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Daniel 9:27 covenant confirmed by Jesus


DonkeySpeaksAgain

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On 3/24/2019 at 5:41 PM, Retrobyter said:

You ARE contradicting yourself. You've neglected (as has DonkeySpeaksAgain) the fact that YESHUA` HIMSELF broke the final "week" in two! THAT'S why there is a "gap" at all!

Sorry Brother, but I have NEVER taken the position (on this forum nor anytime after 2012) that there is still 7 years remaining of the 70 weeks prophecy. I have been very consistent about proclaiming the "gap" as being in the midpoint of the 70th week - thus ONLY 3.5 years remaining - just like it says in Revelation and everywhere else in the Bible.

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On 4/9/2019 at 7:45 AM, Montana Marv said:

Can't wait for your next two epiphanies on this subject matter.

In Christ

Montana Marv

????  What do you mean by "two"?  

It is much clearer now that the entire prophecy can be understood as referring to Jesus and NOT the A/C! 

Dan. 9:27 refers to the ONE FINAL week (7 days) of Jesus' ministry. 

NO 7 year covenant with the Beast, AND NO 7 year tribulation!

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2 hours ago, DonkeySpeaksAgain said:

????  What do you mean by "two"?  

It is much clearer now that the entire prophecy can be understood as referring to Jesus and NOT the A/C! 

Dan. 9:27 refers to the ONE FINAL week (7 days) of Jesus' ministry. 

NO 7 year covenant with the Beast, AND NO 7 year tribulation!

It appears that this veiw is your second or third veiw. I'm waiting for more.

In Christ

Montana Marv

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10 hours ago, DonkeySpeaksAgain said:

Sorry Brother, but I have NEVER taken the position (on this forum nor anytime after 2012) that there is still 7 years remaining of the 70 weeks prophecy. I have been very consistent about proclaiming the "gap" as being in the midpoint of the 70th week - thus ONLY 3.5 years remaining - just like it says in Revelation and everywhere else in the Bible.

Shalom, DonkeySpeaksAgain.

Then, I'm sorry that I misunderstood you somehow. I apologize. I find no fault in what you have just said. Thank you for putting me straight.

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On 4/14/2019 at 3:17 PM, Montana Marv said:

It appears that this veiw is your second or third veiw. I'm waiting for more.

In Christ

Montana Marv

You said this is my second or third view? How do you figure? I have always maintained there is NO 7 year tribulation. Daniel 9:27 has always been intriguing to me and I have long understood it to be the KEY verse to understanding Revelation. Yes, I have posted/written under the FALSE understanding of accepting Dan 9:27 as referring to a 7 YEAR time frame, and now I see it as being "THE 7 DAY PERIOD" of which ALL prophecy hinges - the Holy Week of the cross.

SO you have never come to the understanding that you have believed something that turned out later to be not quite right? Now, there is NO Biblical evidence for the A/C making a peace treaty. NO Biblical evidence for a 7 year tribulation. The entire Pre-Millennial argument must be centered on this truth. The debate can/will continue about rapture positioning, but it must be around a 3.5 year tribulation, NOT 7. 

The conclusion was that Daniel 9:27 is actually referring to a one "week" period of 7 DAYS (NOT years). It does NOT change my outline, I still believe the 70th week is already HALF fulfilled and there are ONLY 3.5 years remaining for the Jews and the left-behind (not the obedient Church)- all of which are portrayed in Revelation. The "covenant" spoken of is now even more solidly in my mind to be referring to Jesus and NOT the A/C. The baptism occurs at the END of the 69th week (start of the 70th) and on a Jubilee Year and is all solidly corroborated by the Jewish Calendar, the NT, and history itself. 

