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2 hours ago, Still Alive said:

This may help with understanding my position regarding the "law of Moses":

 

https://drmsh.com/law-moses-survey-scriptural-phrase/

Sure, I don't include GENESIS in the WRITTEN TORAH OF MOSES either.

But the problem, in that article, is that it casts DOUBT upon the complete truth of Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy.

And since we have good reasons to UPHOLD the truth of Exodus, Lev. Num. and Dt....well....it follows that the article is wrong-headed.

blessings...

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2 hours ago, Still Alive said:

Right. It is not what I was talking about. I was talking about the new covenant which, as you pointed out, is easy and light. Jesus points out just how hard the first one was when he said merely hating your brother was murder and merely looking at a woman with physical desire was adultery. i.e. he made it impossible to save yourself through what is actually referred to as "dead works". Be as good as you can. It won't be good enough. It's because how good you are has nothing to do with it. It is about belief. Works follow belief, as does salvation. But the key is belief.

"I was talking about the new covenant which, as you pointed out, is easy and light."

Rather, ALL Jesus' teachings are EASY AND LIGHT...thus Mt. 5:19 is EASY AND LIGHT....

AND, Jesus applies Mt. 5:19 to ALL disciples of ALL nations (Mt.28:19-20).

AND, the New Covenant is given as the SAME TORAH OF MOSES (Jer.31:33).

NEW Covenant (Jer.31:31).

SAME Torah (Jer.31:33).

 

"Jesus points out just how hard the first one was when he said merely hating your brother was murder and merely looking at a woman with physical desire was adultery"

It's not too difficult!  Moses did NOT lie (Dt.30:11).

Luke agrees people can obey ALL Torah (Lk.1:6).

Jesus requires ALL Torah (Mt.5:19).  Paul too (2Ti.3:16).  John too (1Jn.5:3).  Stephen too (Ac.6:10-15).

 

"he made it impossible to save yourself through what is actually referred to as "dead works"."

FAITHFUL TORAH-OBEDIENCE is not "dead works".

Proper Torah-obedience is sufficient for eternal life (Lk.10:25-28).

 

" Be as good as you can."

Then obey Torah! (Rom.7:12).  Because Torah is GOOD.

 

"It won't be good enough."

It WILL be good enough to be GREAT (Mt.5:19) and to ENTER the forthcoming kingdom (Mt.5:20)....and to AVOID the scary consequences of Torah-disobedience (Mt.5:19-20;7:21-23;13:41-42).

Sure, only the BLOOD takes away our sins (1Jn.1:7)...but that same Christ requires ALL Torah (Mt.5:19) for ALL disciples of ALL nations (Mt.28:19-20).

 

"It's because how good you are has nothing to do with it."

To the contrary, your WORKS will be judged....some will be rewarded....others will NOT be rewarded....our works ARE IMPORTANT! (2Cor.5:10;1Cor.3:15).

Some will be GREAT...others LEAST (Mt.5:19).

You choose.

 

"It is about belief. Works follow belief, as does salvation. But the key is belief."

BELIEF without WORKS is DEAD (Jas.2).

The key is BOTH!

Justification by TORAH (Rom.2:13) AND Faith (Rom.5:1).

TOGETHER.

BOTH.

TOGETHER.

 

blessings...

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Still Alive said:

I see the commandments referred to as the ten commandments. And I see them as a way to:

1. Worship god - showing obedience to his "rules for being a human being that acknowledges he is a possession of his creator.

2. Improve the quality of your own life and your relationship with your fellow man. You violate them at your earthly peril, but not your heavenly peril, though your obedience will have heavenly consequences, though you will still be "saved". 1 Cor 3:13-16

Rather, the commandments are contained in ALL the Torah of Moses (1Ki.2:3;Jos.1:7)...not merely the 10!

DISOBEY Torah and be at risk of: Mt.5:19-20;7:21-23;13:41-42...that INCLUDES risk of losing the KINGDOM and risk of losing JESUS and risk of FIERY JUDGMENT.....don't go there!

blessings..

 

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5 hours ago, Still Alive said:

Well said!

I have to confess that it is sometimes very difficult for me to post here, all the time knowing that I am the only one that fully understands scripture as written to the men who's lives are contemporaneous with each book, as well as how it applies to us in the 21st century. This wisdom is a great burden I must carry when I discuss its true meaning with so many people that are wrong. 

:)

 

Note: Yes, I am just being silly. ;)

Hello TONGUEINCHEEK. 

I try. 

