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3 minutes ago, Tzephanyahu said:

True.  But again, not every offering prescribed in Torah is to cover sin.  

John the Baptist appeared in the wilderness, preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.

Jesus replied, “Let it be so now; it is proper for us to do this to fulfill all righteousness.”

Mark 1:4, Matthew 3:15

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@NickyLouse I'm not sure we're talking about the same thing here :).  Unless I'm missing the point you're making?

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Just now, Tzephanyahu said:

@NickyLouse I'm not sure we're talking about the same thing here :).  Unless I'm missing the point you're making?

It was in response and in agreement about Yeshua observing the law.

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2 minutes ago, NickyLouse said:

It was in response and in agreement about Yeshua observing the law.

Ah! *slaps forehead*, I get it now.  Yes indeed!  The Lord Yeshua followed the Torah on every point. 

There aren't 613 commands to follow as some ascertain.  This numbering system is poor, it repeats commands worded differently and includes laws for both sexes.  The reality of the matter is that if you truly love Yahweh and truly love your neighbour - a lot of the Torah is not needed as you will be following it's heart intention already.  This is what we learn from King David who, at times, violated Torah but was still greatly loved because his priorities were correct and heart was upright.  Also, this is what we learn from the Lord, who showed us how to correctly walk in the Torah - not by letter and checking off tickboxes, but by walking in love, peace and service.

Love & Shalom 

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I belong to a Messianic Congregation and have been watching Mike Winger who I think is a great apologist. He has a few videos out now concerning the HRM and it is worth watching whether you agree with him or not.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QR7xTYhXEbo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vhn6Mn9jESo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mI5wiDTHpgE

 

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On 5/30/2019 at 1:27 PM, NickyLouse said:

We believe that the animal sacrifices have been suspended until the temple in Heaven comes when the New Jerusalem is established in the millennial reign at which time the sacrifices will be re-instituted.

The sacrifices will be re-instituted?  Is it true? What does the Lord God say by the prophet Isaiah? Isa. 65:v.17 - 17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

Peter, the Apostle, inspired by the holy Spirit, prophesied, saying: 2 Pe.3:v.7 & 11-13  - 7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the Day of Judgment and perdition of ungodly men.  

11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

 

12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

 

In fact, there will not be re-institution of the sacrifices by no manner of means.  

 

 

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16 hours ago, Tzephanyahu said:

Shalom Elihoenai,

As there are in the Christian community also.

Yes, we cannot follow the feasts as exactly prescribed.  However, thankfully we are not under the Law.  So we are free to observe the Feasts in the way that we can.  What can we do then?  Well, we can observe the high sabbaths, observe some practices of the Feasts and read, reflect and learn their prophetic message throughout the year.  What a privilege it is to experience these Feasts even in a diminished form.

Not necessarily so. It seems you may need to go back and study Leviticus to see the various types of offerings.  Also, you ought to consider the offerings given in the vision Ezekiel had of the future Temple.  

Do you mean why did the Lord Yeshua not perform offerings?  If so, that is because he was not of the tribe of Levi, of course.  If you mean why didn't He offer any through the priests, how do you know He didn't?  There is a lot implied in the gospels.  They assume the reader has mastery over the Old Testament, or at least a decent understanding of it.  Therefore, when the Lord Yeshua celebrated the Feasts etc, do you suppose He didn't bring an offering to Yahweh?  Don't you think if He resisted such things that the Pharisees, Sadducees and Scribes wouldn't have picked up on this - seeing as they were keen to criticise him at every turn.

I hope that gives you some another approach to consider.

Love & Shalom

1) Yes, there is no consensus in the Fake so-called Christian denominations and non-denominations, where they are hopelessly divided by Design. Apparently, Elohim has given Satanic/Demonic Freemasons full control over these so-called Christian organisations and their members. We, on the other hand, are only concerned with Elohim's Consensus through Yeshua.

2) You have declared and it is true that, you are not a follower of Yeshua Messiah/Christ. Yeshua Messiah/Christ does the Feasts as exactly prescribed. Sinners are Under the Law, because they fall short of Elohim's Perfect Sinless Standard. So-called Christians and Messianics both make void the Word of Elohim through their Tradition.

3)  All things are made through Yeshua. There is no offering described in Leviticus that does not involve Yeshua. 

 4) John the Baptist is of the Tribe of Levi and he does not do Animal Sacrifice. In Acts, is there any record of the Apostles doing Animal Sacrifice? 