Another poster has a quote at the bottom of each post that reads something like "an honest man will change his opinion when it is proven wrong". I don't believe I have witnessed a single person on this site (or any other) actually have his/her mind/opinion changed concerning something 'major' based on one posting. What about you? Sure, small minor issues which don't really affect anything else, but have you ever changed your view or position on something "major" after "debating" all these years? All I ever wanted was the truth, even if it means abandoning long-held assumptions. And there are MANY assumptions accepted and repeated by professors, pastors, teachers, and prophets without much reproof if any at all. I have said this before, and I will say it again now... I thank the owner(s) of this forum because it does NOT restrict or prevent people of different 'labels' from putting forth their arguments. By labels, I mean categories like pre, mid and post.

I too hope there are "more" epiphanies to come. If they continue, I'll know that Scripture is molding my interpretation instead of the other way around. 

 

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On 4/14/2019 at 11:00 PM, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, DonkeySpeaksAgain.

Then, I'm sorry that I misunderstood you somehow. I apologize. I find no fault in what you have just said. Thank you for putting me straight.

Quite alright, It may even have been one of your posts that gave me the "eureka" moment of realizing Dan. 9:27 concerns the holy week and NOT the 70th week? As I just said to Montana, I think all the evidence points to NO 7 year treaty, and NO 7 year tribulation, and that discussion among pre-mill people should be centered around a 3.5 year tribulation. I feel great harm would be done to those in that 3.5 year tribulation if all available literature talks about 7 years with the A/C appearing after 3.5 years. Imagine when Jesus returns at that point? WOW

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16 hours ago, DonkeySpeaksAgain said:

Quite alright, It may even have been one of your posts that gave me the "eureka" moment of realizing Dan. 9:27 concerns the holy week and NOT the 70th week? As I just said to Montana, I think all the evidence points to NO 7 year treaty, and NO 7 year tribulation, and that discussion among pre-mill people should be centered around a 3.5 year tribulation. I feel great harm would be done to those in that 3.5 year tribulation if all available literature talks about 7 years with the A/C appearing after 3.5 years. Imagine when Jesus returns at that point? WOW

Shalom, DonkeySpeaksAgain.

Scratching my head a little. Labels should be used sparingly for things that actually can benefit for having a label, but let's smooth a few things out.

First of all, the 70th Seven of years begins with the baptism of Yeshua` and his announcement of the gospel (the good news) about the Kingdom, confirming that gospel with the miracles from His Father that He performed. The 70th Seven of years was POSTPONED during the "holy week"; that is, the final week of His life before His death, burial, and resurrection. That was when the Jews of Jerusalem were left "desolate" and Yeshua` foretold the events of the Olivet Discourse, recorded in Matthew 24 and 25, Mark 13, and Luke 21.

It will pick up again where the Messiah left off when He returns and offers that Kingdom to Israel again, again confirming that gospel with miracles. That's the final three and a half years of the 70th Seven of years.

It is IN BETWEEN those two halves that the "great tribulation" has occurred and continues to occur.

These last 2,000 years are like the islands in an island chain where each island is like another instance of tribulation: the Roman persecutions, the Crusades, the Inquisitions, the Pogroms, the .

When the tide is low, the islands are more connected and there are larger and fewer islands. If one were to travel across the chain, they would spend more time on the ground (more time being in tribulation) than in the water (at peace). However, Yeshua` promised that "those days (of tribulation) shall be shortened." In other words, the tide will be kept high so that the frequency of the land masses will be less and smaller and farther between. That way, more time will be on the water (at peace) and less time on land (in tribulation).

The overall time doesn't change; it's the time of TRIBULATION WITHIN the overall time that is shortened!

So, when you said, "I think all the evidence points to NO 7 year treaty, and NO 7 year tribulation," I totally agree with you. However, I also disagree with a "3.5 year tribulation."

And, when you said, "I feel great harm would be done to those in that 3.5 year tribulation if all available literature talks about 7 years with the A/C appearing after 3.5 years. Imagine when Jesus returns at that point? WOW!" I wholeheartedly concur, however, I believe that Yeshua` ("Jesus") will return just BEFORE the 3.5 years, and that the 3.5 years will be a time when He again offers the Kingdom to Israel, and this time, they accept Him and it!

