Churchs are not growing.

[Willa]

No.  Ours is a very conservative Calvary Chapel in south Eastern WA.  Our satalite churches were much smaller and in small towns, designed to help get churches established till they could afford their own pastors and become independent.  Our Spirit led sermons are studies from books of the Bible which we do in depth verse by verse. They keep me riveted on the edge of my chair, often taking notes.  We have had quality bands comprised of unpaid music teachers and professional musicians who contributed their talents.  In some services we only have an acoustic guitar/vocalist.  Emphasis is on worshipful meaningful lyrics and hymns.  We do have to take down some chairs because half the gym is used by our school and we use an outdoor amphitheater during the warmer months of the year.                                                                                                                                        . It is not unusual to have members leading newcomers to the Lord, going through the salvation scriptures and praying during services as the Lord convicts them and opens their eyes.  Some services have an alter call but not all.  Visitors just say "i want what that guy is talking about."   Pastor says "we just have Sunday morning service and Jesus shows up".

We do have two large Conservative Baptist churches that have become community churches more like Rick Warren's which is why I left after 14 years. They had in time abandoned alter calls and became less Christ centered and more people centered.  One of their small groups was for butterfly collecting.  One is an accountability group for drugs and alcohol.

[Hands On]

Our church is in a small town and there is mostly pensioners around and very few young people due to lack of employment opportunities.There is only an average of about 30 folks on Sundays out of say 80 folks on the books.Yet I believe the Lord will bless us and keep us going if we do our best with what we have .I find confidence in small church of "Philadelphia"(Rev 3:8-10).Our Bible Study Group and Adult Teaching Program is also growing and this is keeping the church vibrant regardless of the  small   congregation.I believe the Lord will provide as He deems fit.

[Omegaman 3.0]

Perhaps a bit off topic from the OP, but some thoughts.

It is hard for a small church to grow. Typically, a small church, has limited ability to minister to large gatherings, no ROOM to grow, and limited size usually correlates to limited financial support. If it has a lot to offer. and the people are out there letting others know about it, it will grow more. More to the point, if it is God's will that it grow, it WILL grow. Often, it is man's will that wants growth.

I think God is very concerned about church growth (the universal, world wild church), but perhaps not always as interested in the growth of any specific congregational growth.

I have attended 5 churches in the last 40 years, they have all grown, and exceeded their physical capacities. Some churches do nothing to expand, being satisfied to stay the same. The churches i attended, some fell into that category, others, added more services, as many as 7 a week, in order to get beyond limited resources. 

The largest church I attended, grew to about 3000 members, and had to expand the facilities several times as well as the number of services, to accommodate that. However, they did something there, that was something I like very much. This technique, I mention because it can explain a reason why some churches do not grow - they grew by expanding outward. That church, invested in training pastors from within their congregation, and then helped them to start up additional congregations, world wide eventually. From this one congregation, there came daughter church, and grandaughter churches, etc. until today, there are over 3000 of these churches. If you looked at the first church, you would see that it is no longer growing, but what you do not see, is that it has not stopped growing in terms of the growth of God's church, all beleivers. The stats of an individual congregation, can be misleading.

Anyway, from this anecdotal evidence, I am not all that certain, how big a problem of church growth really exists. Small churches might be a bit like small businesses, nost of them appear to fail. When a small business fails, that does not mean that there are no customers, it only means the customers are elsewhere, moved on to something more suitable for them.

[warrior12]

 Technology has played a big part in recent years as to church attendance.  Now people can sit in their homes and visit as many churches as they want and listen to hundred and thousands of sermon, right from their bedrooms, pause and play as  they like and  it is enough for many.   

Also, we have to consider science and the breakthroughs that have been taking place at breathtaking speed.   The universities, colleges and even the high schools are being taught in a manner that places emphasis on the tangible world of facts, with the main theme of man existence and evolution as to the big bang situation.  So now, this is the competition or for a lack of a better word "dilemma" in getting the younger generation into the church door. As soon as they are of the age of non parental control, then the world is waiting with open arms to place them.

