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Thus said the LORD: 1 Observe what is right and do what is just; For soon My salvation shall come, And my deliverance be revealed.

 

philipians 2

Therefore if you have any encouragement from being united with Christ, if any comfort from his love, if any common sharing in the Spirit,if any tenderness and compassion, then make my joy complete by being like-minded, having the same love, being one in spirit and of one mind. Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. Rather, in humility value others above yourselves, not looking to your own interests but each of you to the interests of the others.

In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus:

Who, being in very nature[a] God,
    did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
rather, he made himself nothing
    by taking the very nature
[b] of a servant,
    being made in human likeness.
And being found in appearance as a man,
    he humbled himself
    by becoming obedient to death—
        even death on a cross!

Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
    and gave him the name that is above every name,
10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
    in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
    to the glory of God the Father.

Do Everything Without Grumbling

12 Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, 13 for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose.

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16 hours ago, vlad said:

If you do not agree to faith and good deeds as equal then would you agree that they are inseparable? Take faith as HEART and good works as BLOOD. One does not exist without the other.

I believe that every Christian who is serious about serving /following Jesus does 'good deeds'.

Whether they are in seperable , put it this way. I know of a Christian who through illness has spent the last twenty years immobile in bed, unable to get up, stand loud noises, strong smells etc.

They cannot do 'good deeds' so are they a good Christian?

This Christian has prayed faithfully for years for other Christians. I would say that it depends how 'good deeds' are defined.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Who me said:

I believe that every Christian who is serious about serving /following Jesus does 'good deeds'.

Whether they are in seperable , put it this way. I know of a Christian who through illness has spent the last twenty years immobile in bed, unable to get up, stand loud noises, strong smells etc.

They cannot do 'good deeds' so are they a good Christian?

This Christian has prayed faithfully for years for other Christians. I would say that it depends how 'good deeds' are defined.

God never asks what is impossible. Good works are expected according to the talent, abilities and so on (what is given). That sick person is alright. We are talking about the majority of the people. Now look at this:

Which Is a Greater Risk of not being Saved?  We have two interpretations at the moment.

Interpretation 1: Faith alone or Faith + 0;

Interpretation 2: Faith + Good Works.

Let us assume that Faith in both interpretations is the same as we have no reliable method to measure individual Faith.

Now let us apply a matrix " My Interpretation is Not Correct. But I Have My Followers and I had insisted that they stick to it (The Opposite Interpretation  Is Correct)” to each interpretation in turn. Let us begin with Interpretation 2

In this case ( Interpretation 2) Faith remains and there is still a possibility and a chance to be pardoned and saved.

With Interpretation 1 it is not that simple. The unit “Good works” is missing. There would have been a chance to be pardoned and saved but the  proponent had insisted on his Followers to accept Faith+0. And many of them encouraged by the proponent performed Zero or next to zero Good works (could have done much much more). This is hardly pardonable. And  for the proponent the chance of being saved  in this case is next to Zero or Zero.

Edited by vlad

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First we have justification - saved by grace through faith, justified by the work on the cross completed by Jesus

Then comes sanctification - as we are changed into His image, good works is a result of such change

Ending in Glorification - what happens to us after death as we are caught up to be with the Lord

If you would like scripture, I can provide it, but I believe you know what I am saying.

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Posted (edited)
On 3/29/2019 at 3:08 AM, Who me said:

I believe that every Christian who is serious about serving /following Jesus does 'good deeds'.

Whether they are in seperable , put it this way. I know of a Christian who through illness has spent the last twenty years immobile in bed, unable to get up, stand loud noises, strong smells etc.

They cannot do 'good deeds' so are they a good Christian?

This Christian has prayed faithfully for years for other Christians. I would say that it depends how 'good deeds' are defined.

 

Where Christians become confused regarding OSAS and WORKS, regarding what they think is a conflict..... is really just the simple result of not being taught correct Pauline Theology/Doctrine.

The fact is, everything we as the born again know about (who, how, why), regarding Salvation, came from one Apostle....and this isn't James or Matthew..... Its Paul.

And the other issue that many believers have, is that they are  convinced that doing stuff for God (works), is some sort of supplement to the Blood of Christ.

