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The one taken and the one left, who shall be saved ?


R. Hartono

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18 hours ago, Jostler said:

oh is it?  then how do we explain that those TAKEN in  Noah's day were TAKEN in judgement! 

Noah was taken to the safety of the ship and the world was left for destruction, the same thing in the end of times. church shall be taken to the Feast of the Lamb.

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19 hours ago, R. Hartono said:

This verse is showing the rapture :

Matt 24:40 "Then there will be two men in the field; one will be taken and one will be left.

Which is later explained by Paul :

1 Thes 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

 

Matthew 24:40 is a second coming verse. It includes the removal of unbelievers as an act of judgment.

1 Thessalonians 4:17 is a rapture verse. The Lord will take the true believers to heaven to escape the wrath and judgment that will take place on this earth during the 7 year tribulation. 

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On 3/16/2019 at 12:33 AM, Marilyn C said:

Hi R. Hartono,

The context is when the Lord comes `so will the coming of the Son of Man be.` (Matt. 24: 39)  Jesus did not reveal about the Body of Christ till He told the Apostle Paul, many years later. It was a mystery not known even by the Old testament Prophets. (Eph. 3: 1 - 7)

Marilyn.

Respectfully disagree.

"This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are fellow heirs, fellow members of the body, and fellow partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus."

The promises of Jesus Christ were given to Abraham.

"And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise."

 

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On 3/18/2019 at 11:24 PM, R. Hartono said:

Noah was taken to the safety of the ship and the world was left for destruction, the same thing in the end of times. church shall be taken to the Feast of the Lamb.

I agree. The context is the coming of the Son of man and of course the associated gathering of the elect. These two events are noted and so conspicuous it defies reason to create any other context.

The 'taken' are snatched up to safety and the 'left' are those that will face the wrath of the Lamb.

"29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other." - Matt 24

"12 And when I saw the Lamb open the sixth seal, there was a great earthquake, and the sun became black like sackcloth of goat hair, and the whole moon turned blood red, 13 and the stars of the sky fell to the earth like unripe figs dropping from a tree shaken by a great wind. 14 The sky receded like a scroll being rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved from its place. 15 Then the kings of the earth, the nobles, the commanders, the rich, the mighty, and every slave and free man, hid in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains. 16 And they said to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of the One seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb. 17 For the great day of Their wrath has come, and who is able to withstand it?”" - Rev 6

 

1o Before them the earth quakes the heavens tremble. The sun and moon grow dark, and the stars lose their brightness11 The LORD raises His voice in the presence of His army. Indeed, His camp is very large, for mighty are those who obey His command. For the Day of the LORD is great and very dreadful. Who can endure it?" - Joel 2

 

 

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On 3/19/2019 at 12:17 AM, missmuffet said:

Matthew 24:40 is a second coming verse. It includes the removal of unbelievers as an act of judgment.

1 Thessalonians 4:17 is a rapture verse. The Lord will take the true believers to heaven to escape the wrath and judgment that will take place on this earth during the 7 year tribulation. 

Indeed it is, the same gathering seen here,

"And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other." - Matt 24

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On 3/18/2019 at 6:20 AM, R. Hartono said:

This verse is showing the rapture :

Matt 24:40 "Then there will be two men in the field; one will be taken and one will be left.

Which is later explained by Paul :

1 Thes 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

 

Greetings my brother RH,

I have a question for you. Do you believe Jesus was giving his disciples a lesson about the rapture in the Olivet Discourse (Matt 24-25)?  They asked him two questions (some believe three) , was one of them about when the rapture will be? 

If you answer yes to any of those questions, has Jesus ever taught the rapture to them before this?  If so, would you mind sharing the book, chapter, and verse because I must have missed it. 

Thanks,

spock

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On 3/14/2019 at 12:16 AM, R. Hartono said:

Matt 24:40 "Then there will be two men in the field; one will be taken and one will be left.

Some say the taken one is the picture of a wise virgin taken by the Bridegroom to escape the grief tribulation, this is logic.

Some say the taken one is judged for destruction, why would God need to take them for destruction as the whole earth is already set for destruction in the great tribulation ?

 

 

Jesus taught about the wheat and the tares being in the field together.  They grow together until the time of the harvest.  The first ones that are taken out are the tares.  They are taken out to be burned.

 

Matthew 13:29-30 King James Version (KJV)

29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.

30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

Christians should look forward to being left behind.

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13 hours ago, seeking the lost said:

Jesus taught about the wheat and the tares being in the field together.  They grow together until the time of the harvest.  The first ones that are taken out are the tares.  They are taken out to be burned.

 

Matthew 13:29-30 King James Version (KJV)

29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.

30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

Christians should look forward to being left behind.

You cannot use the above verse to justify your theory, because Wheat is gathered first then the chaff will burn with fire.

Luke 3: 17 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and will gather the wheat into his garner; but the chaff he will burn with fire unquenchable.

Mat 24: 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

People will mourn when this rapture happens because the world will not see Jesus come to rule but take the saints away :

Rev 3:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

In every field of the world, the farmer gather the fruit first then they burn and renew the soil.

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On 3/26/2019 at 12:17 AM, Spock said:

Greetings my brother RH,

I have a question for you. Do you believe Jesus was giving his disciples a lesson about the rapture in the Olivet Discourse (Matt 24-25)?  They asked him two questions (some believe three) , was one of them about when the rapture will be? 

If you answer yes to any of those questions, has Jesus ever taught the rapture to them before this?  If so, would you mind sharing the book, chapter, and verse because I must have missed it. 

Thanks,

spock

Would you care to listen to Robert Breaker explanation in Youtube, search his video with words :

Matthew 24 Explained Rightly Divided Proving Pretribulation Rapture

youtube.com/watch?v=jxIUpkLi7Ck

The first 10 minutes will answer your question.

Jesus bless you with strength and faith and abundancy.

Edited by R. Hartono
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17 minutes ago, R. Hartono said:

You cannot use the above verse to justify your theory, because Wheat is gathered first then the chaff will burn with fire.

Luke 3: 17 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and will gather the wheat into his garner; but the chaff he will burn with fire unquenchable.

Mat 24: 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

People will mourn when this rapture happens because the world will not see Jesus come to rule but take the saints away :

Rev 3:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

In every field of the world, the farmer gather the fruit first then they burn and renew the soil.

tares and chaff are not the same thing....TOTALLY different operations related to the harvest

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