No mistake about it.  The devil has his schemes and plots to woe every soul in his camp and the plot thickens.   Why, artificial intelligence is now taking off and the promises of the future for one who is not about seeking after soul issues are being showered in with star wars kind of situation.   Don't know where you spend you time in research and world trends, but the world is rapidly changing and the church is being pushed as being old fashioned.

Is it  not how the bible say things would occur, for we are not to find it strange.    I have seen also many young people don't want to go to churches that they see no future husband or wife and they then go to social type meetings that seem to represent a church type setting.     

The church is still  working and functioning and only the Lord know how the coming years would see it either grow or diminish as to his timing.   There are many things that are taking place in the supernatural world that is just mind boggling .  Wait, 5g technology is just around the corner, and you think the smart phone was a wow, then 5g would blow the roof off.   Look up for your redemption draweth nigh.

As I was recently reading in John, " 

 

⁴⁴ No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

[Michael37]

God knows who His elect are. The head count of pew sitters is irrelevant. 

[dr3032]

On 3/26/2019 at 4:48 AM, thomas t said:

The main problem I see is that half of the Christians don't want chuches to grow.

Look at this post (and please count the numer of times it has been voted up).

In my view, it has been about keeping the doors of churches shut.

Wayne, let's work to keep all the insults against non-believers out of here. Which non-believer is going to convert when you compare them to "pooping deer" (see again above how many times this had been voted up). Even people who dare to post in this very thread you opened up, they also voted that post up containing the "pooping deer" comparison. So let's work on respecting other people more, please.

I was an atheist once before, and I operated in a very condescending way to any and all religious folk. I would seek out religious people online and, for my own amusement, mock and argue with them. I did not mean to imply that all unbelievers were as I was, or to put it another way, that each and every wild deer WOULD poop on your carpet. Merely that, if you invite a deer into your company, you cannot be surprised when that is what happens.

I would never discourage an unbeliever who is curious, or even just one who wasn't a massive troublemaker. I would only discourage the ones like I was. As they say, nobody is harder on alcoholics than a recovered alcoholic. I would certainly hope that unbelievers change their minds; I think many of them are decent folks and it's tough seeing what they do to themselves. As is typical of me, it seems my previous post was poorly worded.

As for this topic itself, I don't know about this 99% visibilty. In a way, both you and George make decent points. All I know is that i'd rather this forum, which I have come to enjoy, not fall like so many other Christian forum sites. We bicker amongst ourselves enough without letting troublesome rabblerousers off the leash. In an ideal world, people could discuss things in a calm and rational manner, but when have we ever lived in an ideal world?

[Wayne222]

On 3/25/2019 at 8:04 AM, Still Alive said:

When I moved from Seattle (home for 46 years) to south central rural Kentucky, it was definitely a church culture shock. To make it more "shocking", I joined a Southern Gospel band that toured a LOT of these under 100 member churches. I was in it for two years and ate a lot of potluck.

But I noticed a common theme. The preachers were doing it, basically, for free, and there were a lot of sermons preached that obviously had no preparation. Further, there was a lot of "hell and damnation" preaching - something oddly missing from the book of Acts, from which we should be getting our marching orders. 

And there were often a group of 5 or so men sitting close to the front that did a lot of "amen" and "preach it brother" callouts. One time the preacher even made reference to Satan winning and they said, "amen". I kid you not.

The people in these churches seemed to be a seriously emotionally beaten down lot that were more focused on working their way to heaven and the prevailing tempearature of hell than the actual GOOD NEWS (gospel). And some of those preachers were hopelessly ignorant, and yet preached every misguided message in a spirit of "only the lost disagree with me". 

Frankly, I thought a lot of those churches needed to shut down. I had to leave the band because I could no longer be silent about the teaching I was hearing - and I had a hot mic in front of me and finally used it. It was a simple thing, really, but I told the band leader that that was only the beginning and that I could be silent no more. We both thought it was probably best that I leave the band.