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4 hours ago, BibleGuy said:

you are "seeing" anti-Torah theology.  That's bad!

The warnings are against those who CHANGE or ALTER or SUBTRACT or MODIFY or CANCEL or TERMINATE Torah portions (as your theology does....)

Remember the warnings?   Mt. 5:19-20;7:21-23;13:41-42;Dt.4:2;12:32;Rev.22:18-19;Jos.1:7;Pr.30:6.

I'm emphasizing 100% of ALL Torah (Dt.30:1-8)....whereas you claim some Torah portions are CHANGED (thus SUBTRACTED or MODIFIED or CANCELED).

The warnings apply to YOUR theology, not mine.

That's why you have no grounds for warning me as I must warn you.

OK.  You feel you have a mandate to "warn" someone like me who believes what the writer of the Hebrews Letter said.  Thank you for your concern for me. 

 

I did NOT change the Law.  God did.  He has that right. 

I know:  "I am God.  I change not."   But what if this "change" was HIS plan.  The calf rebellion was NOT HIS original plan.  Neither was the Levite priesthood. 

His first "plan" was "the firstborn". 

 

Hebrews 7:12 "Any change in the priesthood must mean a change in the Law as well." (NJB)

Hebrews 7:12 "For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law."

The Law was not moved or transported anywhere.  It did not changed location.  The Law was actually "changed".

And "the priesthood" is the ONLY thing mentioned as specifically "changed". 
 

 

In what way, was "the priesthood changed"?   Jesus Christ was "made a priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek" (both a priest on earth and a king). 

Rev 20:5-6  All those delivered at the "first resurrection" (=all who are Christs) will also become "priests and kings" and "reign upon the earth" (both priests and kings on the earth). 

 

You contended that Melchizedek priests were simply added to the existing Levite priestly structure.  So - the Levite/Aaronic priests would no longer be the ONLY priests.  

But that's not what "the Law" says. 

The Law gave "the priesthood" solely to the descendants of Aaron - in perpetuity.   If you carry THAT exclusive Levite priesthood into the New Covenant, THEN NOTHING HAS CHANGED. 

 

If "the Law" WAS "changed" - by GOD Himself, that would mean "all" WAS "FULFILLED". 

Matthew 5:18 "For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled." (NKJ)

 

WAS ALL FULFILLED?  YES!   Yeshua "fulfilled" the Law.  He kept it perfectly.   AND    "The Law as prophecy was "fulfilled".  ("The Law" was an acted prophecy - of Him.) 

Acts 13:29  “Now when they had fulfilled all that was written concerning Him, they took Him down from the tree and laid Him in a tomb.”

    Luke 24:44 [Speaking post resurrection] “Then He said to them, ‘These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the prophets and the Psalms concerning me.”

    Acts 3:18 “But those things which God foretold by the mouth of all His prophets, that the Christ would suffer, He has thus fulfilled.”

    John 19:28-30 “After this, Jesus, knowing that all things had already been accomplished, to fulfill the Scripture, said, 'I am thirsty.' A jar full of sour wine was standing there; so they put a sponge full of the sour wine upon a branch of hyssop and brought it up to His mouth. Therefore when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, 'It is finished!' And He bowed His head and gave up His spirit.”

 

If you're going to say that His eternal reign was also prophesied - then "eternal" by its nature, does not end.  Eternal cannot be "fulfilled" or "finished".  Which would mean the Law as commanded (with animal sacrifices) would NEVER END. 

This cannot be so, because the writer of Hebrews says "there is of necessity a change of the Law".  

This cannot be so, because "heaven and earth WILL pass away"  by which point the Law WILL be "changed". 

 

 

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RE:  "Israel" and "the Church"

God called Israel's name "Green Olive Tree".   That is where Paul got his imagery for Roman Chapter 11. 

The OLIVE TREE of Romans Eleven represents God's people. 

Branches are "broken off" ("because of unbelief they were broken off") - "that you (believing Gentile) might be grafted in". 

Branches broken off --- Branches grafted in ----  because of belief or unbelief ----- THE TREE remains

"The root is holy".  Now who would the Root be?   ANSWER:  Yeshua!   We draw life from HIM. 

There is only ONE body, one "congregation".   The name of that body is "Israel".   Israel means "prevails with God".  Is that not what we do - through Christ? 

Christ only has ONE BRIDE. 

The bride of Christ is the New Jerusalem (with her citizens).  Pauls says we are "betrothed" to Christ.

