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Revelation 10 -who, what, when ?


Bible_Gazer

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8 hours ago, DonkeySpeaksAgain said:

The little book is likely the same 6th seal scroll that "flew open like a scroll unrolling". Having a "foot" on both the earth and the sea suggest control (like making the world your footstool - a prerequisite for the 2nd coming). 

What it all means to me is the prophecy of the Messiah coming to reign on earth is being fulfilled. OT prophecies pointing to this are fulfilled. The promises God made to the Jewish people (Israel) will NOW begin (Millennium). 

John is told to NOT write what was said (NEW PROPHECY - probably for the Millennium), BUT he is told that he will be asked to prophecy again for "many people and many nations". What else can this be than the Millennium period. Even the OT has very little prophecy concerning this time period. And God does act on earth WITHOUT first telling His people what He is going to do through the prophets.

"Thunder" is ALWAYS attached to key events in prophecy so I believe it has to deal with the Holy Spirit and/or God's interaction with the world in a physical way.

To sum up... it appears to be a transitional interlude that gives us some additional information concerning the 2nd coming.

Thanks speaking Donkey for your input.

Well it does seem the Lord will gain control of sea and land where humanity is. He still rules in the kingdom of men. 

I think the thunders is something to do with the Millennium also.

 

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On 3/12/2019 at 10:56 AM, Diaste said:

It's nearly impossible to write a timeline with many events occuring that may overlap, precede or ensue after any of a number of events.

Parts of Rev are chronological, other parts describe events within the previous chronology, it is not chronological from Chapter 1 to Chapter 22.

So chapter 10 may come between trumps but not necessarily before the two witnesses.

Of course I disagree - as you knew I would!

Revelation is extremely chronologically - as much as possible when several things are happening at the same time. However, the 5 parallel paths down the last half of the week have staggered beginnings so they are also chronological. 

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On 3/14/2019 at 7:38 AM, Bible_Gazer said:

5. Time no longer v.6 ? what is this about ?

Any thoughts on this ?
What when ?
If its somewhere in the 7 years time frame, is there still time to be reckon with ? 3 1/2 years, 1,000 years …….

I think that is a bad translation.  There is differences in the Greek manuscripts here. Does time cease here? Certainly not! There is a 1000 year period of time still in the future at this point in time. 

Therefore it seems the best translation is "there will be no more DELAY in time."

AT this time, Satan will have been the god of this planet for 6000 years. But Adam's lease will termination and the 6000 years OVER at the sounding of the 7th trumpet that marks the midpoint of the week. Suddenly Satan will have no more legal hold to planet earth. His reign as the spiritual ruler of earth will end. The kingdoms of the world will be transferred to Jesus Christ, and Michael will go to war, and the devil will be confined to walking the earth as we do - no more in the heavenly realms. 

How has Satan remained the god of this world - legally? He usurped Adam's 6000 year lease. 

One thing is absolute - but many disagree in error: the 7th trumpet is NOT A COMING. No rapture here, no coming here: God has promised the Beast 42 months of authority. Mankind seems to want a world WITHOUT a God, so God will give them exactly what they think they want: God will allow Satan 42 months to rule the earth.

In other words, the 7th trumpet is NOT and never will be Paul's "last trump."  It is, of course, the last in John's series, but Paul's last trump is of another series - probably of the feast of trumpets series. Another thing is certain, Paul's "last trump" will be the last trumpet of the church age. A moment after the rapture and it is Day of the Lord time.

Edited by iamlamad
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On 3/16/2019 at 7:00 AM, iamlamad said:

Of course I disagree - as you knew I would!

Revelation is extremely chronologically - as much as possible when several things are happening at the same time. However, the 5 parallel paths down the last half of the week have staggered beginnings so they are also chronological. 

Of course!

However, if several things are happening at the same time, those events are concurrent or simultaneous, whatever the circumstance. If 5 parallel paths have staggered beginnings some of the events or circumstances will either occur or exist concurrently; even as the separate events of the 5 parallel paths are successive within each path. Rev is chronological in some respects; seals, trumps, and vials are consecutive, 1-7.

It's like a date like March 16th. It's a chronological date but it exists concurrent with the month of March and the year 2019, even as March is chronological and yet exists concurrent within the year, and the year is chronological concurrent in the decade and the century, etc., so is the Revelation.

Since this, (wrath)

And when I saw the Lamb open the sixth seal, there was a great earthquake, and the sun became black like sackcloth of goat hair, and the whole moon turned blood red, and the stars of the sky fell to the earth like unripe figs dropping from a tree shaken by a great wind. The sky receded like a scroll being rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved from its place.

Then the kings of the earth, the nobles, the commanders, the rich, the mighty, and every slave and free man, hid in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains. And they said to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of the One seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb. For the great day of Their wrath has come, and who is able to withstand it?” - Rev 6

And this, (also wrath)

 And the seventh angel sounded.... And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail. - Rev 11

And this, (Islands and mountains gone; same as 6th seal. Hail and the great earthquake; same as at the 7th trump, which is also the last trump at which we are gathered)

And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done. And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great. And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath. And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found. And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great. - Rev 16

Happen at or near the same time and so the preceding events have a concurrent/successive fulfillment. It all comes to an end at or near the same time. Not to the second, but all ending right before the millennium.