Well said brother. A lot of churchs don't preach good news. They preach you better get to work if you don't want to go to hell. Are you attending a church ?

[Wayne222]

On 3/26/2019 at 4:06 PM, Omegaman 3.0 said:

Perhaps a bit off topic from the OP, but some thoughts.

It is hard for a small church to grow. Typically, a small church, has limited ability to minister to large gatherings, no ROOM to grow, and limited size usually correlates to limited financial support. If it has a lot to offer. and the people are out there letting others know about it, it will grow more. More to the point, if it is God's will that it grow, it WILL grow. Often, it is man's will that wants growth.

I think God is very concerned about church growth (the universal, world wild church), but perhaps not always as interested in the growth of any specific congregational growth.

I have attended 5 churches in the last 40 years, they have all grown, and exceeded their physical capacities. Some churches do nothing to expand, being satisfied to stay the same. The churches i attended, some fell into that category, others, added more services, as many as 7 a week, in order to get beyond limited resources. 

The largest church I attended, grew to about 3000 members, and had to expand the facilities several times as well as the number of services, to accommodate that. However, they did something there, that was something I like very much. This technique, I mention because it can explain a reason why some churches do not grow - they grew by expanding outward. That church, invested in training pastors from within their congregation, and then helped them to start up additional congregations, world wide eventually. From this one congregation, there came daughter church, and grandaughter churches, etc. until today, there are over 3000 of these churches. If you looked at the first church, you would see that it is no longer growing, but what you do not see, is that it has not stopped growing in terms of the growth of God's church, all beleivers. The stats of an individual congregation, can be misleading.

Anyway, from this anecdotal evidence, I am not all that certain, how big a problem of church growth really exists. Small churches might be a bit like small businesses, nost of them appear to fail. When a small business fails, that does not mean that there are no customers, it only means the customers are elsewhere, moved on to something more suitable for them.

Sounds like Calvery Chapel. 

[Wayne222]

On 3/25/2019 at 1:02 PM, Neighbor said:

To paraphrase: Ask not what your local body of Christ Jesus can do for you. Ask what you are to be doing now as a willing bondservant of Christ Jesus within His local body the church near you.

 

 

It works both ways. In Acts if anyone had a need the church helped them. 

[Neighbor]

1 hour ago, Wayne222 said:

It works both ways. In Acts if anyone had a need the church helped them. 

Of course!

The issue there is often getting individuals to acknowledge their  need. Seems many  if not nearly all will not acknowledge, or perhaps they just don't realize they have a need whether it is physical to them personally, or their family or  of their property or of spirit.

What I am referring to  as an ask not  is ask not to be entertained. Ask not that the drummer not drum. Ask not that no one raise their arms during worship. Ask not that there be an organ. Ask not that  In The Garden be played each week or else you will leave.

Instead, ask how may I join with those on the widows work detail?  How may I join to help mow lawns of the injured and shutin? Ask how may I qualify to help care for the babies during services? Ask how might I qualify to drive the shuttle bus? Ask what is needed of me  in order to serve the local body of Christ here in my own neighborhood?  Ask what neighborhood outreach I might join and support? Ask how I can be part of church planting? - where locals are trained up to be elders and pastor of their own local churches in town, across towns and counties,,  around the state, and other States, and  in foreign lands. Ask how I can aid any of those missions to the glory  of God alone? And then quietly go about doing what is led by God the Holy Spirit once awareness of a need becomes known, not letting the right hand know what the left is doing - just do.

Acts is alive and well within many a saint in Christ Jesus, many help without the formal listing of needs ever being made known. Prayer avails much for God answers prayer. Pray for a need to be met, see it met, be the person who meets the need. Just don't be the person that questions motive and methods of those that are going about doing the labor and sharing of the resource needed. For that enables a dark spirit to flourish. Instead may all the saints in Christ Jesus praise God for both the need and the meeting of the need and ask what may I join in to do next Lord?