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Daniel 9:27 covenant confirmed by Jesus


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3 hours ago, pinacled said:

Yeshayahu 57

"Whom do you dread and fear, That you tell lies? 
But you gave no thought to Me, You paid no heed. 

It is because I have stood idly by so long That you have no fear of Me."





Kefa said, “Sir, are you telling this parable for our benefit only or for everyone’s?” 
42 The Lord replied, Nu, who is the faithful and sensible manager whose master puts him in charge of the household staff to give them their share of food at the proper time? 43 It will go well with that servant if he is found doing his job when his master comes. 44 Yes, I tell you he will put him in charge of all he owns. 45 But if that servant says to himself, 
‘My master is taking his time coming,’ 
and starts bullying the men- and women-servants, and eating and drinking, getting drunk, 46 then his master will come on a day when the servant isn’t expecting him, at a time he doesn’t know in advance; his master will cut him in two and put him with the disloyal. 47 Now the servant who knew what his master wanted but didn’t prepare or act according to his will, will be whipped with many lashes; 48 however, the one who did what deserves a beating, but didn’t know, will receive few lashes. From him who has been given much, much will be demanded — from someone to whom people entrust much, they ask still more.

 

 

Who is it that does not know what they do?

 

Shalom, pinacled.

You have two groups represented in these passages: In Yesha`yahuw's prophecy, I believe that this passage in 57:11 could apply to the Jews today. They've been without an active God for so long, that many of them have lost the fear of the Living God!

The passage from Luke 12:41-48 is talking about Yeshua`s SERVANTS who are given tasks to perform while He is away. Those who know they are doing wrongly are those who STUBBORNLY resist doing God's Will. They SHALL receive the greater punishment; however, there will be some who are IGNORANTLY disobeying God. They shall still receive correction, but it will be a "lesser whipping."

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On 3/28/2019 at 9:12 PM, pinacled said:

Well, Firstly,

The premise that Yeshua is anything other than The Holy One of Yisrayl will first have to be forgotten before you and i continue a conversation in oil.

Shalom, pinacled.

First, I don't WANT to have a "conversation in oil!" The last time someone said something like that to me was when I used to work for a City Electrician!

He said at the beginning of the day, "Wouldn't it be slicker than snot to re-wire this intersection without having to turn it off?" (He had forgotten to request a policeman or two for flagging.) Well, needless to say, two of us got ZAPPED that day! I was knocked unconscious and landed on the wire! Luckily, most of the juice went into the ground, but I was hit with 220 Volts at 15 Amps! NOT FUN!

You've got to understand that I'm a LITERALIST! A "conversation in oil" sounds like something you'd expect to have at a spa!

(Oh, and by the way, there's only one "yod" in "Yisra'el," and it's at the beginning of the word. It's spelled "yod-chireq-sin-shva-reish-patach-alef-tsere-lamed" in Hebrew (the bold-faced words are the Hebrew letters and the lighter words are the vowel pointing). The "sin-reish" is the word "prince," such as "Sar Shalom" or "Prince of Peace" [just as "sin-reish-hei" is the word "princess" and was what "Sarah" meant], and the "alef-lamed" is the word "God." The "yod" is a prefix added for the part of speech - 3rd-person, masculine, singular - just as the "yod" was added to the beginning of "Yeshua`." It means "he-[is]-." All together, "Yisra'el" means "he-[is]-a-prince-of-God.")

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The provisions of Torah are divinely and freely given. And with the generational ordinances there is what is a known to those who lean on the Lord in the spirit of knowledge(milk) and understanding(honey) a way to Honor the diverse Gifts.

See, now this is what I'm talking about. I'm not "into" these "spiritual" ("allegorical") interpretations of God's Word. I believe they're unnecessary and only serve to confuse the actual text. "Milk and honey," which was how the spies described the Land of Israel, is LITERALLY that! It was a land which had much cattle and they discovered beehives with much honey, as well. Why go "gum that up" with an interpretation that it "really means" "knowledge and understanding?"

