Christianity vs Other Religions

[theInquirer]

On 4/22/2019 at 12:13 PM, Abdicate said:

 

You went to college, didn't you? I can tell by your rambling confusion. It's not a diss, and I mean that, but an observation based on:

Universities reduce everything to a formula. Therefore, all religions demand you to act and do something to be found worthy. Christianity demands nothing for you to do anything to be worthy. Still, the "1, 2, 3, pray after me" false doctrine is killing the truth of Christianity and causing everyone to question it like you. It's because very few actually believe the word of God.

 

Hey sorry I didn't respond sooner.

But actually, no I have not gone to college; I am still in high school.  To be honest, I am just a guy who questions absolutely everything in life, theology, philosophy, and reality.  I just have this burning need to have everything I believe proven to me.  When I step back and look at the world, I have to ask myself what makes me right and the atheist wrong, and I conclude that it is absolutely nothing except for the logic behind each position.  It haunts me to think that two people can look at the same data and yet draw such different conclusions, yet with (at least on the face of it) many arguments and reasons for believing their side.  It scares me to think: What if I am wrong?  And so I question and test and reassess constantly whether or not my beliefs are correct.  I burn and torture the true nature of reality out of the confusing, twisting spiral of existence that we call our universe, and yet I still find myself realizing just how little I know and in how many places my beliefs need to be tested and undergo the rigorous, meticulous examination of logic.  Don't get me wrong: I have decided that until I get absolute, positive proof that Christianity is false, I will not stop believing it even if I cannot prove it to be true.  But that does not mean that I am not going to continue to reason the everlasting daylights out of everything I see.

And actually, everything can be reduced to a formula, i.e. logic, and this is not possible to prove false since the only way to prove something false is to use logic in the first place.  I guess what I was asking about was positive proof that my above worries are false.  

Actually, my tentative conclusion is that to an extent it is impossible to know whether our very existence is or is not some cosmic joke by an evil power, but that we do not assume this position because it reduces everything to absurdity.  It's sort of like proving one's own existence: the only way to do so is to start with the assumption of existence, but on the other hand, the only way someone can disprove existence is if they themselves to do not exist, which is impossible.  So we cannot know whether we exist or not, but we simply accept it on faith because it is not unreasonable as such, and because, all things being equal, we would rather believe this than the alternative.  

Analogically, this is the same argument I am using here: essentially, if any religion is true, Christianity is.  And that's how I'm getting around my problematic questions; to an extent, we can only realistically question so much, because there comes a point where we really have no way of knowing whether we are right or wrong, and so we must choose the path that does not lead to absurdity.  This is the path that (I believe) I have chosen.  

And please, correct me if I got any of the above points false. :) 

[Michael37]

1 hour ago, theInquirer said:

Analogically, this is the same argument I am using here: essentially, if any religion is true, Christianity is.  And that's how I'm getting around my problematic questions; to an extent, we can only realistically question so much, because there comes a point where we really have no way of knowing whether we are right or wrong, and so we must choose the path that does not lead to absurdity.  This is the path that (I believe) I have chosen.  

And please, correct me if I got any of the above points false.

Your questions remind me of this exchange between a scribe and the Lord, Inquirer

Mar 12:28-34

(28) Then one of the scribes came, after he heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that He had answered them well, asked Him, "Which is the first commandment of all?"

(29) Jesus answered him, "The first of all the commandments is: 'Hear, O Israel, the LORD our God is one LORD.

(30) ' And you shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.' This is the first commandment.

(31) And the second, like it, is this: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no other commandment greater than these."

(32) So the scribe said to Him, "Well said, Teacher, in truth You said that He is one, and there is no other besides Him.

(33) And to love Him with the whole heart, and with the whole understanding, with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love one's neighbor as oneself, is more than all the whole burnt offerings and sacrifices."

(34) Now when Jesus saw that he answered intelligently, He said to him, "You are not far from the kingdom of God." And no one dared any longer to question Him.

[Who me]

1 hour ago, theInquirer said:

 

I have to ask myself what makes me right and the atheist wrong, and I conclude that it is absolutely nothing except for the logic behind each position.

Have you actualy looked at the logic/reasoning behind atheism?

How can an atheist make an absolute statement that slavery, for example is wrong, what do they base such a statement on? Morality, that is societies construction, their opinion, or the 'Christian idea that people are valueble and have rights?

It haunts me to think that two people can look at the same data and yet draw such different conclusions, yet with (at least on the face of it) many arguments and reasons for believing their side.

People base there thinking on presupositions, that is previously formed idea. So an atheist will look at the bible with a bias to reject God.

my tentative conclusion is that to an extent it is impossible to know whether our very existence is or is not some cosmic joke by an evil power,

Ah the problem of evil. Well what is the atheists answer, does it compare in any way to the Christian response?

What of Jesus? There are no historians who doubt he lived, died and was burried. Most will also say that the disciples believed they had met with the risen Jesus and that this transformed there lives.

Over 300 years an obscure yet radicle sect became the major believe in the empire and influenced society.