The gates are named for the tribes of Israel, but the City is founded upon the 12 Disciples (and their message).   

What a great mixing of OT imagery with NT. 

There is no gate labeled "Gentiles Enter Here".   Nope.   There's no 13th loaf of sacred showbread for Gentiles, in "the true Tabernacle which is heaven itself".

Hebrews 12:22 "But you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly, 23 to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven." (NIV)

The "heavenly Jerusalem" is "the church of the firstborn".  All those who look to THAT CITY, are "written in heaven" (in the Book of the Life, of the Lamb). 

They have entered into Covenant with God through Christ. 

 

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6 hours ago, BibleGuy said:

I was just speculating that your opposition to ongoing Levitical/ceremonial/sacrificial Torah portions could be a hangover from your past SDA involvement with Ellen White's writings which likewise oppose ongoing Levitical/ceremonial/sacrifical Torah portions.

I rejected Ellen White as an inerrant "prophet" some 30 years ago.  Whatever I believe - I can assure you - is NOT "a hangover" from any past beliefs. 

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1 hour ago, Resurrection Priest said:

OK.  You feel you have a mandate to "warn" someone like me who believes what the writer of the Hebrews Letter said.  Thank you for your concern for me. 

 

I did NOT change the Law.  God did.  He has that right. 

I know:  "I am God.  I change not."   But what if this "change" was HIS plan.  The calf rebellion was NOT HIS original plan.  Neither was the Levite priesthood. 

His first "plan" was "the firstborn". 

 

Hebrews 7:12 "Any change in the priesthood must mean a change in the Law as well." (NJB)

Hebrews 7:12 "For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law."

The Law was not moved or transported anywhere.  It did not changed location.  The Law was actually "changed".

And "the priesthood" is the ONLY thing mentioned as specifically "changed". 
 

 

In what way, was "the priesthood changed"?   Jesus Christ was "made a priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek" (both a priest on earth and a king). 

Rev 20:5-6  All those delivered at the "first resurrection" (=all who are Christs) will also become "priests and kings" and "reign upon the earth" (both priests and kings on the earth). 

 

You contended that Melchizedek priests were simply added to the existing Levite priestly structure.  So - the Levite/Aaronic priests would no longer be the ONLY priests.  

But that's not what "the Law" says. 

The Law gave "the priesthood" solely to the descendants of Aaron - in perpetuity.   If you carry THAT exclusive Levite priesthood into the New Covenant, THEN NOTHING HAS CHANGED. 

 

If "the Law" WAS "changed" - by GOD Himself, that would mean "all" WAS "FULFILLED". 

Matthew 5:18 "For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled." (NKJ)

 

WAS ALL FULFILLED?  YES!   Yeshua "fulfilled" the Law.  He kept it perfectly.   AND    "The Law as prophecy was "fulfilled".  ("The Law" was an acted prophecy - of Him.) 

Acts 13:29  “Now when they had fulfilled all that was written concerning Him, they took Him down from the tree and laid Him in a tomb.”

    Luke 24:44 [Speaking post resurrection] “Then He said to them, ‘These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the prophets and the Psalms concerning me.”

    Acts 3:18 “But those things which God foretold by the mouth of all His prophets, that the Christ would suffer, He has thus fulfilled.”

    John 19:28-30 “After this, Jesus, knowing that all things had already been accomplished, to fulfill the Scripture, said, 'I am thirsty.' A jar full of sour wine was standing there; so they put a sponge full of the sour wine upon a branch of hyssop and brought it up to His mouth. Therefore when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, 'It is finished!' And He bowed His head and gave up His spirit.”

 

If you're going to say that His eternal reign was also prophesied - then "eternal" by its nature, does not end.  Eternal cannot be "fulfilled" or "finished".  Which would mean the Law as commanded (with animal sacrifices) would NEVER END. 

This cannot be so, because the writer of Hebrews says "there is of necessity a change of the Law".  

This cannot be so, because "heaven and earth WILL pass away"  by which point the Law WILL be "changed". 

 

 

"OK.  You feel you have a mandate to "warn" someone like me who believes what the writer of the Hebrews Letter said.  Thank you for your concern for me. "

We all have a mandate to rebuke others (Lev.19:17;Lk.17:3;2Ti.3:16), as necessary...

But we don't rebuke others for believing what the writer of the Hebrews Letter said.

Rather, we rebuke others for OPPOSING what the writer of the Hebrews Letter said.

Remember?

The writer of the Hebrews letter affirms that the Levitical Priesthood CONTINUES into the New Covenant era.