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While yes there are those who are stubborn and intentionally ignore the Favor freely given in The Name of the Father, Son and, Ruach Hakodesh. It doesnt matter to those who are sealed and Know that the Armies of the Lord far out number His enemies. To which shows in those who stand firm in Courage and Love.

They are the Ones who have humbly laid the free gift/crown at the Feet of the Holy One of yisrayl.

Okay, look: You can't "humbly" or otherwise "lay the crown at the feet of the Holy One of Yisra'el" UNTIL you actually HAVE a crown! That doesn't happen in human history until AFTER the Messiah has returned, found you consistent ("faithful") in business affairs, and rewards you with rulership over X number of towns!

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Again, i strongly suggest everyone including yourself to never compare the abomination on the corner of the alter to My Savior and King.

Wouldn't think of it! However, this begs the question: "What do you consider 'the abomination on the corner of the altar?'" That's pretty specific for a vague generalization.

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If you would care to continue a walk in prayer, consider this.

Though the Lord hated esav. The Mercy for the third generation seems to me a reconciliation offered to those who are truly innocent.
If a generation sell"s their birth right, over again is the curse applied to that houses' generations.
Hence, "two fold sons of destruction


Devarim 23
No Ammonite or Moabite shall be admitted into the congregation of the LORD; none of their descendants, even in the tenth generation, shall ever be admitted into the congregation [minyan of ten] of the LORD,
}
You shall not abhor an Edomite, for he is your kinsman. You shall not abhor an Egyptian, for you were a stranger in his land.
Children born to them may be admitted into the congregation of the LORD in the third generation.

Don't mix time periods, please.

When Esav and Ya`aqov were alive and Esav sold his birthright for some red soup, this is when it was true that God said, "Ya`aqov I have loved, but Esav have I hated."

Children of "Edowm" (which means "Red") were admitted into the congregation of YHWH in the early years of the children of Yisra'el, probably about 450 to 500 years later after the Exodus because they were close relatives, being the chldren of Edowm or Esav, who was the twin brother of Ya'aqov or Yisra'el. The "Ammonites" and the "Moabites" were descendants of Ben-Ammiy and Mo'aV ("Moab") who were children of Lowt ("Lot"), the nephew of Avraham, and his daughters. They took over the land east of the Yarden (the Jordan) River and were heavily into idolatry. (That land now is called the "Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan," formed after the Balfour Declaration of 1917. This declaration was SUPPOSED to have the results of "Arabs have the land east of the Jordan, Israel has the land west of the Jordan." You can see how THAT worked out!)

Much later and still today, YHWH has a bone to pick with the descendants of Edowm, because they snatched up the land that was abandoned when the children of Yhudah were deported from the Land - YHWH'S Land - by the Romans. Furthermore, they mistreated those who were left in the Land just because they could! From the land of the Edomites or Idumea, came Herod the Great, who attempted to kill Yeshua` when He was less than 2 years old! When Yeshua` returns, the first place He will hit is Botsrah, Edowm! (Isa. 34:6.)

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Further more, consider a promise given to chavah mother of all living and her husband also. The first living soul Adam.
From the perspective of the Lords promise of salvation(Yeshua) there is in no way I can personally deny such an oral or written Torah. To do so would be a blasphemy of the Favor(grace) and equal scales of justice. To deny the purity of wisdom, no. That to me is likened to ignore every prophet that spoke in the name of the Holy One. And further more deny a promised inheritance.
Though there are a diversity of gifts.
I personally find it impossible to deny the most important gift.

Blessed be He that was, is, and is to come. 

Personally i believe the inheritance promised has been since the beginning.
Since the promise was carried by havel then sheth till the tenth generation..
also, i do not consider adam and chavah to be liars, what so ever.
In actuality i thought they where the ones that the Lord went to release.

“Whoever wants to love life and see good days
must keep his tongue from evil and his lips from speaking deceit,
11 turn from evil and do good,
seek peace and chase after it.
12 For Adonai keeps his eyes on the righteous,
and his ears are open to their prayers;
but the face of Adonai is against
those who do evil things.”


