The word "first resurrection" in Rev 20 which mislead many

[Diaste]

16 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

Your Rev 20:12 reads a lot different than others.  And the books were opened, Another book was opened, which is the Book of Life.  The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. (Notice not the Book of Life).  This is the Great White Throne Judgment which is for Unbelievers, or the Unjust. This is the Final Final judgment.  Those who are in the books are not in the Book of Life.  The books show all they have done, the chances they have had, and each individual failed and was considered Unjust.

In Christ

Montana Marv

Well, it's not my book , is it? 

So is it said that a name cannot be added to the Book of life, or taken away? 

Is there a passage or a verse in scripture that says, "Those who are in the books are not in the Book of Life" ? That looks like an assumption to me.

It seems like a big waste of effort if not one person could be judged righteous at the GWT judgment. All that would have to happen is look for the name in the Book of Life, it's alphabetical I assume, if not found then...The idea you present about showing people how they fell short and why is probably valid as this is a court of law and charges and evidence must be presented to the defendant. But an element is missing here that I find interesting, no prosecutor, no DA. Satan is cast out and defeated, consumed by fire in all likelihood. Not that it matters, it's just interesting.

Matt 25:31-46 is the GWT judgment. You can see for yourself there are sheep and goats. Verse 46 says some go to eternal punishment and some enter the kingdom. The difference between salvation and avoiding the 2nd death at the 2nd resurrection is; 

Salvation at the great white throne judgment

For I was hungry and you gave Me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave Me something to drink, I was a stranger and you took Me in, I was naked and you clothed Me, I was sick and you looked after Me, I was in prison and you visited Me.’

And the King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of Mine, you did for Me.’

Punishment at the great white throne judgment

For I was hungry and you gave Me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave Me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, I was naked and you did not clothe Me, I was sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’

And they too will reply, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’

Then the King will answer, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for Me.’

I would think that if these good deeds are found in the book the name of the person is added to the book of life and the are told,

"Come, you who are blessed by My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world."

 

 

[Montana Marv]

2 hours ago, Diaste said:

Well, it's not my book , is it? 

So is it said that a name cannot be added to the Book of life, or taken away? 

Is there a passage or a verse in scripture that says, "Those who are in the books are not in the Book of Life" ? That looks like an assumption to me.

It seems like a big waste of effort if not one person could be judged righteous at the GWT judgment. All that would have to happen is look for the name in the Book of Life, it's alphabetical I assume, if not found then...The idea you present about showing people how they fell short and why is probably valid as this is a court of law and charges and evidence must be presented to the defendant. But an element is missing here that I find interesting, no prosecutor, no DA. Satan is cast out and defeated, consumed by fire in all likelihood. Not that it matters, it's just interesting.

Matt 25:31-46 is the GWT judgment. You can see for yourself there are sheep and goats. Verse 46 says some go to eternal punishment and some enter the kingdom. The difference between salvation and avoiding the 2nd death at the 2nd resurrection is; 

Salvation at the great white throne judgment

For I was hungry and you gave Me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave Me something to drink, I was a stranger and you took Me in, I was naked and you clothed Me, I was sick and you looked after Me, I was in prison and you visited Me.’

And the King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of Mine, you did for Me.’

Punishment at the great white throne judgment

For I was hungry and you gave Me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave Me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, I was naked and you did not clothe Me, I was sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’

And they too will reply, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’

Then the King will answer, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for Me.’

I would think that if these good deeds are found in the book the name of the person is added to the book of life and the are told,

"Come, you who are blessed by My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world."

 

 

Did you read JoeCanada's list above.  90 percent say "another book was open, the Book of Life".  The Book of Life is not part of these other "books", but separate.  There is no salvation at the Great White Throne Judgment, for this group came out from death and Hades.  Their actions have already been judged.  They are the Unjust.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Marilyn C]

14 hours ago, R. Hartono said:

Mat 24:31 is about the rapture of the church, not the 2nd coming of Christ to judge people.

Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Hi R. H,

The elect are also Israel and that is who the Lord is talking to in Matthew as the Body of Christ was not revealed as scripture tells us.

`For Jacob my servant`s sake, and Israel my ELECT.` (Isa. 45: 4)

Marilyn.

[Marilyn C]

14 hours ago, R. Hartono said:

^{Eph 5:23} For the husband is the head of the wife just as Christ is the head of the church,

The church is the wife of Christ,

The Bride is those who inherit the New Jerusalem, not only Jews.

Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

... And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife. And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God

Hi RH,

The New Jerusalem is only described AS a bride, it is NOT a bride it is a CITY. The glory is described AS a bride.

As for Eph. 5, that is an exhortation for husbands to love their wives as Christ does HIS BODY, (masculine). The Lord does NOT marry anyone let alone millions and millions of people. Nonsense. Do you tell the unsaved man, come to Christ and be His bride. I bet you do not! Sounds very transgender to me.

You don`t build a doctrine on one scripture let alone an exhortation. The Apostle Paul had just written 4 chapters of Ephesians teaching the doctrine of the NEW MAN - Jews and Gentiles. He does not then say that we change sex to a female!

Marilyn.

[Retrobyter]

On 3/15/2019 at 12:54 AM, R. Hartono said:

The resurrection in Revelation 20 is not the same as the rapture is that it is simply a resurrection only. These Tribulation Saints died because they refused to worship the image of the beast or take the mark of the beast, and they are not "caught up" to meet Jesus in the air as we see in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18. They are resurrected, and remain on earth to rule and reign with Christ for 1000 years. They are NOT the Church!

Shalom, R. Hartono.

You're thinking two-dimensionally (which is a DIRECT result of all the time-line charts we were shown as kids or at least young Christians). In fact, time is the FOURTH dimension!

There are three measurable dimensions in which we experience life: length, width, and depth (or height, depending on your perspective). We see these three dimensions because of our binocular sight (two eyes). However, when we have a particular 3-D scenario at one moment of time and then a second, slightly different 3-D scenario at the next moment in time, we are experiencing the FOURTH dimension - the SHIFT in 3-D along the "timeline." When we watch a ball bouncing across a room diagonally, we see the ball changing directions along the length of the room, along the width of the room, and vertically as it bounces up and down, but it takes the strobe effect of stop-action photography to see the ball's movement through time.

Here's an example:

bouncing ball strobe By MichaelMaggs Edit by Richard Bartz - Own work, CC BY-SA 3.0, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=2880974

The point is this: The "Rapture" will be a GLOBAL event that occurs around the world such that all are gathered in a short amount of time.

The thing to remember about this image (that I used to use as an avatar) is that movement is FROM the left to the right along the white lines. When Yeshua` returns, He will send out His messengers around the globe to gather His chosen ones - His elect - and gather them to Himself in the skies above Israel.

The beheaded saints shall be resurrected WITH the rest of those in the First Resurrection! Revelation 20 is not JUST about the beheaded saints; John just makes it a point to say that they are INCLUDED in the First Resurrection!

Revelation 20:4-6 (KJV)

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 (But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.) This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Verse 6 is about EVERYONE who shall participate in the First Resurrection!

[Retrobyter]

19 hours ago, Diaste said:

Well, it's not my book , is it? 

So is it said that a name cannot be added to the Book of life, or taken away? 

Is there a passage or a verse in scripture that says, "Those who are in the books are not in the Book of Life" ? That looks like an assumption to me.

It seems like a big waste of effort if not one person could be judged righteous at the GWT judgment. All that would have to happen is look for the name in the Book of Life, it's alphabetical I assume, if not found then...The idea you present about showing people how they fell short and why is probably valid as this is a court of law and charges and evidence must be presented to the defendant. But an element is missing here that I find interesting, no prosecutor, no DA. Satan is cast out and defeated, consumed by fire in all likelihood. Not that it matters, it's just interesting.

Matt 25:31-46 is the GWT judgment. You can see for yourself there are sheep and goats. Verse 46 says some go to eternal punishment and some enter the kingdom. The difference between salvation and avoiding the 2nd death at the 2nd resurrection is; 

Salvation at the great white throne judgment

For I was hungry and you gave Me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave Me something to drink, I was a stranger and you took Me in, I was naked and you clothed Me, I was sick and you looked after Me, I was in prison and you visited Me.’

And the King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of Mine, you did for Me.’

Punishment at the great white throne judgment

For I was hungry and you gave Me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave Me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, I was naked and you did not clothe Me, I was sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’

And they too will reply, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’

Then the King will answer, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for Me.’

I would think that if these good deeds are found in the book the name of the person is added to the book of life and the are told,

"Come, you who are blessed by My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world."