If you are prepared to read search for " The Misionary Roots of Liberal Democracy." it is a long read, but shows just how transforming evangelical Christianity is on society.

there comes a point where we really have no way of knowing whether we are right or wrong, and so we must choose the path that does not lead to absurdity.

There is a simple test. Is Christianity true or false. Can you demonstrate that it is false? Actually you can, just show that Jesus did not rise from the dead.

Atheism, demonstrate that there is a God. simple fact atheism is a minority belief, most people believe in God(s) or the supernatural. Ever wondered why?

[Pekoudah]

Treating others as you want to be treated (IOW seeing others just as human as you are so then loving your neighbour as yourself) is in all the great religions and philosophies. After all, if we can't get along with each other...society breaks down. So then Confucius and Socrates both subscribed to loving your neighbour...and in this there were indeed teaching correctly...on the human level.

But there is more to life than what meets the mortal senses.

Christianity is about an eternal kind of life that loves in a divine way...not just a human way. A Christian loves as Jesus loves...at least if that person is abiding in Christ. Christianity is about power...the power of God brought about by God having been incarnated into mankind through Jesus Christ.

 

So then yes....the difference is Jesus Christ. :)

[Hawkins]

On 3/28/2019 at 12:22 AM, theInquirer said:

Okay, I need advice. . .

 

If God is evil, there's not much humans can do. We do only what we can, under our capabilities. So you don't even need to consider that God is evil.

Edited May 7, 2019 by Hawkins

[Still Alive]

On 3/28/2019 at 12:22 AM, theInquirer said:

Okay, I need advice. . . I was going over a chapter in this book discussing how one ought to examine oneself to make sure one's motives in general are good, and so I did, asking whether I would still obey God if there was no hell from which to be saved, and while I conclude that I would indeed still obey Him, it got me wondering how I could prove that God is, indeed, good.  Well of course, I thought to myself, because the Bible says so!  But if God is really not good, then how can we trust what is said to us in the Bible?  I pointed out to myself that the Bible is certainly historically accurate, and thus we are definitely given an accurate view of how God demonstrates and proves His love to us in answering countless promises He made in the Bible.  "The proof is in the pudding," as they say.  After all, I thought, if God is really some evil agent trying to lure us into a deadly web of falsehood, then why the hard line about suffering?  If someone really wanted to deceive people into buying into a belief system, wouldn't it make sense rather for endless promises of success and comfort to be given?  But then I had the nasty thought that, well, if this agent were evil, it would necessarily imply that a good exists, and based off other arguments, this good power would be greater that this hypothetical evil power.  Thus, one could construe that somehow this greater good power is restraining the evil power to only be able to do certain evils and/or perhaps to only do evil as long as good is also done, or some such arrangement; essentially, that instead of things working together for good, they'd be working together for bad.  What it comes down to is this: what prevents Christianity from being a smoke screen, and another religion being the real thing?  So I've been worrying intensely about that for the past while, and tbh idk where to go for answers because no matter what evidence is given in favor of Christianity, it could be brushed off as being merely part of the "illusion" set up by the evil power opposing the true religion.

And btw this is not me turning agnostic or anything, I often question things just because that's part of my nature, but I usually get them proven back, and they end up being stronger than ever. . . tbh I've been known to doubt my own existence.

 

I really hate the "turn or burn" message and consider it poison to Christianity. We are motivated by two things:

1. Desire for something good to happen

2. Fear of something bad happening.

The Gospel (good news) is about desire to be with Jesus and experience eternal life with him and enjoy His goodness. If one is a Christian because they fear "hell", they are doing it wrong. It is not the message of the bible. 

The difference between Christianity and man made religions can be summed up in a single word: Grace.

 

Jewishnotgreek.com

Edited May 7, 2019 by Still Alive

[Willa]

On 3/27/2019 at 9:42 PM, theInquirer said:

Haha naw I just tend to question everything, it's just my nature . . . XD 

Honestly tho, that tendency makes me really be able to defend all of my beliefs extremely effectively because whenever someone gives me an objection to my view, I've already asked the question earlier and thus am already way ahead of the opposition, so I know how to respond.

I also tend to question things.  The last thing I laid on God's alter was all my questioning concerning Him and His Word.  I surrendered all to Him and it set me free.  He is not totally Lord of my life and I immediately gave myself back to Him as His bond slave to righteousness.

Rom 6:18  And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.

 

[Willa]

8 hours ago, Still Alive said:

I really hate the "turn or burn" message and consider it poison to Christianity.

That is not the Gospel, the Good News of God's grace and love.  It never attracted me to Christianity either.  But those who reject the good news need to hear it.  

 

[Leyla]

On 3/28/2019 at 6:08 AM, missmuffet said:

The difference in other religions and Christianity?

Jesus Christ

Other religions could say "The difference in other religions and X, is that we have Wischnu, or the real last prophet mohammad etc" and point to how that makes them special

 

On 3/28/2019 at 9:18 AM, Blood Bought 1953 said:

It’s been said many times but it bears repeating—Religion says “ do”, Christianity says “ done”. Christianity is NOT a religion.....

