Who me Posted March 6, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 17 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,298 Content Per Day: 1.73 Reputation: 1,684 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/27/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted March 6, 2019 17 hours ago, Still Alive said: I not only don't "know" either of those things, I don't believe either of them. Yet that is what the bible teaches. Jesus talked in John3:16-18 about those who have life and those who were already condemned. You may not like what the bible teaches but you have to deal with its teaching, either to accept or to reject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted March 6, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.24 Reputation: 9,760 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted March 6, 2019 11 hours ago, Unveiling Bible Truth said: all I can do is tell you the truth, it is up to God whether you believe it of not(John 6:37, 44-45, 65). Many are called, but few are chosen. It is interesting how you point to John 6 above, yet hint in an earlier post that the lake of fire is basically for giving the lost a second chance at salvation. Which is it? Was everyone that ever lived chosen by God for salvation or do you believe we have a choice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still Alive Posted March 6, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,024 Content Per Day: 1.34 Reputation: 1,224 Days Won: 3 Joined: 02/05/2018 Status: Online Share Posted March 6, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, Who me said: Yet that is what the bible teaches. Jesus talked in John3:16-18 about those who have life and those who were already condemned. You may not like what the bible teaches but you have to deal with its teaching, either to accept or to reject. With those sentences I firmly agree. In fact, I use John 3:16 to make my case often. 17 and 18 only amplify it. Edited March 6, 2019 by Still Alive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uber Genius Posted March 6, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 36 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 657 Content Per Day: 0.33 Reputation: 244 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/05/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted March 6, 2019 5 hours ago, Who me said: You may not like what the bible teaches but you have to deal with its teaching, either to accept or to reject. This is not how we engage scripture. We don't sit back and grab a few texts and then say "take it or leave it." We do exegete passages in context including whether they are part of the Old Covenant or New. We do gather all passages in the Bible properly exegeted. We do put forth all hypotheses that explain those texts. We do engage the reasons for and against each hypothesis to determine which one, if any, has the most explanatory depth and breadth to account for the Biblical data. That is roughly the method of systematic theology. Your strategy above is an appeal to simplicity that is not evident. It is a rhetorical appeal that cherry-picks verses that help you case while ignoring others that don't. The process described above leads to historically to things like the development of the doctrine of the trinity and the nature of Christ. I would stick to the time-honored process and avoid the easy rhetorical tricks in favor of everyone gaining knowledge about the strength of the various inferences. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still Alive Posted March 6, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,024 Content Per Day: 1.34 Reputation: 1,224 Days Won: 3 Joined: 02/05/2018 Status: Online Share Posted March 6, 2019 23 hours ago, missmuffet said: Pick up the Bible and really read it. Read it literally. You will not miss all the passages that say an unbeliever will go to hell. You are giving the words in the Bible your own meaning. That is dangerous. I strongly agree with you that the bible must be STUDIED, not merely read. However, a literal reading can be challenging if on is using any of the english translations as they are all flawed to one degree or another. And my tag line speaks to why one should be careful about reading some texts "literally". Frankly, different people mean different things when they say "literally". It is also important to note that the word "hell" never left Jesus' lips. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still Alive Posted March 6, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,024 Content Per Day: 1.34 Reputation: 1,224 Days Won: 3 Joined: 02/05/2018 Status: Online Share Posted March 6, 2019 15 hours ago, frienduff thaylorde said: This is a blatant false hood . the fiery trials of our faith are what TRUE belivers experience . The lake of fire is for all who rejected Christ . I seen this teaching before . I wonder if you are part of that group . Know anyone named pete or gilbert . Gilbert turned pete away from the truth . And they then turned full force against me . Pete was scared , the spirit in him was scared and knew it could not counter the truth and thus they had me banned for life This man gilbert seduced pete . I did all to warn pete where this would lead and what ideals would spring from it . He took not my warning and gilbert seduced him . Well, I will continue to expose it , no matter what the cost . Yall need to cease from this . And instead focus on the gospel that saves men FROM that lake of fire . Instead of preaching a semi universal salvation that saves none , Start Preaching JESUS as the ONLY savoir . Let no man take heed to your version of the lake of fire . You and all who are adding to and taking from that book , are in serious grave danger . Stead of trying to sugar coat with happy endngs , GO back to THE GOSPLE which keeps one from that lake of fire . I don't agree with him on every point either, but I do think he makes some valid points. I'm a believer in Annihilationism. The second most likely, to me, is universalism. 