To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord

[backontrack]

I know there is a lot of controversy with this verse 2 Corinthians 5:8 but how can one explain this when Jesus himself said to the thief on the cross today you will be with me in paradise. He is no different from us a forgiven sinner.

The rich man was on the other side of the gulf and Lazarus in Abrahams bosom was able to see him as he to was in heaven. Luke 16: 19-31

Some say when we die we sleep but above the thief did not sleep! 

[Jayne]

Personally, I do not believe in soul sleep.  I don't believe that it's a biblical concept.  If I'm not mistaken, it's Jehovah's Witness teaching, but don't quote me on that.

As far as the words you cited, "to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord".  That's not in the Bible - well, not written like that.

Paul says in 2 Corinthians 5 that, "So we are always of good courage. We know that while we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord,  for we walk by faith, not by sight. Yes, we are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord. So whether we are at home or away, we make it our aim to please him."

His point being that last line.

But you are right.  Soul sleep isn't Biblical.

[OneLight]

2 Corinthians 5:6-8 NKJV

So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord.  For we walk by faith, not by sight.  We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.

I guess it depends on what version of the bible you are reading ...

[Willa]

Php 1:21  For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.

Php 1:22  If I am to live in the flesh, that means fruitful labor for me. Yet which I shall choose I cannot tell.

Php 1:23  I am hard pressed between the two. My desire is to depart and be with Christ, for that is far better.

Php 1:24  But to remain in the flesh is more necessary on your account.

These verses also speak of immediately being with Christ upon death, otherwise remaining in a rotting corpse is definitely not far better than remaining alive.  Adventists also believe in soul sleep.  They have no real hope.  It is so sad.  

I have friends who are Christian Advent, who also don't believe we go immediately to be with the Lord.  When I told them that my husband is in the Presence of God, he said Well, we hope so.  He couldn't even encourage me in my time of grief!   How sad that is, that he had no comfort to offer those who were suffering.  Maybe its a hangover from the Catholic teaching them about purgatory.  

[Blood Bought 1953]

3 hours ago, Willa said:

Php 1:21  For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.

Php 1:22  If I am to live in the flesh, that means fruitful labor for me. Yet which I shall choose I cannot tell.

Php 1:23  I am hard pressed between the two. My desire is to depart and be with Christ, for that is far better.

Php 1:24  But to remain in the flesh is more necessary on your account.

These verses also speak of immediately being with Christ upon death, otherwise remaining in a rotting corpse is definitely not far better than remaining alive.  Adventists also believe in soul sleep.  They have no real hope.  It is so sad.  

I have friends who are Christian Advent, who also don't believe we go immediately to be with the Lord.  When I told them that my husband is in the Presence of God, he said Well, we hope so.  He couldn't even encourage me in my time of grief!   How sad that is, that he had no comfort to offer those who were suffering.  Maybe its a hangover from the Catholic teaching them about purgatory.  

 

Purgatory?  Grrrrr...........Don’t get me started!  Do a serious study on this damnable doctrine. It will sadden you and make you want to vomit at the same time.......There exists no better way to spit on the Blood Of our Savior.....It makes me glad there is a Hell.....

[BeauJangles]

6 hours ago, Jayne said:

Personally, I do not believe in soul sleep. 

As far as the words you cited, "to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord".  That's not in the Bible - well, not written like that.

Paul says in 2 Corinthians 5 that, "So we are always of good courage. We know that while we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord,  for we walk by faith, not by sight. Yes, we are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord. So whether we are at home or away, we make it our aim to please him."

Soul sleep isn't Biblical.

 

6 hours ago, OneLight said:

2 Corinthians 5:6-8 NKJV

So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord.  For we walk by faith, not by sight.  We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.

I guess it depends on what version of the bible you are reading ...

This is a very interesting comparison here in both versions. It was the understanding, that Christ's sacrifice on the cross, decent, ascend, and final ascension, was a completed work. Therefore, no waiting period between death and appearing unto the Lord. Many theological differences of course, depending on which doctrine one adheres to. Anyway, whether right or wrong, I'd like to think upon passing from this life, my presence will be required before the Almighty. God bless! 

David/BeauJangles   

[Neighbor]

Where is Jesus now, that the dead saints may be with Him?

Last I heard he had gone to prepare a place for us, and would return when His Father said the "place" was done. And that He will come quickly when He comes.

