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The one taken and the one left, who shall be saved ?


R. Hartono

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4 hours ago, Jostler said:

tares and chaff are not the same thing....TOTALLY different operations related to the harvest

The same meaning with different language man oh man.

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Just now, R. Hartono said:

The same meaning with different language man oh man.

i don't think so friend...the tares are weeds and they're gathered up before the wheat is.  Winnowing the chaff is a process that takes place with the wheat alone, on it's way to the master's barn for storage.  The processes are completely different in both time and objective.  Conflating the two is a huge mistake.

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8 hours ago, R. Hartono said:

Would you care to listen to Robert Breaker explanation in Youtube, search his video with words :

Matthew 24 Explained Rightly Divided Proving Pretribulation Rapture

youtube.com/watch?v=jxIUpkLi7Ck

The first 10 minutes will answer your question.

Jesus bless you with strength and faith and abundancy.

Are you sure that link is correct? I’m not getting it. Thanks

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49 minutes ago, pinacled said:

When and how long is the wheat harvest.

 

The full picture.  First the parable.

The Parable of the Weeds  Matthew 13

24 Jesus told them another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. 25 But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. 26 When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared.

27 “The owner’s servants came to him and said, ‘Sir, didn’t you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?’

28 “‘An enemy did this,’ he replied.

“The servants asked him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up?’

29 “‘No,’ he answered, ‘because while you are pulling the weeds, you may uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.’”

Second the explanation.

The Parable of the Weeds Explained

36 Then he left the crowd and went into the house. His disciples came to him and said, “Explain to us the parable of the weeds in the field.”

37 He answered, “The one who sowed the good seed is the Son of Man.38 The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the people of the kingdom. The weeds are the people of the evil one, 39 and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels.

40 “As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. 41 The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil.42 They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Whoever has ears, let them hear.

The specified time of when is the end of the age.  The length of time is not specified.  I would say as long as it takes.

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9 hours ago, R. Hartono said:

You cannot use the above verse to justify your theory, because Wheat is gathered first then the chaff will burn with fire.

Luke 3: 17 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and will gather the wheat into his garner; but the chaff he will burn with fire unquenchable.

Mat 24: 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

People will mourn when this rapture happens because the world will not see Jesus come to rule but take the saints away :

Rev 3:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

In every field of the world, the farmer gather the fruit first then they burn and renew the soil.

Just for your consideration look at the complete parable and the explanation.   First the parable.

The Parable of the Weeds

24 Jesus told them another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. 25 But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. 26 When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared.

27 “The owner’s servants came to him and said, ‘Sir, didn’t you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?’

28 “‘An enemy did this,’ he replied.

“The servants asked him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up?’

29 “‘No,’ he answered, ‘because while you are pulling the weeds, you may uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.’”

The Parable of the Weeds Explained

36 Then he left the crowd and went into the house. His disciples came to him and said, “Explain to us the parable of the weeds in the field.”

37 He answered, “The one who sowed the good seed is the Son of Man.38 The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the people of the kingdom. The weeds are the people of the evil one, 39 and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels.

40 “As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. 41 The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil.42 They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Whoever has ears, let them hear.

Looking at the explanation Jesus teaches that the tares are gathered first to be burned.

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39 minutes ago, seeking the lost said:

Just for your consideration look at the complete parable and the explanation.   First the parable.

The Parable of the Weeds

24 Jesus told them another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. 25 But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. 26 When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared.

27 “The owner’s servants came to him and said, ‘Sir, didn’t you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?’

28 “‘An enemy did this,’ he replied.

“The servants asked him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up?’

29 “‘No,’ he answered, ‘because while you are pulling the weeds, you may uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.’”

The Parable of the Weeds Explained

36 Then he left the crowd and went into the house. His disciples came to him and said, “Explain to us the parable of the weeds in the field.”

37 He answered, “The one who sowed the good seed is the Son of Man.38 The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the people of the kingdom. The weeds are the people of the evil one, 39 and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels.

40 “As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. 41 The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil.42 They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Whoever has ears, let them hear.

Looking at the explanation Jesus teaches that the tares are gathered first to be burned.

Yes this purge of the wheat and the tares happens after the 1000 Reign of Christ. For they go directly into the Lake of Fire.  For during the 1000 year reign there is still discord among the nations.  For Christ must rule with "a rod of iron".  For if a nation does not come to worship on the Feast of Tabernacles, rain will not come to their land. (Zech 14:16......)  So sin still exists, why would some then follow Satan at the end of the 1000 years.