9 years ago I utterly rejected the "Eternal Conscious Suffering" (ECT) teaching. There is no hell, but there is Hades, Sheol, Gehenna (as an analogy) and, of course, Tartarus (strictly for spiritual beings, e.g. angels and demons). The lake of fire is pulled right out of 1 Enoch, which is not cannonical, but something every Christian should read, if only because the apostles quoted it in our bibles. In a real sense it became a part of scripture that way. Parts of it, anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still Alive Posted March 6, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,024 Content Per Day: 1.34 Reputation: 1,224 Days Won: 3 Joined: 02/05/2018 Status: Online Share Posted March 6, 2019 14 hours ago, Unveiling Bible Truth said: So your version of the good news is that the majority of mankind(100 billion people, from the beginning of man) will be tormented for all eternity. Tell me, how is that good news, that is not what Jesus taught. Jesus said that all sins would be forgiven of men, even the sin against the holy spirit, just not in this age or the next(Matt 12:31-32) Since all sin is forgiven, how is your eternal punishment feasible? I heard someone describe that message this way: Imagine this is a soccer match, and Satan is the coach of one team and Jesus is the coach of the other. the souls of men are "points". So, according to the bible, Satan wins, 5-1, but Jesus beats him up in the parking lot after the game, so Jesus wins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still Alive Posted March 6, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,024 Content Per Day: 1.34 Reputation: 1,224 Days Won: 3 Joined: 02/05/2018 Status: Online Share Posted March 6, 2019 (edited) 15 hours ago, frienduff thaylorde said: This is a blatant false hood . the fiery trials of our faith are what TRUE belivers experience . The lake of fire is for all who rejected Christ . I seen this teaching before . I wonder if you are part of that group . Know anyone named pete or gilbert . Gilbert turned pete away from the truth . And they then turned full force against me . Pete was scared , the spirit in him was scared and knew it could not counter the truth and thus they had me banned for life This man gilbert seduced pete . I did all to warn pete where this would lead and what ideals would spring from it . He took not my warning and gilbert seduced him . Well, I will continue to expose it , no matter what the cost . Yall need to cease from this . And instead focus on the gospel that saves men FROM that lake of fire . Instead of preaching a semi universal salvation that saves none , Start Preaching JESUS as the ONLY savoir . Let no man take heed to your version of the lake of fire . You and all who are adding to and taking from that book , are in serious grave danger . Stead of trying to sugar coat with happy endngs , GO back to THE GOSPLE which keeps one from that lake of fire . I believe he IS using the gospel. The problem is that you've only stated an opinion without supporting it, and discussed a couple of guys many here have probably never heard of. I'm with you regarding the "universalist" message. I do entertain it much more willingly than I'll entertain the ECT message. However, I only entertain it because I know the definition of "eternity" in the bible is a bit squishy and derived from a language (Greek) that has no word for it. Our english bibles use it all the time when referring to events that were most definitely NOT eternal. And we do to. When I was at DMV renewing my tags I had to wait "forever". Usually what the bible discusses is age or ages. Wouldn't it be fascinating, after we die, to discover that we only know of a string of five ages and, actually, there are infinite ages before the creation of earth and infinite ages following the creation of the new heaven and new earth - and that Jesus really did save ALL men, but only those that accepted the free gift were able to avoid the next age(s) of learning? I'm not saying I believe that, but if it were true, it would violate no scripture that I've come across yet. Edited March 6, 2019 by Still Alive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarrenJClark Posted March 6, 2019 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 85 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 10 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/17/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted March 6, 2019 On 3/6/2019 at 5:44 AM, missmuffet said: Pick up the Bible and really read it. Read it literally. You will not miss all the passages that say an unbeliever will go to hell. You are giving the words in the Bible your own meaning. That is dangerous. I am reading Matthew 10:28 for literally what it says. Are you saying that you are not reading it literally? If you want other verses that, when read literally teach the same kind of thing see Psalm 37; Isa 66:24 Malachi 4:1 Matt 3:12; 13:40-42; 18:8-9; 25:46; John 3:16; Rom 6:23; 2 Thess 1:9-10; and, Rev 14:11. Just read them literally for what they teach and you will become a conditionalist (well you should if you are just going to go with what is literally taught there). I offered a reading of Matt 10:28 that demonstrates an exegetically robust case that Jesus was teaching the wicked will be killed in Gehenna. Do you have any reason from the context of Matthew 10:28 to disagree with my interpretation? Anything? If not then your comments about literalism my reading being dangerous is simply your unsupported opinion. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarrenJClark Posted March 6, 2019 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 85 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 10 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/17/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted March 6, 2019 On 3/6/2019 at 5:49 AM, JustPassingThru said: And in the love of Christ may I add to what missmuffet said and humbly suggest you depend on only the Holy Spirit to give you His meaning of what He wrote, ...He is the author. Lord bless Check out my response to missmuffet. Why do you think I do not depend on the HS? Why could the HS not have led me to read Matt 10:28 literally for what it says? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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