As for today in the flesh  I have the comforter the Holy Spirit within. He restrains the otherwise total horror of the lost of the world and the many minions of Satan.

But should my soul be required of me tonight, where will it be required to go?

To sleep?

To a place of refuge with Christ? Even as He prepares a place for all of us? Is the honey moon cottage in part complete today, and ready  for immediate occupancy, so to speak, for each whose soul is required of them,  even this day?

Have not the souls of those who "sleep", regardless of where they have gone, not been aware of  their own presence all along (in time as we know time), where they are, and aren't they able to communicate one with another about us that are still in the flesh?

Seems to me no one is in their  final place regardless of where anyone is today, whether alive or dead. My mind is inclined to want to jump ahead to the end of ends where there is to be a new heaven and a new earth.

 

Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more.  And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.  And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God. He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.”

 And he who was seated on the throne said, “Behold, I am making all things new.” Also he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.” And he said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. To the thirsty I will give from the spring of the water of life without payment.  The one who conquers will have this heritage, and I will be his God and he will be my son.  But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”

 

[Behold]

"absent from the body, present with the Lord"..........

To understand this, is just to understand that the real you, is not your body.

All your body actually is.......is just a container made from "earth" that you, the real you,  resides inside.

its your "earth suit", that allows you to experience the natural realm.

However, the real you, is the mind-soul-spirit, which is become "born again", and eternally connected to God who is in you and you are "in Christ".

So, if you die today, your body goes to a hole in the ground or back to the earth, and the real you, the eternal you, that is reading what i am writing......=  goes to Jesus and the Father.

At some point later, your body is going to be rejoined to the real you, as a new one, exactly the same as the one Jesus has once He was resurrected, and you'll live in it again, tho it will be "changed" in the twinkling of an eye and will have put off "corruption".

Edited March 9, 2019 by Behold

[Jayne]

11 hours ago, OneLight said:

2 Corinthians 5:6-8 NKJV

So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord.  For we walk by faith, not by sight.  We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.

I guess it depends on what version of the bible you are reading ...

Your version does not say the declarative and independent statement "To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord" either.  When people make an independent sentence out of a dependent phrase and change one of the words that can open the door for disagreement of what the text means.  

When people cite that misquoted text, as most people in funerals do, they are saying that the Bible definitely states that the last breath taken here and the first breath taken with God are virtually simultaneous.  That may be so.  I hope it is so.

But that's not what the text says.  He says the we can be confident that when we die that we will go to be with the Lord, but whether we are here or there we should strive to please God.  Paul's text does not give a definitive time frame of the distant between life here and life there and that isn't what he is talking about anyway.  He is talking about hope for a future and obedience here and there.

I just am too much of a stickler on quoting scripture correctly because even the tiniest of variances can alter what is being said.

There's a lot of room for differences of opinion with those little words "is" and "and".  "Is" implies it will definitively happen at the same nanosecond.  "And" implies it will definitively happen - period.

I know, I get it.  Anytime I bring this up - people don't get what I am saying.  So, it's all right.

[OneLight]

21 minutes ago, Jayne said:

Your version does not say the declarative and independent statement "To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord" either.  When people make an independent sentence out of a dependent phrase and change one of the words that can open the door for disagreement of what the text means.  

When people cite that misquoted text, as most people in funerals do, they are saying that the Bible definitely states that the last breath taken here and the first breath taken with God are virtually simultaneous.  That may be so.  I hope it is so.

But that's not what the text says.  He says the we can be confident that when we die that we will go to be with the Lord, but whether we are here or there we should strive to please God.  Paul's text does not give a definitive time frame of the distant between life here and life there and that isn't what he is talking about anyway.  He is talking about hope for a future and obedience here and there.

I just am too much of a stickler on quoting scripture correctly because even the tiniest of variances can alter what is being said.

There's a lot of room for differences of opinion with those little words "is" and "and".  "Is" implies it will definitively happen at the same nanosecond.  "And" implies it will definitively happen - period.

I know, I get it.  Anytime I bring this up - people don't get what I am saying.  So, it's all right.

I didn't realize you were pointing toward a conjunction in your previous post.  Yet, let's look at the placement of "and".   I agree that "and" and "is" can bring different meanings to a statement, yet they can bring the same, joining ideas.  In this case, joining the idea of being absent from the body with being present with the Lord.  Like you, I hope this is true, but no scripture declares this without question.