Remember?

1. I already showed you that the "change" of Heb. 7:12 (Gr. " μετατίθημι ") can mean TO GO OR PASS OVER (not necessarily TRANSPOSE or SUBSTITUTE or REPLACE).

2. Heb. 7:12 has Jesus PASSING OVER the Levitical Priesthood rules...and functioning in accordance with the Melchizedek Priesthood rules...because Jesus is not a Levite! (not because Levitical Torah is terminated).

3. The writer of Hebrews has the Levitical Priesthood CONTINUING even into the New-Covenant era (Heb.7:28;8:3-5;8:10;9:6-7,9,22,25;10:1,11,16), so the writer of Hebrews is obviously not envisioning a CHANGE of Torah instructions regarding Levitical service.

 

"I did NOT change the Law.  God did.  He has that right. "

Then your viewpoint appears to stand in direct contradiction with Dt.4:2;12:32;Mt.5:18.

Not sure why you feel so comfortable disregarding Dt. 4:2;12:32;Mt.5:18.

But hey....you have free will....

 

"But what if this "change" was HIS plan.  The calf rebellion was NOT HIS original plan.  Neither was the Levite priesthood. 

His first "plan" was "the firstborn". "

Those are opinions....I'll stick with Scripture (Dt.4:2;12:32;Mt.5:18).

 

"Hebrews 7:12 "Any change in the priesthood must mean a change in the Law as well." (NJB)

Hebrews 7:12 "For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law."

The Law was not moved or transported anywhere.  It did not changed location.  The Law was actually "changed".

And "the priesthood" is the ONLY thing mentioned as specifically "changed". "

I already showed you that the "change" of Heb. 7:12 (Gr. " μετατίθημι ") can mean TO GO OR PASS OVER (not necessarily TRANSPOSE or SUBSTITUTE or REPLACE).

And, I already showed you that Heb. 7:12 thus has Jesus PASSING OVER (not CHANGING) the Levitical Priesthood rules...and functioning in accordance with the Melchizedek Priesthood rules...

Jesus PASSES OVER the Levitical rules because Jesus is not a Levite!  He is of the order of MELCHIZEDEK.

Jesus does NOT PASS OVER the Levitical rules because of some supposed termination of the Levitical Torah rules.

Remember?

Jesus comes to restore Levitical sacrifices (Mal.3:4) to fulfill the Davidic Covenant (Jer.33), Sabbath (Is.66), Sukkot for all nations (Zec.14), in the temple (Eze.40-47) He comes to rebuild (Zec.6), when we again obey 100% of ALL Torah (Dt.30:1-8).

Jesus DESIRES sacrifices on behalf of people from all nations (Mk.11:17 citing Is.56:7).

Jesus requires ALL Torah (Mt.5:19) for all disciples of all nations (Mt.28:19-20).

The writer of Hebrews has the Levitical Priesthood CONTINUING even into the New-Covenant era (Heb.7:28;8:3-5;8:10;9:6-7,9,22,25;10:1,11,16), so the writer of Hebrews is obviously not envisioning a CHANGE of Torah instructions regarding Levitical service.

But hey...you have free will....so you are free to disregard these Scriptural considerations if you so choose...

 

"In what way, was "the priesthood changed"?   Jesus Christ was "made a priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek" (both a priest on earth and a king). "

That's not a change...the Melchizdek priesthoood ALREADY EXISTED before Jesus was even born of Mary.

 

"Rev 20:5-6  All those delivered at the "first resurrection" (=all who are Christs) will also become "priests and kings" and "reign upon the earth" (both priests and kings on the earth)."

I already showed you that a "corporate description" does NOT entail that ALL individuals of a group possess characteristics of SOME within the group.

And, you've not justified your presumption that Rev. 20:5-6 is not intended as a "corporate description".

 

 

"You contended that Melchizedek priests were simply added to the existing Levite priestly structure."

Rather, they are DISTINCT priesthoods which can exist simultaneously, although the Melchizedek priesthood evidently predates the origin of the Levitical priesthood.

After all, the Melchizedek priesthood existed in the time of Abraham....whereas the Levitical priesthood was originated in the time of Moses.

So, the Melchizedek priesthood PREDATES the Levitical priesthood....even though both can exist simultaneously.

One does not replace the other.

One does not change the other.

Neither is replaced.

Neither is changed.

BOTH serve their separate and distinct functions.