13 For who will hurt you if you become zealots for what is good? 14 But even if you do suffer for being righteous, you are blessed! Moreover, don’t fear what they fear or be disturbed, 15 but treat the Messiah as holy, as Lord in your hearts; while remaining always ready to give a reasoned answer to anyone who asks you to explain the hope you have in you — yet with humility and fear, 16 keeping your conscience clear, so that when you are spoken against, those who abuse the good behavior flowing from your union with the Messiah may be put to shame. 17 For if God has in fact willed that you should suffer, it is better that you suffer for doing what is good than for doing what is evil.

18 For the Messiah himself died for sins, once and for all, a righteous person on behalf of unrighteous people, so that he might bring you to God. He was put to death in the flesh but brought to life by the Spirit; 
19 and in this form he went and made a proclamation to the imprisoned spirits, 
20 to those who were disobedient long ago, in the days of Noach, when God waited patiently during the building of the ark, in which a few people — to be specific, eight — were delivered by means of water.

 

 

Blessings Always

 

God created Adam from the dust of the ground, breathed into his nostrils the puff of life, and Adam became a living soul - a living air-breather. He doesn't exist apart from his body because he IS his body! (Gen. 2:7.)

It is the confusion of Greek mythology and philosophy added in the 100s and 200s A.D. that has given us the idea that we are "eternal spirit creatures" that inhabit a body and "go to Heaven" when our bodies die. No passage of Scripture supports that idea. For instance,

Ecclesiastes 9:9-10 (KJV)

9 Live joyfully with the wife whom thou lovest all the days of the life of thy vanity, which he hath given thee under the sun, all the days of thy vanity: for that is thy portion in this life, and in thy labour which thou takest under the sun.

10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.

Since we ARE our bodies, when we die, we cease to be living air-breathers - living "souls" - and we go into the ground to decay and disintegrate.

Now, that may SEEM hopeless and a dark future, BUT,...

When the Messiah died, He changed all that! He led the way in His Resurrection! He came back to life, to be a living air-breather, scratch that, a life-giving air-BLASTER (1 Cor. 15:45), and when He returns, He will resurrect those who are His at the first general resurrection (1 Cor. 15:21-23). When that happens and we begin our eternal existence as resurrected bodies, THEN we can say that we are "eternal souls"; we will just have a different way of processing energy. We will absorb our light directly from the Lord, but we will radiate light in the visible spectrum and not just in the infrared region. The word "glory" (Greek: "doxa") means "to stand out as very apparent," like a star on the black background of space.

1 Corinthians 15:40-44 (KJV)

40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. 41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.

42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body (Greek sooma psuchikon = "an air-breathing body"), and there is a spiritual body (Greek: sooma pneumatikon = "a-wind-blowing body").

All the words underlined above are the Greek word "doxa":

1391 doxa (dox'-ah). From the base of dokeoo; glory (as very apparent), in a wide application (literal or figurative, objective or subjective) -- dignity, glory(-ious), honour, praise, worship.

1380 dokeoo (dok-eh'-o). A prolonged form of a primary verb, dokoo (dok'-o) (used only in an alternate in certain tenses; compare the base of deiknuoo) of the same meaning; to think; by implication, to seem (truthfully or uncertainly) -- be accounted, (of own) please(-ure), be of reputation, seem (good), suppose, think, trow.

1166 deiknuoo (dike-noo'-o). A prolonged form of an obsolete primary of the same meaning; to show (literally or figuratively) -- shew.

So, you see, the above scenario offered by the somewhat obscure passage of Scripture cannot be as you paint it. Instead, one should re-evaluate the interpretation of this passage in light of other Scriptures!

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On 3/27/2019 at 7:01 AM, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, DonkeySpeaksAgain.

Um. No. It doesn't count.

1 Samuel 16:6-13 (KJV)

6 And it came to pass, when they were come, that he looked on Eliab, and said,

"Surely the LORD'S anointed is before him."

7 But the LORD said unto Samuel,

"Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart."

8 Then Jesse called Abinadab, and made him pass before Samuel. And he said,

"Neither hath the LORD chosen this."