Even if all the vials occur after the 7th trump, which is fine with me though I'm not going to get into why or why not; the 6th seal is the sign of the coming of Jesus and the 7th trump is the last trump at which time Jesus tells us we are gathered. This means at the very least all the trumps have sounded by the time of the 6th seal, the 7th in conjunction, and the coming of wrath and the gathering.

Edited by Diaste
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21 hours ago, Diaste said:

However, if several things are happening at the same time, those events are concurrent or simultaneous, whatever the circumstance. If 5 parallel paths have staggered beginnings some of the events or circumstances will either occur or exist concurrently; even as the separate events of the 5 parallel paths are successive within each path. Rev is chronological in some respects; seals, trumps, and vials are consecutive, 1-7.

This is an important aspect of Revelation to understand.  If all of the time frames mentioned are forced to run consecutively then we'd have this:

  • 5 months - Rev 9:5
  • 42 months - Rev 11:2
  • 1260 days - Rev 11:3
  • 1260 days - Rev 12:6
  • a time and times and half a time - Rev 12:14
  • 42 months - Rev 13:5

Obviously, some if not all of the above time frames are taking place at the same time.  The challenge is to find clues as to how they should be arranged.  And outside of Revelation, we have:

  • a time, times, and half a time - Daniel 7:27
  • a time, times, and half a time, 1290 days, 1335 days - Daniel 12:7, 11-12

which are also viewed, almost unanimously, as end time prophecies.  Small wonder that there are so many views on how things will come to pass.  One thing for sure is that the sequencing and chronology of end time events will come to pass according to the will of God regardless of how we personally perceive that things will happen.  We are exhorted numerous times to be ready and alert for those days . . . for a reason.

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Seem like the trumpets given by the Angels are messenger, Rev. 8 says the trumpets were voices.

Is it just that the trumpets are just warning of things to come, but they don't come by the trumpets, but by the vials.

Seem to be that the trumpets and vials are sort of parallel with each other with the same destruction.

If the trumpets are during the first 3 1/2 years then nothing really happens, maybe the time of "come out of her my people" so they will not be part of the destruction.

Interesting is in Rev.8 there seem to be a great commotion going on before the trumpets begin to sound. Fire cast into the earth and an earthquake.  explain this ?

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On 3/16/2019 at 10:24 AM, Diaste said:

Of course!

However, if several things are happening at the same time, those events are concurrent or simultaneous, whatever the circumstance. If 5 parallel paths have staggered beginnings some of the events or circumstances will either occur or exist concurrently; even as the separate events of the 5 parallel paths are successive within each path. Rev is chronological in some respects; seals, trumps, and vials are consecutive, 1-7.

It's like a date like March 16th. It's a chronological date but it exists concurrent with the month of March and the year 2019, even as March is chronological and yet exists concurrent within the year, and the year is chronological concurrent in the decade and the century, etc., so is the Revelation.

Since this, (wrath)

And when I saw the Lamb open the sixth seal, there was a great earthquake, and the sun became black like sackcloth of goat hair, and the whole moon turned blood red, and the stars of the sky fell to the earth like unripe figs dropping from a tree shaken by a great wind. The sky receded like a scroll being rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved from its place.

Then the kings of the earth, the nobles, the commanders, the rich, the mighty, and every slave and free man, hid in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains. And they said to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of the One seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb. For the great day of Their wrath has come, and who is able to withstand it?” - Rev 6

 

And this, (also wrath)

 And the seventh angel sounded.... And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail. - Rev 11

And this, (Islands and mountains gone; same as 6th seal. Hail and the great earthquake; same as at the 7th trump, which is also the last trump at which we are gathered)

And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done. And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great. And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath. And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found. And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great. - Rev 16

Happen at or near the same time and so the preceding events have a concurrent/successive fulfillment. It all comes to an end at or near the same time. Not to the second, but all ending right before the millennium.

Even if all the vials occur after the 7th trump, which is fine with me though I'm not going to get into why or why not; the 6th seal is the sign of the coming of Jesus and the 7th trump is the last trump at which time Jesus tells us we are gathered. This means at the very least all the trumps have sounded by the time of the 6th seal, the 7th in conjunction, and the coming of wrath and the gathering.

This is, of course, myth. A careful reader knows the earthquake at the 7th vial is MUCH more violent than the earthquake at the 6th seal. 

6th seal sign of His coming? WHICH coming? His coming FOR  His saints or His coming WITH His saints? 

Readers, the truth is, pick a chapter - any chapter: what you find in that chapter will take place AFTER the events of previous chapters and BEFORE events of later chapters, except for a few parentheses.  For example, the events in chapter 14 will happen AFTER the Beast rises up in chapter 13. The earthquake at the 7th vial will come AFTER the earthquake at the 6th seal (over 7 years after.)

Readers take note: most of John's verbs are Greek Aorist tense verbs that show no timing at all. We discover timing, by the verse of mention in relation to the rest of the book. Consider God's wrath: It BEGINS at the 6th seal, as the first place of mention. At the 7th trumpet, where John wrote, "thy wrath has come" It only shows us God's wrath is continuing. In other words, the Greek behind "has come" shows us no timing at all. It is just another mention of God's wrath existing.  The truth is, His wrath begins at the 6th seal, start of the Day of the Lord, and continues on through the week, culminating in the vials.

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