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R. Hartono

How could the beast makes war and kill those already caught up to the cloud alive and be with the Lord forever ?

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The beast will make war with the tribulation saints and over come them :

Rev 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

Those saints were beheaded because they do not worship the beast :

Rev 20:4 and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast,

HOW COULD THE BEAST MAKE WAR WITH THE CHURCH IF THEY ARE ALREADY CAUGHT UP TO THE CLOUD ALIVE AND BE WITH THE LORD FOREVER ?

1 Thes 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

THE ONLY EXPLANATION IS THAT THOSE TRIBULATION SAINTS  ARE NOT THE CHURCH OF 1 THES 4:17

THE 2 WITNESSES OF GOD Will ROAM THE EARTH TO GIVE TESTIMONY OF CHRIST AND WIN PEOPLE (TRIBULATION SAINTS)

THE TRIBULATION SAINTS BEHEADED BY THE BEAST ARE NOT THE CHURCH OF 1 THES 4:17 EXACTLY !!!

 

Edited by R. Hartono
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3 hours ago, R. Hartono said:

The beast will make war with the tribulation saints and over come them :

Rev 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

Those saints were beheaded because they do not worship the beast :

Rev 20:4 and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast,

HOW COULD THE BEAST MAKE WAR WITH THE CHURCH IF THEY ARE ALREADY CAUGHT UP TO THE CLOUD ALIVE AND BE WITH THE LORD FOREVER ?

1 Thes 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

THE ONLY EXPLANATION IS THAT THOSE TRIBULATION SAINTS  ARE NOT THE CHURCH OF 1 THES 4:17

THE 2 WITNESSES OF GOD Will ROAM THE EARTH TO GIVE TESTIMONY OF CHRIST AND WIN PEOPLE (TRIBULATION SAINTS)

THE TRIBULATION SAINTS BEHEADED BY THE BEAST ARE NOT THE CHURCH OF 1 THES 4:17 EXACTLY !!!

 

Hi R.Hartono,

I agree. Marilyn.

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On 3/15/2019 at 9:25 PM, R. Hartono said:

THE ONLY EXPLANATION IS THAT THOSE TRIBULATION SAINTS  ARE NOT THE CHURCH OF 1 THES 4:17

No, it's just the explanation you prefer.

On 3/15/2019 at 9:25 PM, R. Hartono said:

THE 2 WITNESSES OF GOD Will ROAM THE EARTH TO GIVE TESTIMONY OF CHRIST AND WIN PEOPLE (TRIBULATION SAINTS)

No, there is no scripture that says they will roam the earth; the allusion is they are in Israel, or Jerusalem, exclusively.

On 3/15/2019 at 9:25 PM, R. Hartono said:

THE TRIBULATION SAINTS BEHEADED BY THE BEAST ARE NOT THE CHURCH OF 1 THES 4:17 EXACTLY !!!

Of course not, creating divisions in the body allows for just about any interpretation. 

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11 hours ago, Diaste said:

No, there is no scripture that says they will roam the earth; the allusion is they are in Israel, or Jerusalem, exclusively.

 

The 2 prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth, which clearly shows they will roam the earth.

Rev 11:10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

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On 3/15/2019 at 9:25 PM, R. Hartono said:

The beast will make war with the tribulation saints and over come them :

Rev 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

Those saints were beheaded because they do not worship the beast :

Rev 20:4 and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast,

HOW COULD THE BEAST MAKE WAR WITH THE CHURCH IF THEY ARE ALREADY CAUGHT UP TO THE CLOUD ALIVE AND BE WITH THE LORD FOREVER ?

1 Thes 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

THE ONLY EXPLANATION IS THAT THOSE TRIBULATION SAINTS  ARE NOT THE CHURCH OF 1 THES 4:17

THE 2 WITNESSES OF GOD Will ROAM THE EARTH TO GIVE TESTIMONY OF CHRIST AND WIN PEOPLE (TRIBULATION SAINTS)

THE TRIBULATION SAINTS BEHEADED BY THE BEAST ARE NOT THE CHURCH OF 1 THES 4:17 EXACTLY !!!

 

You start with the presumption that the saints during the time of the tribulation will also be present during the time of the Beast. And then build upon your presumption with further rationalizations.

It is much more useful to start with what you can show, not what you presume. Those who follow the latter course often find they have built upon a foundation of sand.

The last mention of the Great Tribulation is in Rev. 7:14, describing the ascended saints who "came out of the Great Tribulation." The Beast does not appear on the scene until afterwards.

 

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On 3/15/2019 at 8:25 PM, R. Hartono said:

The beast will make war with the tribulation saints and over come them :

Rev 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

Those saints were beheaded because they do not worship the beast :

Rev 20:4 and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast,

HOW COULD THE BEAST MAKE WAR WITH THE CHURCH IF THEY ARE ALREADY CAUGHT UP TO THE CLOUD ALIVE AND BE WITH THE LORD FOREVER ?

1 Thes 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

THE ONLY EXPLANATION IS THAT THOSE TRIBULATION SAINTS  ARE NOT THE CHURCH OF 1 THES 4:17

THE 2 WITNESSES OF GOD Will ROAM THE EARTH TO GIVE TESTIMONY OF CHRIST AND WIN PEOPLE (TRIBULATION SAINTS)

THE TRIBULATION SAINTS BEHEADED BY THE BEAST ARE NOT THE CHURCH OF 1 THES 4:17 EXACTLY !!!

 

Revelation 13:7 This verse deals with the martyrs who are on the earth. They will die for their belief in Christ and will become tribulation saints. 

Revelation 20:4 You are adding your own words to Scripture. I don't see the word "Church" anywhere in the passage. The Church was raptured before the 7 year tribulation started. Only the martyrs remain on earth. 

 

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9 hours ago, R. Hartono said:

The 2 prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth, which clearly shows they will roam the earth.

Rev 11:10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

Won't work in a practical sense. You are contending that to strike the earth with plagues they would have to be local relative to the plague, or withholding the rain. How are they going to be everywhere at once?

They that dwell on the earth is as ambiguous as bi-weekly. Even a remote tribe in SA can be said to dwell on the earth.

I for one will need more evidence.

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On 3/19/2019 at 2:47 AM, Diaste said:

How are they going to be everywhere at once?

 

Like Philip did.

Acts 8:39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.

40 But Philip was found at Azotus: and passing through he preached in all the cities, till he came to Cæsarea.

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