9 Then Jesse made Shammah to pass by. And he said,

"Neither hath the LORD chosen this."

10 Again, Jesse made seven of his sons to pass before Samuel. And Samuel said unto Jesse,

"The LORD hath not chosen these."

11 And Samuel said unto Jesse,

"Are here all thy children?"

And he said,

"There remaineth yet the youngest, and, behold, he keepeth the sheep."

And Samuel said unto Jesse,

"Send and fetch him: for we will not sit down till he come hither."

12 And he sent, and brought him in. Now he was ruddy, and withal of a beautiful countenance, and goodly to look to. And the LORD said,

"Arise, anoint him: for this is he."

13 Then Samuel took the horn of oil, and anointed him in the midst of his brethren: and the Spirit of the LORD came upon David from that day forward. So Samuel rose up, and went to Ramah.

And then, we read this:

2 Samuel 2:1-4 (KJV)

1 And it came to pass after this, that David inquired of the LORD, saying,

"Shall I go up into any of the cities of Judah?"

And the LORD said unto him,

"Go up."

And David said,

"Whither shall I go up?"

And he said,

"Unto Hebron."

2 So David went up thither, and his two wives also, Ahinoam the Jezreelitess, and Abigail Nabal's wife the Carmelite. 3 And his men that were with him did David bring up, every man with his household: and they dwelt in the cities of Hebron. 4 And the men of Judah came, and there they anointed David king over the house of Judah.

And,

2 Samuel 5:1-3 (KJV)

1 Then came all the tribes of Israel to David unto Hebron, and spake, saying,

"Behold, we are thy bone and thy flesh. 2 Also in time past, when Saul was king over us, thou wast he that leddest out and broughtest in Israel: and the LORD said to thee, 'Thou shalt feed my people Israel, and thou shalt be a captain over Israel.'" 

3 So all the elders of Israel came to the king to Hebron; and king David made a league with them in Hebron before the LORD: and they anointed David king over Israel.

God's choosing is important and is necessary for the designation of whom He has chosen to be the king, but the people ALSO had to accept him as their king. This they did NOT do for Yeshua` God's Christos - God's Messiah - God's Anointed One.

Shalom,

Of course, they WILL accept Jesus BEFORE the end of the 'week', BUT The actual anointing has already been done. John the Baptist was a true prophet of God and one could argue that a primary purpose for his baptisms was to reveal the Messiah.

 

Accepting Jesus is associated with the "end of transgression" as outlined below...

"TRANSGRESSION

trans-gresh'-un:

From "transgress," to pass over or beyond; to overpass, as any rule prescribed as the limit of duty; to break or violate, as a law, civil or moral; the act of transgressing; the violation of a law or known principle of rectitude; breach of command; offense; crime; sin. In the Old Testament pesha`, occurs 80 times, rendered in all versions by "transgression." Its meaning is "rebellion". The word "rebellion" differs from this word in that it may be in the heart, though no opportunity should be granted for its manifestation: "An evil man seeketh only rebellion" (Proverbs 17:11). 

David Roberts Dungan"

The "rebellion" (or 'transgression') of refusing to accept Jesus as the promised Messiah ENDS in the FUTURE at the END of the 70th week. Interesting that it is listed FIRST, while the "anointing" is listed LAST - but the anointing actually occurs FIRST.

 

The second and third stipulations say they must "make an end of sins" AND "make reconciliation for iniquity". While the case can be made through using NT teaching that "sin" remains ONLY for as long as unbelief remains,... the idea that reconciliation (payment for sin) is also made in the same way cannot be accepted. The cross (the ONLY acceptable payment for ALL sin) occurs at the midpoint of the 70th week and marks the START of the "transgression". 

 

The point is, where is this "Anointing" shown in Revelation (or OT prophecies)? The only anointing of Jesus seen in prophecy comes at the START of the 70th week (when Jesus is baptized). 

I find it interesting to read the six stipulations backwards and see the fulfillment in that way as well. 