Shalom, Diaste.

Matthew 25, part of the Olivet Discourse given by Yeshua` before His death, is NOT about the Great White Throne Judgment. It shall occur at the BEGINNING of the Millennium after His Return!

Observe:

Matthew 25:31-33 (KJV)

31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: 32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

This passage is talking about a WAR TRIBUNAL that He shall hold against those who fought against Him (or for Him) when He returned in His zeal to rescue and deliver His people Israel!

This is talking about the valley of the King's judgment outside of Jerusalem in the Valley of Y'howshafat, also called the Kidron (Qidrown) Valley. When facing Jerusalem, the left is Gei-Hinnowm or the Valley of (the son of) Hinnom, where they have burned trash and executed criminals, and where children were once burned in sacrifice to Molech. On the right is the entrance to the Old City through the Golden Gate and to the Temple Mount.

[Diaste]

3 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Matthew 25:31-33 (KJV)

31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: 32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

This passage is talking about a WAR TRIBUNAL that He shall hold against those who fought against Him (or for Him) when He returned in His zeal to rescue and deliver His people Israel!

This is talking about the valley of the King's judgment outside of Jerusalem in the Valley of Y'howshafat, also called the Kidron (Qidrown) Valley. When facing Jerusalem, the left is Gei-Hinnowm or the Valley of (the son of) Hinnom, where they have burned trash and executed criminals, and where children were once burned in sacrifice to Molech. On the right is the entrance to the Old City through the Golden Gate and to the Temple Mount.

I suppose the possibility exists this is before the Millennium but since this is a statement of facts of events after Christ comes we don't know just when verse 32 occurs from this passage alone. Clearly this is a judgment in Matt 25 with requisite consequences, and the only other passage I know of about any judgement at the end of days is Rev 20

"And there were open books, and one of them was the book of life. And the dead were judged according to their deeds, as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up its dead, and Death and Hades gave up their dead, and each one was judged according to his deeds."

The idea 'judged according to his deeds' mirrors Matt 25:31-46 as the deeds of the judged are listed here. Those who engage in those deeds are righteous and those who do not are not known to Christ.

So then this judgement occurs at the end of the 1000 years because I see evidence for that, and I do not see evidence apart from Matt 25:31-32 for a 'war tribunal' staged only for those who fought against Christ in the valley of decision. I'm pretty sure they made their choice and died in allegiance to the beast. Maybe.

[Retrobyter]

1 hour ago, Diaste said:

I suppose the possibility exists this is before the Millennium but since this is a statement of facts of events after Christ comes we don't know just when verse 32 occurs from this passage alone. Clearly this is a judgment in Matt 25 with requisite consequences, and the only other passage I know of about any judgement at the end of days is Rev 20

"And there were open books, and one of them was the book of life. And the dead were judged according to their deeds, as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up its dead, and Death and Hades gave up their dead, and each one was judged according to his deeds."

The idea 'judged according to his deeds' mirrors Matt 25:31-46 as the deeds of the judged are listed here. Those who engage in those deeds are righteous and those who do not are not known to Christ.

So then this judgement occurs at the end of the 1000 years because I see evidence for that, and I do not see evidence apart from Matt 25:31-32 for a 'war tribunal' staged only for those who fought against Christ in the valley of decision. I'm pretty sure they made their choice and died in allegiance to the beast. Maybe.

Shalom, Diaste.

There are both internal evidences and external evidences that Matthew 25 is about a war tribunal. First, the internal evidences are ...

1. This judgment is against NATIONS, not individuals. 

Matthew 25: (KJV)

31 "When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: 32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them (the nations) one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left."

2. When He addresses them, He addresses them as GROUPS of people. 

One of the reasons for KEEPING the KJV is that it shows the original division between number in the second person that the English language used to possess. The "thee's" and "thou's" and "thy's" and "thine's" are SINGULAR. The "ye's" and "you's" and "your's" and "yours's" are PLURAL. These mirror the Greek word, humin, and the 2nd-person, plural verbs ending in "-te" and "-the":

This is true for the sheep...

Matthew 25:34-40 (KJV)

34 "Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand,

'Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: 36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.'

37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying,

'Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? 39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?'

40 And the King shall answer and say unto them,

'Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.'"

And, it is true for the goats...

Matthew 25:41-45 (KJV)

41 "Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand,

'Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.'