 

Mark 7:13 King James Version (KJV)

13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

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 @Elihoenai, I think we are on very different pages. I don't think this discussion is going to go anywhere healthy, unfortunately. 

You still have much to learn, as do I.

Peace be with you.

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On 5/31/2019 at 2:35 PM, NickyLouse said:

You have some very good questions and I appreciate your stretching my mind about them. I cannot give too good of a defense about why we do not follow the feasts exactly. For example, I have asked myself (and my rabbi) whether I should live in actual booths made from palm fronds for an entire week. Our congregation does build a makeshift booth from palm fronds since they are in abundance here, but we only have a sermon under them and then they are taken down. I would suspect that if I wanted to live in one, my rabbi would encourage it. Incidentally, it is the feasts that draw me to learn more about Hebraic roots. If we could possibly all agree that the Spring feasts were about His first coming, then perhaps it follows that the Fall feasts are about His return. So if the feasts were to be abandoned after His first coming, why did God give us the Fall feasts. Did He change His mind about that when Israel rejected Christ? Would they have continued in observing them if they had accepted Him?

I have also questioned the teaching about animal sacrifices returning. His sacrifice was ABSOLUTELY SUFFICIENT FOR ALL. It was explained to me that we who believe without seeing do so according to faith, but when He returns there will be no need for faith since they will see Him in the flesh. Those who believed God before the crucifixion believed by faith. After the cross, we believe by faith that He did come and die for our sins. Even those who walked with Jesus believed by faith (granted it was probably easy to do). However, after He returns and displays His glory for all to see, faith in Him will be moot. Therefore, they will be judged according to their obedience.

I cannot explain it too much better than that. Perhaps I can find some passages that support all of this. I have only been studying it for about a year so I still feel that I have much to understand. I will say that if I do not see clearly whether what some call the ceremonial law should be followed, I will certainly drop the belief because it is my only desire to listen and pay heed to what God says.

Blessings Brother

We are glad your mind is being stretched. Concerning the Feasts, it is generally considered that it is very difficult, if not impossible, to follow Elohim's instructions exactly. For example, in the Passover, should you or can you take and keep a living Lamb Without Blemish for four days and than slaughter it in the evening? 

I will do some study on the Spring and Fall Feasts to see whether or not the teaching you posted is True Doctrine. We base everything on Scripture and the only desire is to follow all things that Elohim commands, as taught by Yeshua. 

 

Do you think the Passover must be performed the Samaritans way?

 

Samaritan Passover Samaria 2010

 

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Posted (edited)
On 6/1/2019 at 8:52 AM, Elihoenai said:

We are glad your mind is being stretched. Concerning the Feasts, it is generally considered that it is very difficult, if not impossible, to follow Elohim's instructions exactly. For example, in the Passover, should you or can you take and keep a living Lamb Without Blemish for four days and than slaughter it in the evening? 

I will do some study on the Spring and Fall Feasts to see whether or not the teaching you posted is True Doctrine. We base everything on Scripture and the only desire is to follow all things that Elohim commands, as taught by Yeshua. 

 

Do you think the Passover must be performed the Samaritans way?

 

Samaritan Passover Samaria 2010

 

We worship in spirit and in truth - neither on Mt Gerizim or Jerusalem necessarily.

What I do personally on Passover is remember the sacrifice that was made when Yeshua was killed. The moedim are dress rehearsals for the real act. Passover had been observed and practiced for 1500 before the reality in the slaughter of Yeshua occurred. Now that the reality has passed, there is no longer any need for the dress rehearsals. However, in remembrance of the crucifixion, we do observe Passover, but not as a dress rehearsal for what is to come. I am less adamant about Passover and Unleavened Bread as I am Shavuot* and the Fall moedim. We are still awaiting the complete fulfillment of those dress rehearsals.

As for the future sacrifices, I will ask my rabbi what passages support his belief that the temple and the sacrifices will return.

Praise God that you seek only what is truth and follow Elohim. That is my desire as well.

*My rabbi believes that Acts 2 was only a partial fulfillment of Joel 2:28-29 and that a pre-trib rapture of some believers may occur on some future Shavuot/Pentecost as it the waving of the leavened loaves represents the Father's acceptance of us as our High Priest Yeshua waves us before Him.

Edited by NickyLouse
corrected Joel reference
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