6) the anointing (baptism - start of the 70th week)

5) sealing up vision and prophecy ('hiding' the Messiah from the Jews)

4) bring in everlasting righteousness (presenting the Gospel) (this can be seen as happening at the end of the 70th week, but the problem with that is ALL prophecy DOES NOT end at the START of the millennium - everlasting righteousness is NOT seen in prophecy until possibly the very end of the millennium, so, within the context of the 70 weeks, we must conclude it is referring to something else - something 'Spiritual' rather than physical)

3) make reconciliation for iniquity (the cross) 

2) make an end of sin (faith in Jesus - as represented by the Church Age) 

1) finish the transgression (Jews finally accept Jesus = end of tribulation period)(The ONLY 'thing' left for the Jews or the city to accomplish is the acceptance of Jesus)

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On 3/27/2019 at 11:24 AM, pinacled said:

No, wrong altar.

Hence the whore is devoured by its own.

 

On 3/27/2019 at 11:24 AM, pinacled said:

DONKEYSPEAKSAGAIN said...

וְעַד־כָּלָה֙

committee of the bride

 

??????????

Can't this be translated as "committee - bride"?

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On 3/28/2019 at 12:10 PM, Montana Marv said:

It cannot be:  For anoint the Most Holy is number six on the list, not number one on the list.  They are in their order for a reason.  To anoint the Most Holy follows to bring in everlasting righteousness.  The nation and city of Daniel must first rid them self of transgression, sin and wickedness, then they end vision and prophecy (all according to Zech 13).  Then they are ushered into a time of everlasting righteousness, which is followed by Anointing Jesus Christ as their Messiah so He can be King over them forever.

In Christ

Montana Marv

Zech 13???

Sure, it points to the 2nd coming but I don't see the "anointing" - only the acceptance of Jesus which will end the rebellion/transgression. I just posted more on this topic so I won't repeat it again.

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2 minutes ago, pinacled said:

perhaps in the sense that the ___ devour the ----- that is their mother by commiting an unspeakable sin.

Hence the ten crowns of blasphemy..

Are you attempting to compare my King and savior with the abomination of desolation?

Yes, no?

 

 

Not at all!!! I am fighting a similar fight against those who are replacing the fulfillment of Messianic prophecy as being fulfilled by the A/C. 

My point, in this case, is that the Hebrew words MAY (?) be translated as "committee of the bride". In which case it would point to the "rapture" in this part of the sentence instead of (I think it is commonly said to say) "consummation"?  I believe you seem to be knowledgeable about the Hebrew language (as well as many others on this platform) and could possibly look closer at this without pre-conceived ideas about what it says. 

If anybody else wants to weigh in on this, please do. It would be greatly appreciated.

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On 3/31/2019 at 6:35 PM, pinacled said:

Thank you for the clarity. 

I regain from speaking of certain things.

I would rather share The Noble thoughts and blessings freely received.

 

So, what about the phrase וְעַד־כָּלָה֙ ?

Can this be translated as committee of the bride? If so, it would replace the word "consummation". 

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23 hours ago, DonkeySpeaksAgain said:

So, what about the phrase וְעַד־כָּלָה֙ ?

Can this be translated as committee of the bride? If so, it would replace the word "consummation". 

Shabbat shalom, DonkeySpeaksAgain.

Well, according to Google Translate, it means "And so on."

Actually, the word "kaalaah" means... 

3617 kaalaah (kaw-law', as a feminine noun). From kaalaah; a completion; adverb, completely; also destruction
-- altogether, (be, utterly) consume(-d), consummation(-ption), was determined, (full, utter) end, riddance. (A feminine noun.)

3615 kaalaah (kaw-law', as a verb). A primitive root; to end, whether intransitive (to cease, be finished, perish) or transitive (to complete, prepare, consume)
-- accomplish, cease, consume (away), determine, destroy (utterly), be (when... Were) done, (be an) end (of), expire, (cause to) fail, faint, finish, fulfil, X fully, X have, leave (off), long, bring to pass, wholly reap, make clean riddance, spend, quite take away, waste.