Yet the ones taken, and the other left are a different time frame.  It is about the time of the Coming of the Son of Man (not the Coming of the King of Kings and the Lord of Lords).  So this is a very good Rapture verse.  Those working the fields is a different time of day in the harvest than those who grind the harvest (one morning to afternoon, the other afternoon to early evening).  Different time zones all affected at once.  Some removed (to where), others left (for what purpose).  Those who "watch and are ready" go to heaven, the others remain on earth.

In Christ

Montana Marv

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3 hours ago, pinacled said:

When and how long is the wheat harvest.

 

The  harvest began just after the resurrection and won't be fully brought in until the end of the Millennium.  The firstfruits offering was first  waved before the Lord(resurrection day, feast of firstfruits), then 50 days later the main harvest began and 3000 souls were won for the Kingdom.  It's been underway ever since and will continue until He  returns.  After that the gleanings remain to  be gathered and the  last of those will be gathered on the very last day  of  this current earth and heavens.

there are other harvests though  :)  olives, grapes, summer fruit....acorns :)   lol

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4 minutes ago, pinacled said:

nice, concise and a great introduction to the  "other" harvests I was a little too flippant about :) 

 

Quote

In the Old Testament, God commanded His people to give the first and best portions of the harvest as an offering to Him (Ex. 23:16; Neh. 10:35). This included grain (Ex. 23:16; 34:22), olive oil (Num. 18:12; Deut. 18:4), new wine (Num. 18:12; Deut. 18:4), honey (2 Chron. 31:5), sheep wool (Deut. 18:4), fruit (Neh. 10:35), and even their herds and flocks (Deut. 15:19).

 

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4 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

Yet the ones taken, and the other left are a different time frame.  It is about the time of the Coming of the Son of Man (not the Coming of the King of Kings and the Lord of Lords).  So this is a very good Rapture verse.  Those working the fields is a different time of day in the harvest than those who grind the harvest (one morning to afternoon, the other afternoon to early evening).  Different time zones all affected at once.  Some removed (to where), others left (for what purpose).  Those who "watch and are ready" go to heaven, the others remain on earth.

In Christ

Montana Marv

Greetings Montana Marv

It seems that you are fighting against the prayer of Jesus.  In John 17 Jesus prays to the Father to not take believers out of the world.

John 17:13 And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves.

14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.

16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

The only time of the rapture is at the time that Jesus spoke of and that is at the last day or the final resurrection.  John 6:

John 6:38-40 King James Version (KJV)

38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

There is not a resurrection that comes before the end of the thousand years that is big enough to qualify as the dead in Christ shall rise.  

I believe that all evil doers and those who do not grieve for the evil that is upon the earth will be in the winepress of the wrath of God.  Believers with the mark of God will be safe and will be upon the earth to go into the thousand year reign. Rev 7: 3 & Rev 9:4

7:1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,

3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

Rev 9: 4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

This is a time such as is recorded in Ezekiel 9.

Ezekiel 9 King James Version (KJV)

9:1 He cried also in mine ears with a loud voice, saying, Cause them that have charge over the city to draw near, even every man with his destroying weapon in his hand.

2 And, behold, six men came from the way of the higher gate, which lieth toward the north, and every man a slaughter weapon in his hand; and one man among them was clothed with linen, with a writer's inkhorn by his side: and they went in, and stood beside the brazen altar.

3 And the glory of the God of Israel was gone up from the cherub, whereupon he was, to the threshold of the house. And he called to the man clothed with linen, which had the writer's inkhorn by his side;

4 And the Lord said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof.

5 And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity:

6 Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house.

7 And he said unto them, Defile the house, and fill the courts with the slain: go ye forth. And they went forth, and slew in the city.

8 And it came to pass, while they were slaying them, and I was left, that I fell upon my face, and cried, and said, Ah Lord God! wilt thou destroy all the residue of Israel in thy pouring out of thy fury upon Jerusalem?

9 Then said he unto me, The iniquity of the house of Israel and Judah is exceeding great, and the land is full of blood, and the city full of perverseness: for they say, The Lord hath forsaken the earth, and the Lord seeth not.

10 And as for me also, mine eye shall not spare, neither will I have pity, but I will recompense their way upon their head.

11 And, behold, the man clothed with linen, which had the inkhorn by his side, reported the matter, saying, I have done as thou hast commanded me.

The people of God are protected from the evil one and from all that is coming upon the earth by the mark of God in their forehead.  

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15 hours ago, Jostler said:

tares and chaff are not the same thing....TOTALLY different operations related to the harvest

Yes you are correct.  The tares are imitation wheat that grows along side the wheat but bears no fruit.  They look the same until the time of the harvest.  The chaff is a part of the wheat that is separated from the the wheat berry.  The chaff would include the stem and the husk that the wheat grows inside of.  This is a picture of wheat one month before harvest.

220px-Green_wheat.jpg

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