44 Then shall they also answer him, saying,

'Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?'

45 Then shall he answer them, saying,

'Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.'"

3. When it comes to their sentencing, they are NOT "thrown into the Lake of Fire" at that time. No angels (messengers) pick them up and throw them in (at least, not at THAT time):

Matthew 25:46 (KJV)

46 And these shall go away (Greek: apeleusontai, the future, indicative, middle voice, third person, plural of aperchomai = "to go away from" or "to depart" or "to go off") into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

There are also external evidences to which you even alluded when you said, "in the valley of decision":

Joel 3:1-16 (KJV)

1 "For, behold, in those days, and in that time, when I shall bring again the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem, 2 I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land.

3 And they have cast lots for my people; and have given (traded) a boy for an harlot, and sold a girl for wine, that they might drink.

4 Yea, and what have ye to do with me, O Tyre, and Zidon, and all the coasts of Palestine? will ye render me a recompence ("pay me back for wrongs done to you")? and if ye recompense me, swiftly and speedily will I return your recompence upon your own head ("I'll turn it around and pay YOU back for wrongs done to ME"); 5 Because ye have taken my silver and my gold, and have carried into your temples my goodly pleasant things: 6 The children also of Judah and the children of Jerusalem have ye sold unto the Grecians, that ye might remove them far from their border. 7 Behold, I will raise them out of the place whither ye have sold them, and will return your recompence upon your own head: 8 And I will sell your sons and your daughters into the hand of the children of Judah, and they shall sell them to the Sabeans, to a people far off:" for the LORD hath spoken it.

9 Proclaim ye this among the Gentiles (non-Israeli nations); Prepare war, wake up the mighty men, let all the men of war draw near; let them come up:

10 Beat your plowshares into swords, and your pruninghooks into spears: let the weak say, I am strong.

11 Assemble yourselves, and come, all ye heathen, and gather yourselves together round about: thither cause thy mighty ones to come down, O LORD.

12 "Let the heathen be wakened, and come up to the valley of Jehoshaphat: for there will I sit to judge all the heathen round about."

13 Put ye in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe: come, get you down; for the press is full, the fats overflow; for their wickedness is great.

14 Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision.

15 The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.

16 The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel.

And, we know this is Yeshua` the Messiah doing the talking above because He has said,

John 5:22-23 (KJV)

22 "For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him."

So, Yo'el's ("Joel's") prophecy in Joel 3 is also about such a war tribunal that shall occur when "when [Yeshua`] shall bring again the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem!"

[Retrobyter]

2 hours ago, Diaste said:

I suppose the possibility exists this is before the Millennium but since this is a statement of facts of events after Christ comes we don't know just when verse 32 occurs from this passage alone. Clearly this is a judgment in Matt 25 with requisite consequences, and the only other passage I know of about any judgement at the end of days is Rev 20

"And there were open books, and one of them was the book of life. And the dead were judged according to their deeds, as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up its dead, and Death and Hades gave up their dead, and each one was judged according to his deeds."

The idea 'judged according to his deeds' mirrors Matt 25:31-46 as the deeds of the judged are listed here. Those who engage in those deeds are righteous and those who do not are not known to Christ.

So then this judgement occurs at the end of the 1000 years because I see evidence for that, and I do not see evidence apart from Matt 25:31-32 for a 'war tribunal' staged only for those who fought against Christ in the valley of decision. I'm pretty sure they made their choice and died in allegiance to the beast. Maybe.

Shalom, again, Diaste.

I would be remiss to neglect telling you that the Millennium will be FULL of judgments and resurrections on a personal scale! What do you think an Israeli King is? He is a JUDGE! Part of his job is to be the nation's "supreme court judge," making the decisions that lesser judges will have to refer to him. This will be true for Yeshua` the Messiah when HE become "haMelekh Yisra'el" or "the King of Israel."

This will not only be a Judge for the nation Israel, but for all the nations He conquers or annexes as He becomes "World Emperor" ("King of kings!")

When His disciples were with Him in His First Coming (His First Advent), He gave them power as human beings to "raise the dead!"

Matthew 10:5-7 (KJV)

5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying,

"Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: 6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand. 8Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give. ..."

Do you think it would be any different when they themselves are raised from the dead?

Paul tells us this:

1 Corinthians 15:42-49 (KJV)

42 So also is the resurrection of the dead.

It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory:
it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 
44 It is sown a natural (an air-breathing) body; it is raised a spiritual (a wind-blasting) body.