This is Because they have been taught to think of salvation as The Cross + Works = Heaven, so,  they run around trying to save themselves, instead of relying totally on the One who ALREADY SAVED THEM.

They absolutely cannot understand that Salvation, when it is applied to you, is a one time eternal situation, and it is never repeated,.. and.... it can't be kept by you, and you can't lose it....and this is because you have nothing do to with it.

And where THIS confusion generally has its roots is when a believer believes that "faith" saves you.

So, that is one more error in theology that is believed by many who have become legalists and run around thinking that works has anything and everything to do with your salvation (The Redemption).

Let me for the sake of those who don't understand that FAITH does not save you,.......explain it.......... "Faith, allows GOD to SAVE YOU.....Its is GOD who saved you, because you did what He accepted, to do it for you, for FREE.

You gave Him, at some point, your faith, and at that MONENT HE gave YOU< His Righteousness, that was offered on the Cross, as the BLOOD ATONEMENT.

So, God SAVED, through faith, ONCE, when he accepted it, and that was the moment you were born again........and nothing can change this......ever.

 

"well what about works'.   .Well, before i show you,.. those who are working to save yourself, let me ask you this....  What works are you doing now, that you could have also done before you were saved?

A.) ALL OF THEM.

 

Every work, good deed, whatever, that you are doing, is the same that you could have done, BEFORE YOU WERE SAVED......SO, did they save you?...........NO !.

So, what can't save you, (works), can't cause you not to be saved, once you are saved.

Understand?

Think on that.

 

Lastly........ Where many believers have not understood their salvation is when they also dont understand the distinction between Salvation and Discipleship.  And what many do, in error, is try to combine them FOR Salvation, but, they are not the same.

SALVATiON is God, thru the Blood of Christ, accepting you, because you gave Him the requirement.....Your faith, and NOT YOUR WORKS.  "not by works of righteousness".......remember that verse?

So, AFTER you are saved............you attempt to live a certain type of lifestyle....= your Discipleship, but, this does not save you........none of these works....as you are ALREADY SAVED and that is why you should be doing them.

Edited by Behold
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While churches must "grow" but I believe it better to have members saved by the "truth in Christ"(Jn 14:7) as would interpret as "quality Christians" who both "hears and puts into practice"(N.I.V.Mt 7:24), what Christ commands.Sure its great to preach to an "audience in a packed house" i.e.quantity,but if most of the folks are not really being taught the truth of Christ but merely there for the awesome experience,then they might just as well go and have an awesome experience watching The Rolling Stones for example.(Although I still like The Stones and Beatles and all).We should not be blinded by the modern trend that all teaching must go with entertainment.(see, "What is The Church Growth Movement?gotquestions.org ).Of course there are financial realities that a church must endure,but not at the cost of selling out the truth in Christ and Christianity and how  Christians are to conduct themselves as Disciples in all walks of their daily lives.

See also Revelation Chapter 3 how Christ sees Churches,which is the most important of all factors,even if these "truth" are bitter pills to swallow at this stage

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On 29 March 2019 at 10:21 AM, vlad said:

God never asks what is impossible. Good works are expected according to the talent, abilities and so on (what is given). That sick person is alright. We are talking about the majority of the people. Now look at this:

Which Is a Greater Risk of not being Saved?  We have two interpretations at the moment.

Interpretation 1: Faith alone or Faith + 0;

Interpretation 2: Faith + Good Works.

Let us assume that Faith in both interpretations is the same as we have no reliable method to measure individual Faith.

Now let us apply a matrix " My Interpretation is Not Correct. But I Have My Followers and I had insisted that they stick to it (The Opposite Interpretation  Is Correct)” to each interpretation in turn. Let us begin with Interpretation 2

In this case ( Interpretation 2) Faith remains and there is still a possibility and a chance to be pardoned and saved.

With Interpretation 1 it is not that simple. The unit “Good works” is missing. There would have been a chance to be pardoned and saved but the  proponent had insisted on his Followers to accept Faith+0. And many of them encouraged by the proponent performed Zero or next to zero Good works (could have done much much more). This is hardly pardonable. And  for the proponent the chance of being saved  in this case is next to Zero or Zero.

I am sorry that you want to be able to brag to God about how you deserve to be in heaven and about how honoured God must be to have you in his family.

