vlad Posted March 27, 2019 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 470 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 171 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/02/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/07/1946 Author Share Posted March 27, 2019 (edited) You say: "The conjunctive makes both necessary........." Please continue arguing with James 2, 14. and what is following. Edited March 27, 2019 by vlad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vlad Posted March 27, 2019 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 470 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 171 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/02/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/07/1946 Author Share Posted March 27, 2019 54 minutes ago, Who me said: Actually vlad you do. In the now closed thread on eternal punishment. I wrote that no ware does the bible teach that good works save. You replied quote matthew on the sheep and goats as evidence that good works save. I sussspect this was as I replied here merely an over stressing of the importance of works, but it shows the problem in over stressing works. No, they are together. Continue to argue with James 2, 14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vlad Posted March 27, 2019 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 470 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 171 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/02/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/07/1946 Author Share Posted March 27, 2019 3 minutes ago, vlad said: No, they are together. Continue to argue with James 2, 14 You accuse me of over stressing the words of Jesus. Can you over stress the words of Jesus Himself? Those were the very words of Jesus in Matthew. Can one over stress the words by Jesus? Is that at all possible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted March 27, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.24 Reputation: 9,760 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted March 27, 2019 Notice in the scripture below we are saved by grace through faith, not by faith alone. You will also notice that after salvation, we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good work, a result of salvation. Let's read Ephesians 2:8-10. For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. Saying that, we also read in James 2 where he explains it very well, that faith without works is dead, as if not having the faith spoken of in Ephesians 2:8-10 where the result would be the believer becoming His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works. If we have faith, we will have works. They go hand in hand because God never fails. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angels4u Posted March 27, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 56 Topic Count: 1,664 Topics Per Day: 0.20 Content Count: 19,763 Content Per Day: 2.39 Reputation: 12,161 Days Won: 28 Joined: 08/22/2001 Status: Offline Share Posted March 27, 2019 1 hour ago, Who me said: Actually vlad you do. In the now closed thread on eternal punishment. I wrote that no ware does the bible teach that good works save. You replied quote matthew on the sheep and goats as evidence that good works save. I sussspect this was as I replied here merely an over stressing of the importance of works, but it shows the problem in over stressing works. Who Me ,Don't you believe that faith and works go together? If you have no faith,you're not born again,if you have no works then I doubt if you're born again but if you have faith and good works then you have the faith which passes all understanding and we can see your heavenly Father living inside of you and give Him praise ! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neighbor Posted March 27, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 948 Topics Per Day: 0.35 Content Count: 13,507 Content Per Day: 5.02 Reputation: 9,019 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/04/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/03/1885 Share Posted March 27, 2019 2 hours ago, vlad said: Making it a show is the invention of the 20th century May I suggest that 1 Timothy 6 conveys the idea that it was an problem within members of the faith that Timothy had to address. Not that prosperity thinking is correct for it is not (IMO) a proper reasoning of the guidance of God for us. I do however see that it has always been a problem for mankind. Even of those that demanded of Jesus a sign, a wonder a performance of some majesty and presumably a pleasing gain. Jesus instead told them they already had their sign and he will but duplicate the sign of Jonah. I agree that word of faith movement is a terribly disruptive idea to hang onto as one goes down the tubes financially nd spiritually as result of clining to this false notion hat is often SOLG by peddlers of mercantile faith which boasts of a give to get mentality, instead of a give in all that is done for the Glory to God. I just don't see it as a "new thing", but instead more of the same old razzle dazzle of the accuser and his minions performing their ministry of distraction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neighbor Posted March 27, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 948 Topics Per Day: 0.35 Content Count: 13,507 Content Per Day: 5.02 Reputation: 9,019 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/04/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/03/1885 Share Posted March 27, 2019 3 hours ago, Who me said: The blunt and brutal truth is that it is "faith alone" that saves and that we show our faith by our good works. And it is the faith of Jesus upon which my salvation rides. For I was turned about to my own repentance from sin against God by God alone and not by any of my own desire nor my doing. Upon some serious demanding enlightenment by God I did what was really impossible for me not to do, not this side of my sanity anyway. ..."Where is the one who is wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe. For Jews demand signs and Greeks seek wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles, but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. For the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men. For consider your calling, brothers: not many of you were wise according to worldly standards, not many were powerful, not many were of noble birth. But God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise; God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong; God chose what is low and despised in the world, even things that are not, to bring to nothing things that are, so that no human being might boast in the presence of God. And because of him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption, so that, as it is written,'Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord.' " ..."And because of him".... Amen. Praise the LORD for his mercy and His grace upon me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xethea Posted March 27, 2019 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 262 Content Per Day: 0.12 Reputation: 57 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/25/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted March 27, 2019 3 hours ago, vlad said: Be it known to you that if the world loves you - God doesn't. Whoa, buddy! Hold your horses. Did you "literally" just claim God "doesn't" love someone, for in fact, just because the world loves them or for any other reason? As if, you find God has set His love conditionally? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xethea Posted March 27, 2019 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 262 Content Per Day: 0.12 Reputation: 57 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/25/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted March 27, 2019 1 hour ago, OneLight said: Notice in the scripture below we are saved by grace through faith, not by faith alone. You will also notice that after salvation, we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good work, a result of salvation. Let's read Ephesians 2:8-10. For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. Saying that, we also read in James 2 where he explains it very well, that faith without works is dead, as if not having the faith spoken of in Ephesians 2:8-10 where the result would be the believer becoming His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works. If we have faith, we will have works. They go hand in hand because God never fails. This verse you are quoting is one that makes my point the Lord chooses us. "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves;" For by God's grace, we are saved by faith, yes. But this scripture clearly tells us, this faith that we have to believe in the Lord, "IS NOT OF OURSELVES." It is faith given to us as a gift to be saved and it is God's grace that is freely offered to us, not something we choose to have or earn. By this grace given to us, then comes faith given to us, then comes salvation which then we are renewed and given the Holy Spirit, which then being renewed and having the Holy Spirit will be the source that produces good works in our lives. See, it all comes together by the Lord Himself. We didn't do anything, we didn't even make the choice on our own, but it was the Lord who chose us and convinced us to believe and be saved. Therefore, we cannot boast and He can and He can have the glory. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted March 27, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.24 Reputation: 9,760 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted March 27, 2019 8 minutes ago, Xethea said: This verse you are quoting is one that makes my point the Lord chooses us. "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves;" For by God's grace, we are saved by faith, yes. But this scripture clearly tells us, this faith that we have to believe in the Lord, "IS NOT OF OURSELVES." It is faith given to us as a gift to be saved and it is God's grace that is freely offered to us, not something we choose to have or earn. By this grace given to us, then comes faith given to us, then comes salvation which then we are renewed and given the Holy Spirit, which then being renewed and having the Holy Spirit will be the source that produces good works in our lives. See, it all comes together by the Lord Himself. We didn't do anything, we didn't even make the choice on our own, but it was the Lord who chose us and convinced us to believe and be saved. Therefore, we cannot boast and He can and He can have the glory. Ephesians 2:8-10 only proves that without His grace, we would never be saved. If you honestly looked at everything I posted, you would also admit that I never said I saved myself, that is what you were trying to imply I said, which is false. What is not of ourselves is the ability to become sinless where we can forgive our sins ourselves. That is why Jesus died. But I have showed you this before and you refused to honestly consider what I said. So that this thread also does not get hijacked into a subject of predestination vs. free will, this is the last I will reply on this subject here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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