There is a natural body (an air-breathing body), and there is a spiritual body (a wind-blasting body). 

45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul (Gen. 2:7 Hebrew "nefesh" = "an air-breathing creature"); the last Adam was made a quickening (life-giving) spirit. 46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. 48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. 49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

[Diaste]

3 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Diaste.

There are both internal evidences and external evidences that Matthew 25 is about a war tribunal. First, the internal evidences are ...

1. This judgment is against NATIONS, not individuals. 

Matthew 25: (KJV)

31 "When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: 32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them (the nations) one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left."

2. When He addresses them, He addresses them as GROUPS of people. 

One of the reasons for KEEPING the KJV is that it shows the original division between number in the second person that the English language used to possess. The "thee's" and "thou's" and "thy's" and "thine's" are SINGULAR. The "ye's" and "you's" and "your's" and "yours's" are PLURAL. These mirror the Greek word, humin, and the 2nd-person, plural verbs ending in "-te" and "-the":

This is true for the sheep...

Matthew 25:34-40 (KJV)

34 "Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand,

'Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: 36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.'

37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying,

'Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? 39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?'

40 And the King shall answer and say unto them,

'Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.'"

And, it is true for the goats...

Matthew 25:41-45 (KJV)

41 "Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand,

'Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.'

44 Then shall they also answer him, saying,

'Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?'

45 Then shall he answer them, saying,

'Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.'"

3. When it comes to their sentencing, they are NOT "thrown into the Lake of Fire" at that time. No angels (messengers) pick them up and throw them in (at least, not at THAT time):

Matthew 25:46 (KJV)

46 And these shall go away (Greek: apeleusontai, the future, indicative, middle voice, third person, plural of aperchomai = "to go away from" or "to depart" or "to go off") into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

There are also external evidences to which you even alluded when you said, "in the valley of decision":

Joel 3:1-16 (KJV)

1 "For, behold, in those days, and in that time, when I shall bring again the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem, 2 I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land.

3 And they have cast lots for my people; and have given (traded) a boy for an harlot, and sold a girl for wine, that they might drink.

4 Yea, and what have ye to do with me, O Tyre, and Zidon, and all the coasts of Palestine? will ye render me a recompence ("pay me back for wrongs done to you")? and if ye recompense me, swiftly and speedily will I return your recompence upon your own head ("I'll turn it around and pay YOU back for wrongs done to ME"); 5 Because ye have taken my silver and my gold, and have carried into your temples my goodly pleasant things: 6 The children also of Judah and the children of Jerusalem have ye sold unto the Grecians, that ye might remove them far from their border. 7 Behold, I will raise them out of the place whither ye have sold them, and will return your recompence upon your own head: 8 And I will sell your sons and your daughters into the hand of the children of Judah, and they shall sell them to the Sabeans, to a people far off:" for the LORD hath spoken it.

9 Proclaim ye this among the Gentiles (non-Israeli nations); Prepare war, wake up the mighty men, let all the men of war draw near; let them come up:

10 Beat your plowshares into swords, and your pruninghooks into spears: let the weak say, I am strong.

11 Assemble yourselves, and come, all ye heathen, and gather yourselves together round about: thither cause thy mighty ones to come down, O LORD.

12 "Let the heathen be wakened, and come up to the valley of Jehoshaphat: for there will I sit to judge all the heathen round about."

13 Put ye in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe: come, get you down; for the press is full, the fats overflow; for their wickedness is great.

14 Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision.

15 The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.

16 The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel.

And, we know this is Yeshua` the Messiah doing the talking above because He has said,

John 5:22-23 (KJV)

22 "For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him."

So, Yo'el's ("Joel's") prophecy in Joel 3 is also about such a war tribunal that shall occur when "when [Yeshua`] shall bring again the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem!"

I feel this is just picking and choosing what constitutes the GWT judgment. The GWT judgment occurs after the millennium as stated in scripture. No way around that. Just like there are only two resurrections there is only one GWT judgment; and that court is to judge those people who appear before the bench from the books that are opened, and by those things written in the books. Clearly Matt 25 judges the individuals that make up the nations by their deeds, an allusion to these deeds being recorded, a reference then to the GWT judgment where books have the recorded deeds by which the individuals that make up the nations are judged.