I am miss understanding you? No just appling biblical principals. We are saved by Gods grace and mercy. Our good deeds are **** stained rags in Gods sight. ( sorry for the crudity )

As Saved souls we show that we love God by being obedient to his commands and that means loving the unlovely, but we know that all we are doing is serving God.

We contribute nothing to our salvation, we add nothing to our status before God.

We should view our good deeds in the same way as little children helping dad wash the car, getting very wet and spreading water every were with very little going on the car.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Who me said:

I am sorry that you want to be able to brag to God about how you deserve to be in heaven and about how honoured God must be to have you in his family.

I am miss understanding you? No just appling biblical principals. We are saved by Gods grace and mercy. Our good deeds are **** stained rags in Gods sight. ( sorry for the crudity )

As Saved souls we show that we love God by being obedient to his commands and that means loving the unlovely, but we know that all we are doing is serving God.

We contribute nothing to our salvation, we add nothing to our status before God.

We should view our good deeds in the same way as little children helping dad wash the car, getting very wet and spreading water every were with very little going on the car.

You say: "I am sorry that you want to be able to brag to God about how you deserve to be in heaven and about how honoured God must be to have you in his family." That is too much. This Is a False Accusation. I have never been sure about myself. I was not writing about myself at all. What I wrote was just an idea generally. A good advice to you. Never accuse a person like when you mentioned me (you .....). People should not be offended personally Discuss possible sins and advise on how to get rid of them. Did I accuse anyone personally? I try to be careful about that. Do you?

Edited by vlad

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23 hours ago, vlad said:

You say: "I am sorry that you want to be able to brag to God about how you deserve to be in heaven and about how honoured God must be to have you in his family." That is too much. This Is a False Accusation. I have never been sure about myself. I was not writing about myself at all. What I wrote was just an idea generally. A good advice to you. Never accuse a person like when you mentioned me (you .....). People should not be offended personally Discuss possible sins and advise on how to get rid of them. Did I accuse anyone personally? I try to be careful about that. Do you?

 

Sorry I posted far to strong a reaction/reply.

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    • By nadams81811
      The Lord Will Guide Our Good Deeds To Do Good
      Background: I found myself wanting to help someone. Someone needed something and said they had no way of getting it. Before I knew it, I caught myself thinking “They should be able to get this for themselves, I know they have gotten things recently that they did not need and if they had not gotten these things they could get what they needed now.” But I thought to myself that it is not my place to judge their hardships, and I had faith in the Lord that he would guide my actions to do the most good possible. I also knew that he could reach out and touch their hearts and help them even more than I ever could. All too often, these worldly things can drive a wedge between our human relationships, but the Lord wants us to know that these worldly possessions mean nothing. NOTHING. If I gave away all I had in the faith of God that it was helping someone else, I should believe that he will take care of me. But I know that it is all too easy to let the things of this world, like money, stop us from doing what we know to be good, even if we have a tugging feeling in our hearts to do a good deed. Anyway, all these things were going through my mind and I wrote this down in my notebook.

      If you ever have a compelling feeling to do good, act upon it. Regardless how you may feel the validity of the receiver of your deed to be. If someone asks something of you, or you see someone who you feel could use some help, help them. Even if you may have doubts as to the reason that they ask your help. The Lord will deal with those who take advantage of the kindness of your Christian heart. Do not think of the world as such a corrupt place that anyone who is asking for money or help from you is lying about their circumstances. The Lord says to be kind to one another just as he is to us. We are not to judge the validity of someone’s claims. In the book of Exodus, the Pharaoh gave his word to Moses and Aaron many times that he would let the Hebrews go out of Egypt and did not let them go. But Moses and Aaron still prayed to God to stop the plagues on the Egyptians. Moses had faith in God that he would handle the Pharaoh. Just as we should have faith that the Lord will guide our kind actions to do the most good possible. The Lord will also reward us for our kind deeds, and this is not what Satan wants. He wants us to doubt our Lord and our hearts. He does not want us to spread the love and kindness of Jesus Christ and will do whatever he can to stop us. For this reason, we must have blind faith that our good deeds are truly needed. The Lord WILL make sure of this. All we have to do is believe and be kind; God will take care of the rest.
          
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