Anyway, that's my perspective.

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On 4/17/2019 at 8:15 PM, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, DonkeySpeaksAgain.

Scratching my head a little. Labels should be used sparingly for things that actually can benefit for having a label, but let's smooth a few things out.

First of all, the 70th Seven of years begins with the baptism of Yeshua` and his announcement of the gospel (the good news) about the Kingdom, confirming that gospel with the miracles from His Father that He performed. The 70th Seven of years was POSTPONED during the "holy week"; that is, the final week of His life before His death, burial, and resurrection. That was when the Jews of Jerusalem were left "desolate" and Yeshua` foretold the events of the Olivet Discourse, recorded in Matthew 24 and 25, Mark 13, and Luke 21.

It will pick up again where the Messiah left off when He returns and offers that Kingdom to Israel again, again confirming that gospel with miracles. That's the final three and a half years of the 70th Seven of years.

It is IN BETWEEN those two halves that the "great tribulation" has occurred and continues to occur.

These last 2,000 years are like the islands in an island chain where each island is like another instance of tribulation: the Roman persecutions, the Crusades, the Inquisitions, the Pogroms, the .

When the tide is low, the islands are more connected and there are larger and fewer islands. If one were to travel across the chain, they would spend more time on the ground (more time being in tribulation) than in the water (at peace). However, Yeshua` promised that "those days (of tribulation) shall be shortened." In other words, the tide will be kept high so that the frequency of the land masses will be less and smaller and farther between. That way, more time will be on the water (at peace) and less time on land (in tribulation).

The overall time doesn't change; it's the time of TRIBULATION WITHIN the overall time that is shortened!

So, when you said, "I think all the evidence points to NO 7 year treaty, and NO 7 year tribulation," I totally agree with you. However, I also disagree with a "3.5 year tribulation."

And, when you said, "I feel great harm would be done to those in that 3.5 year tribulation if all available literature talks about 7 years with the A/C appearing after 3.5 years. Imagine when Jesus returns at that point? WOW!" I wholeheartedly concur, however, I believe that Yeshua` ("Jesus") will return just BEFORE the 3.5 years, and that the 3.5 years will be a time when He again offers the Kingdom to Israel, and this time, they accept Him and it!

Anyway, that's my perspective.

Yes, "labels" create a great deal of confusion. I too agree that when the Bible says "great tribulation" it is referring to the "Church Age". 

The subject of this discussion is still Dan. 9:27. The 70th week began at the baptism, but I don't think just because the 70th week was cut in half that there will still be ANOTHER 70th week (or full 7 years) before the "end". Revelation CANNOT be logically broken down and tied together without encountering contradictions with the timeline. Every time a "timeframe" is given it is ALWAYS ONLY 3.5 years. The 3.5 years remaining of the 70th week (which was cut short with the Dan. 9:27 Holy Week) makes the most sense when seen as applying to the Jews (the rest of the 70th week). The "break" or gap (Church Age) began with the "interruption" of the Holy Week. It is marked by the resurrection of Jesus and it is intriguing to me to attach the "resurrection of the Church" (Rapture) to the END of it - which will ALSO mark the BEGINNING of the continuation of the 70th week (final 3.5 years). With the Church gone (most of it - we hope) the focus of Revelation then goes BACK to the Jews. Their "blindness" will NOT be removed until the END of the 70th week. I don't see another 3.5 years AFTER the 2nd coming. I do see, however, an additional 45 days to allow for the bowl judgments.

Anyway, I remember considering the possibility of placing Jesus' return at the start of the "final tribulation" (I prefer this label instead of "great tribulation") but was not able to maintain the integrity of the timeline. Some contradictions prevented me from accepting or staying with that line of thinking. Initially, the 144K are said to "follow him wherever he goes" and that began the thought for me. Can't remember right now all the problems that caused me to back away, but would listen to your thoughts if you wish to write them down.

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