Yes, Yeshua exhibits a PASSING OVER (Gr. " μετατίθημι " or " μετάθεσις ", not a CHANGE, Heb. 7:12) of the Levitical priesthood so as to achieve once-for-all removal of our sins via the better Melchizedek priesthood methodology....

But that's not a CHANGE....it's simply a DISTINCT and SUPERIOR priesthood methodology.

That same Yeshua comes to RESTORE the Levitical service (Mal.3:4) to fulfill the Davidic Covenant (Jer.33), Sabbath (Is.66), Sukkot for all nations (Zec.14), in the temple (Eze.40-47) He comes to rebuild (Zec.6), when we again obey 100% of ALL Torah (Dt.30:1-8).

 

"So - the Levite/Aaronic priests would no longer be the ONLY priests.  "

Of course!  Yeshua was a Melchizedek priest on the earth 2000 years ago....thus proving that the MELCHIZEDEK and LEVITICAL priesthoods may function simultaneously.

The writer of the Hebrew Letter repeatedly affirms the ONGOING function of the Levitical service (Heb.7:28;8:3-5;8:10;9:6-7,9,22,25;10:1,11,16) even during the New-Covenant era, again confirming that BOTH priesthoods may function simultaneously.

 

"But that's not what "the Law" says.  The Law gave "the priesthood" solely to the descendants of Aaron - in perpetuity."

No.  The LEVITICAL (not MELCHIZEDEK) priesthood is given to the seed of Aaron....

The Torah of Moses does NOT state that the Melchizedek priesthood is given to the seed of Aaron.

 

" If you carry THAT exclusive Levite priesthood into the New Covenant, THEN NOTHING HAS CHANGED. "

We carry BOTH priesthoods into the New Covenant...and neither priesthood has changed.

Rather, Yeshua PASSES OVER the Levitical Covenant so as to employ the SUPERIOR Melchizedek priesthood for the purpose of completely taking our sins away.

After all, Yeshua was of the Melchizedek priesthood....but behold!  The LEVITICAL service CONTINUES (Ac. 6:7;Ac.21:20;Heb.7:28;8:3-5;8:10;9:6-7,9,22,25;10:1,11,16).

And it will be 100% restored again (Dt.30:1-8)....or else the Torah (Dt.30:8) is a LIE....and I don't think you will go there....Torah is TRUTH (Ps.119:142), not a lie.

 

"WAS ALL FULFILLED?  YES!   Yeshua "fulfilled" the Law.  He kept it perfectly.   AND    "The Law as prophecy was "fulfilled". "

ABSOLUTELY FALSE.  Dt. 30:1-8 (a PROPHECY in the LAW) is NOT YET ACCOMPLISHED OR FULFILLED!  It is yet FUTURE.

Thus, per Mt. 5:18, NO TORAH IS TERMINATED OR CHANGED OR ABOLISHED IN ANY WAY.

 

"Acts 13:29  “Now when they had fulfilled all that was written concerning Him, they took Him down from the tree and laid Him in a tomb.”"

Sure, all was fulfilled CONCERNING YESHUA in His first coming...but that doesn't prove that all was fulfilled in the Torah concerning EVERYTHING....

And that doesn't prove that all was fulfilled concerning Yeshua in His SECOND coming (which, of course, is yet future).

And, NOTHING in Ac. 13:29 shows that Dt. 30:1-8 has already happened....

So, NO TORAH is abolished or terminated in any way, given Mt. 5:18.

 

"  Luke 24:44 [Speaking post resurrection] “Then He said to them, ‘These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the prophets and the Psalms concerning me.”"

Sure, all was fulfilled CONCERNING YESHUA in His first coming...but that doesn't prove that all was fulfilled in the Torah concerning EVERYTHING....

And that doesn't prove that all was fulfilled concerning Yeshua in His SECOND coming (which, of course, is yet future).

And, NOTHING in Lk.24:44 shows that Dt. 30:1-8 has already happened....

So, NO TORAH is abolished or terminated in any way, given Mt. 5:18.

 

"  Acts 3:18 “But those things which God foretold by the mouth of all His prophets, that the Christ would suffer, He has thus fulfilled.”"

Sure, Christ fulfilled prophecies predicting His suffering....but this does NOT prove that Dt. 30:1-8 is also fulfilled!

Dt. 30:1-8 is a DIFFERENT prophecy than, for example, the Messiah's suffering predicted in Is.53 or Ps.22.

