

 

The Jasper stone was the last on the breastplate of the High Priest. It represented the tribe of Naphtali whose name means, to prevail, to conquer. Christ was the last Adam & He prevailed over the world, the flesh & the devil. He has secured the supreme victory over the greatest foe.     

`For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil.` (1 John 3: 8)  
 

Jesus fulfilled the Father`s will in all aspects & finally laid down His own life as an offering for the sins of the whole world.                                                                                    

 `...nailed ...to the cross. Having disarmed principalities & powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it.`(Col. 2: 15)

 

The `blood-red,` colour of the gem indicates the priceless cost of our redemption – Christ`s precious blood.

 `Christ......with His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption. `(Heb. 9: 12)

                                                                                                                         

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Let`s look further at what the gem stones reveal of Christ. This is what I see -

 

Christ the Righteous King.  (Rev. 4: 3)

 

 `And He who sat there was like .....a Sardius stone.`    (Rev. 4: 3)

 

 Sardius – for the tribe of Judah – meaning `to use the hand.` (Gen. 29: 35)

Judah – from the Heb. `yadah,` meaning to use the hand, indicating power & dominion, (a sceptre)

 

This stone was first on the High Priest`s breastplate. `The first row shall be sardius..` (Ex. 28: 17) Sardius represented the ruling tribe of Judah, from which Jesus was born. `The sceptre shall not depart from Judah..` (Gen. 49: 10 )

 

Christ was born King of the Jews & King of Israel.

 

`The book of the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the son of David...`(Matt.1: 1)  

 `Where is He who has been born King of the Jews?`   (Matt. 2: 2)

`You are the King of Israel.`  (John 1: 49)

 

The Lord is the only King that is a High Priest as well..

 

`...Jesus, having become High Priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek - King of Righteousness...King of Peace.` (Heb. 6: 20   7: 2)

 

These two offices - King and Priest, are separate in the lower realms. Only the Lord is worthy and has the ability to function in such high positions - as King and High Priest.

 

I also note that this gem stone was first on the breastplate, indicating that the Lord is the `First` and last. As First he is the creator of all things, visible and invisible, and thrones... They were made by Him and for Him.

 

`I am the First and the Last..` (Rev. 1: 17)

`For by Him, (Christ) all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.` (Col. 1: 16)

 

 

 

 

 

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So what about the rainbow like an emerald. This is how I see it -

 

Christ the Covenant. (Rev. 4: 3)

 

 `and there was a rainbow around the throne, in appearance like an emerald.` (Rev. 4: 3)

 

 God declared that the rainbow would be His visible sign for His Covenant with man.

 

 `I set My rainbow in the cloud, & it shall be for the sign of the covenant between Me & the earth.`(Gen. 9: 13)  

 

God then describes this `rainbow,` like unto an emerald. The emerald gem was on the breastplate of the High Priest & represented the tribe of Reuben, who was the firstborn son of Israel. 

 

` Leah conceived & bore a son,  & she called His name Reuben; ...` (Gen. 29: 32)

Reuben – Heb. word `Ruwben` meaning  See a son.

 

The Lord Jesus Christ is God`s only Son & He is called the `Firstborn....` The firstborn is not of birth but of manifestation. Christ is the first, the pre-eminent one.

 

`He is the image of the invisible God, the first-born over all creation.`(Col. 1: 15)

 

 

It is through Christ that God`s Covenant, God`s plan, is fulfilled because Christ Himself is

 the surety.

 

 `God said, `I will give .....You (Jesus) as a covenant to the people...` (Isa. 49: 8)

 

 

 

 

 

 

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On 3/1/2019 at 8:56 AM, Spock said:

I see Jesus entering that throne room at 5:6.  I do not see him there from 4:1 till 5:6.  I believe he must have been on Earth at this time John received this vision, which must be from the past (around 30 AD or so).,

You are going down the wrong rabbit hole. That is the way people get taken down wrong paths. But then again it confirms your "MID TRIB THEORY". Even though its not factual. As a matter of fact I shake my head at people who come at me with that. No one ever answers my question, so where was Jesus at ? It say no man was able to open the Seals in Heaven OR ON EARTH or UNDER THE EARTH.................That is because Jesus needed to be seen as THE LAMB. 

It has nothing to do with Jesus being on earth when this happened. It's an easy opening for Satan to come in and confuse, but it's just not factual. Go this direction at your own peril brother. It's not the truth. Jesus Raptures us to Heaven in Rev. 4:1. 

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