So, where did you get this nonsense of "kaalaah" means the "bride?" "'Consummating' the marriage?"

No, I see. From the "family" of these two words in the Hebrew Dictionary of Strong's Concordance:

3618 kallaah (kal-law'). From kaalal; a bride (as if perfect); hence, a son's wife -- bride, daughter-in-law, spouse.

3634 kaalal (kaw-lal'). A primitive root; to complete -- (make) perfect.

(I truly miss not being able to change colors in edit mode!)

However, the two are not truly related in character ... nor in origin. One is the use of a primitive verb as a feminine noun, and the other is the femininizing of a different verb, even though the two root words LOOK like they're related. The first means "to end" and the second means "to complete," even "to crown (a bride)," if you follow the Arabic equivalent pointed out in Brown-Driver-Briggs.

It's a subtle difference, but a difference nonetheless.

Edited by Retrobyter
to add info
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On 3/31/2019 at 6:17 PM, DonkeySpeaksAgain said:
  On 3/28/2019 at 12:10 PM, Montana Marv said:

It cannot be:  For anoint the Most Holy is number six on the list, not number one on the list.  They are in their order for a reason.  To anoint the Most Holy follows to bring in everlasting righteousness.  The nation and city of Daniel must first rid them self of transgression, sin and wickedness, then they end vision and prophecy (all according to Zech 13).  Then they are ushered into a time of everlasting righteousness, which is followed by Anointing Jesus Christ as their Messiah so He can be King over them forever.

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

On 3/31/2019 at 6:35 PM, pinacled said:

Thank you for the clarity. 

I regain from speaking of certain things.

I would rather share The Noble thoughts and blessings freely received.

 

On 3/31/2019 at 1:48 AM, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, pinacled.

First, I don't WANT to have a "conversation in oil!" The last time someone said something like that to me was when I used to work for a City Electrician!

Thank You ALL for responding to this thread. 

NOW... Let me start by saying "I HAVE HAD AN EPIPHANY!" How could something so plainly written NOT be understood JUST AS IT IS WRITTEN? My apologies to everyone for not seeing this earlier and for accepting the false assumption which has led to all the debating and confusion.

What am I talking about?

The "assumption" that Daniel 9:27 is about the last 7 years of the '70 weeks prophecy'. Yes, it mentions "one week (seven)", BUT that one week does NOT have to be "years" as in the 70th week. Jesus does confirm/strengthen/make the "New Covenant" in that ONE WEEK (7 days of the 'Holy Week'). He enters Jerusalem on Sunday, cleanses the temple, last supper, cross, & resurrection ALL in ONE WEEK. 

Daniel 9:27 "And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."

Jesus confirms the covenant "with many", put an end to the need for sacrifices, and for continuing 'abominations' (unnecessary sacrifices) He destroys the temple which remains desolate UNTIL the 'completion' (2nd coming).

So simple!!!

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9 hours ago, DonkeySpeaksAgain said:

 

 

Thank You ALL for responding to this thread. 

NOW... Let me start by saying "I HAVE HAD AN EPIPHANY!" How could something so plainly written NOT be understood JUST AS IT IS WRITTEN? My apologies to everyone for not seeing this earlier and for accepting the false assumption which has led to all the debating and confusion.

What am I talking about?

The "assumption" that Daniel 9:27 is about the last 7 years of the '70 weeks prophecy'. Yes, it mentions "one week (seven)", BUT that one week does NOT have to be "years" as in the 70th week. Jesus does confirm/strengthen/make the "New Covenant" in that ONE WEEK (7 days of the 'Holy Week'). He enters Jerusalem on Sunday, cleanses the temple, last supper, cross, & resurrection ALL in ONE WEEK. 

Daniel 9:27 "And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."

Jesus confirms the covenant "with many", put an end to the need for sacrifices, and for continuing 'abominations' (unnecessary sacrifices) He destroys the temple which remains desolate UNTIL the 'completion' (2nd coming).

So simple!!!

Can't wait for your next two epiphanies on this subject matter.

In Christ

Montana Marv

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