 

" John 19:28-30 “After this, Jesus, knowing that all things had already been accomplished, to fulfill the Scripture, said, 'I am thirsty.' A jar full of sour wine was standing there; so they put a sponge full of the sour wine upon a branch of hyssop and brought it up to His mouth. Therefore when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, 'It is finished!' And He bowed His head and gave up His spirit.”"

Out of context, my friend...

In CONTEXT, it follows that all things were accomplished in Jn.19:28-30 which are PERTAINING TO THE CRUCIFIXION CONTEXT of Jn.19:28-30.

Did all Israelites return to the physical land of Israel during the crucifixion?  Of course not!  Dt. 30:1-8 was NOT fulfilled during the crucifixion.  Dt. 30:1-8 is STILL unfulfilled.

James tells us the diaspora CONTINUES (Jas.1:1).  Thus, Dt. 30:1-8 was STILL not fulfilled at the time of the writing of Jas.1:1.

Paul tells us that the promised land-inheritance still stands, and WE share in that promised land inheritance (Gal.3:29;Eph.3:6).  It is STILL FUTURE...thus DT. 30:1-8 is STILL unfulfilled...thus NO TORAH is canceled (per Mt.5:18)....thus no Levitical Torah portion is canceled.

 

After all, Levitical animal sacrifices are CLEAR AND PLAIN in the future temple of Eze.40-47.....so it makes no sense to suppose Levitical sacrificial duties are terminated....

 

"Which would mean the Law as commanded (with animal sacrifices) would NEVER END. "

Evidently some Torah portions will pass away at some future point (Mt.5:18)....but not yet!  Dt. 30:1-8 is NOT yet accomplished.

 

"This cannot be so, because the writer of Hebrews says "there is of necessity a change of the Law".  "

And I already showed the evidence which confirms it is not a CHANGE, but it is a PASSING OVER.

Remember?

1. I already showed you that the "change" of Heb. 7:12 (Gr. " μετατίθημι ") can mean TO GO OR PASS OVER (not necessarily TRANSPOSE or SUBSTITUTE or REPLACE).

2. Heb. 7:12 has Jesus PASSING OVER the Levitical Priesthood rules...and functioning in accordance with the Melchizedek Priesthood rules...because Jesus is not a Levite! (not because Levitical Torah is terminated).

3. The writer of Hebrews has the Levitical Priesthood CONTINUING even into the New-Covenant era (Heb.7:28;8:3-5;8:10;9:6-7,9,22,25;10:1,11,16), so the writer of Hebrews is obviously not envisioning a CHANGE of Torah instructions regarding Levitical service.

4. INSTEAD (Heb. " תַּחַת ", Nu.3:12) is IN PLACE OF, not a CHANGE from a previous methodology.

5. Jesus comes to restore Levitical sacrifices (Mal.3:4) to fulfill the Davidic Covenant (Jer.33), Sabbath (Is.66), Sukkot for all nations (Zec.14), in the temple (Eze.40-47) He comes to rebuild (Zec.6), when we again obey 100% of ALL Torah (Dt.30:1-8).

6. Jesus DESIRES sacrifices on behalf of people from all nations (Mk.11:17 citing Is.56:7).

7. Jesus requires ALL Torah (Mt.5:19) for all disciples of all nations (Mt.28:19-20).

8. Luke agrees that the Levitical service CONTINUES in the New-Covenant era (Ac. 6:7;Ac.21).

 

blessings...

 

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1 hour ago, Resurrection Priest said:

I rejected Ellen White as an inerrant "prophet" some 30 years ago.  Whatever I believe - I can assure you - is NOT "a hangover" from any past beliefs. 

Ok then....thanks for clarifying that!

blessings...

 

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15 hours ago, BibleGuy said:

Sure, I don't include GENESIS in the WRITTEN TORAH OF MOSES either.

But the problem, in that article, is that it casts DOUBT upon the complete truth of Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy.

And since we have good reasons to UPHOLD the truth of Exodus, Lev. Num. and Dt....well....it follows that the article is wrong-headed.

blessings...

Actually, I think it is good that it casts doubt on the "complete truth" of those books. I am actually in the middle of listening to his podcast on Exodus (I have a three hour round trip commute) and he's evicerating many common viewpoints about it, all the time using the scripture itself to make his points. 

It's not that he is throwing out those books. It is that he's attempting to discern who wrote them, who they were written for, and what they mean to us today.

I finally just purchased his books, "The Unseen Realm, Angels, and Supernatural". The last one is a "reader's digest" version of the first one. The second is about what the bible really has to say about supernatural beings.

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