seeking the lost Posted May 27, 2020 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 494 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 208 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/15/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted May 27, 2020 On 3/15/2019 at 5:51 AM, R. Hartono said: If thats true then this verse will happen after the 7 years of great tribulation : 1 Thes 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. question : Why would Jesus need to gather the saints to the clouds to meet Him if the 7 years great tribulation is over, antichrist is dead and the world returns to peace ? Just to make a U Turn in the air to return the saints from the cloud to the earth again ? It seems you are trying very hard with all kinds of mental gymnastics to come up with a cunningly devised story while ignoring even Jesus Himself. Jesus said that those who believe in Him will be raised on the last day. John 6: 53 Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. It is not appropriate to change the meaning of the last day. That day is well defined as the rest of the dead. Revelation 20: 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) It is very important that all of us pay attention to the promise of all plagues of this book are to be added to those who add to this book. Revelation 22: 18 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll. 19 And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. Hartono Posted May 27, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 771 Topics Per Day: 0.34 Content Count: 6,934 Content Per Day: 3.07 Reputation: 1,979 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/15/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 27, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, seeking the lost said: It seems you are trying very hard with all kinds of mental gymnastics to come up with a cunningly devised story while ignoring even Jesus Himself. Jesus said that those who believe in Him will be raised on the last day. John 6: 53 Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. It is not appropriate to change the meaning of the last day. That day is well defined as the rest of the dead. Revelation 20: 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) It is very important that all of us pay attention to the promise of all plagues of this book are to be added to those who add to this book. Revelation 22: 18 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll. 19 And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll. The last days r described in Revelation. Its not a single one event n no need to judge people just because u hv different view of end Times. We r all still studying here n nobody is perfect. We don't come here to smash people with threatening verses, as if we live such a holy life n others don't, we don't even know each personal life, don't come like a judge of old Testament cause we are not appointed to. Edited May 28, 2020 by R. Hartono Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeking the lost Posted May 28, 2020 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 494 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 208 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/15/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted May 28, 2020 21 hours ago, R. Hartono said: The last days r described in Revelation. Its not a single one event n no need to judge people just because u hv different view of end Times. We r all still studying here n nobody is perfect. We don't come here to smash people with threatening verses, as if we live such a holy life n others don't, we don't even know each personal life, don't come like a judge of old Testament cause we are not appointed to. Yes the last days are described in the book of Revelation. Jesus was more specific when He said last day singular. These are the words of Jesus, " 40 For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.” Different views are fine as long as someone does not have to add to the text in order to arrive at the view. The threat is not mine it is the warning of the text. The resurrections are clearly defined and numbered which leaves little room for speculation. Revelation 20: 4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They[a] had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years. The first resurrection does not include all the dead in Christ but only those who have been beheaded. There are two things to be observed here, 1) There are no resurrections before this, 2)Everyone that is not raised in this resurrection will be raised at the end of the thousand years. The dead in Christ are to be raised first then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them. 1 Thessalonians 4: 13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. Hartono Posted May 29, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 771 Topics Per Day: 0.34 Content Count: 6,934 Content Per Day: 3.07 Reputation: 1,979 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/15/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 29, 2020 2 hours ago, seeking the lost said: The first resurrection does not include all the dead in Christ but only those who have been beheaded. There are two things to be observed here, 1) There are no resurrections before this, 2)Everyone that is not raised in this resurrection will be raised at the end of the thousand years. The dead in Christ are to be raised first then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them. 1 Thessalonians 4: 13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words. If thats so then the deceased early church / christians since 2000 years ago are not resurrected to rule with Lord Jesus Millennium. Not true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeking the lost Posted May 30, 2020 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 494 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 208 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/15/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted May 30, 2020 On 5/28/2020 at 7:29 PM, R. Hartono said: If thats so then the deceased early church / christians since 2000 years ago are not resurrected to rule with Lord Jesus Millennium. Not true. The words of Jesus seem to be different than your words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. Hartono Posted June 21, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 771 Topics Per Day: 0.34 Content Count: 6,934 Content Per Day: 3.07 Reputation: 1,979 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/15/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted June 21, 2020 On 6/18/2020 at 8:18 AM, Roar said: I believe God and Jesus have it all worked out and somewhere in there I hope to be with Jesus when He descends on Jerusalem. Praise be to our Lord and Savior! It will be after Jesus (taking his raptured saints from heaven in Rev. 19) won the battle of Armageddon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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