I can copy you Quran verses of "do" and "done" and if I looked for similair things in other religious books, then I could find it too.

 

On 3/28/2019 at 10:20 AM, Who me said:

Look at what the beliefs encourage there followers to do.

Which has had the most influence for good, done the most good.

Look at what it encourages followers to do? Like ripping of your eye or arm if you look at another person lustfully [Matthew 5:29] or devalue humans to the point where you have to accept that a huge portion of humanity will have to suffer in hell for all eternity? What about encouraging slavery in Exodus 21?

 

On 3/28/2019 at 10:20 AM, Who me said:

Which has had the most influence for good, done the most good.

What about the dark ages where books of science and philosophy were burned, great minds like galileo surpressed etc. Even now religion is often the main motivation to deny science (for example  evolution), or to not give acess to contraceptions.

 

On 4/22/2019 at 2:45 PM, Mike Mclees said:

I would say being followers of Christ does the most good. We say Christians but it a very miss used missed use word used in our modern day free world. Also the word Catholic is highly miss used. Anyone can be a Christian today. Its just like the world. The good Side and the dark side.    We can't help it because good and evil  exists since the fall of man. When the church was born at Pentecost the church was filled with the Holy Ghost but with time it became evil and corrupt. and the Holy Spirit left. The word Christian no longer means what it did in antilock  

Christianity is the largest religion and its also largely present in the power houses of the world, so its naturally that alot of good things come from christians. However, can we really say that these good things only came because they were christians? If we dont count in the christian church, then christian charity organisation dont seem all that impressive anymore.  The largest private charity organisation is the Bill and Melinda organisation and it was launched by an atheist.

 

On 4/22/2019 at 5:13 PM, Abdicate said:

 

You went to college, didn't you? I can tell by your rambling confusion. It's not a diss, and I mean that, but an observation based on:

Universities reduce everything to a formula. Therefore, all religions demand you to act and do something to be found worthy. Christianity demands nothing for you to do anything to be worthy. Still, the "1, 2, 3, pray after me" false doctrine is killing the truth of Christianity and causing everyone to question it like you. It's because very few actually believe the word of God.

Universities teach valuable skills and these skills are what made our societies so good, so I dont think that their model of reducing everything to a formula, or to make everything super simplistic and logical is a bad thing.

On 4/26/2019 at 6:42 AM, Who me said:

I have to ask myself what makes me right and the atheist wrong, and I conclude that it is absolutely nothing except for the logic behind each position. Have you actualy looked at the logic/reasoning behind atheism?

I dont think that there is one atheistic worldview, because atheism is the rejection of a religion and doesnt tell you much about a person. I mean you cant draw any conclusion from a person, just because hes an atheist, or an abiologist, or an astronomist etc.

 

On 4/26/2019 at 6:42 AM, Who me said:

How can an atheist make an absolute statement that slavery, for example is wrong, what do they base such a statement on? Morality, that is societies construction, their opinion, or the 'Christian idea that people are valueble and have rights?

Slavery is bad because of 2 main things. 1 Is that  its unproductive in the grand scheme of things. Slaves are cheap but produce less. The hard work, that was usually reserved for slaves is now replaced with machines. In this time we need qualified workers and thats not something you get with slaves. Thats why we have an interest, to have qualified and well nourished workers. Nr 2 and thats the more important part, is that I dont want to be a slave. Its a fairly miserable "job", destroys your health, doesnt pay well and is generally just bad. Because I dont want it, I can assume that others dont want it too. I dont want people to force me to be a slave. I am physicially weak, but even if I wasnt, I dont want other people to force me into slavery and thats why I want some kind of protection. The legal system protects me and others and I have to return (not yet) pay taxes. People finance it with money but we can look at money as a ressource. People want ressources. Thats why they will go out of their way, to do the things I want them to do. In this case I want protection and give  ressources, they give me in return a legal system, police etc. Even without morality this could function as something like a soul-les ant community. But generally morality has a  fairly strong naturalistic explanation. Its a tool that that is very important for intelligent social animals.

 

On 4/26/2019 at 6:42 AM, Who me said:

Ah the problem of evil. Well what is the atheists answer, does it compare in any way to the Christian response?

The naturalistic view of evil is that in the grand scheme of, evil does not exist. What we call evil are simply behaviours that are very destructive or disruptive to our society and thats why we have a strong desire to stop them. Good things are things, that are pleasent for us, good for our society etc.

 

On 4/26/2019 at 6:42 AM, Who me said:

What of Jesus? There are no historians who doubt he lived, died and was burried. Most will also say that the disciples believed they had met with the risen Jesus and that this transformed there lives.

 

Over 300 years an obscure yet radicle sect became the major believe in the empire and influenced society.

Let me give you an example, of what a muslim would say: "What about prophet mohammad? There is no doubt that he lived, died and was burried, we even know that he is burried (at the mosque in Medina). He was born 600 years after the last prophet. He was born as a poor orphan, in mekkah where the jews, christians, paegans and others did not even believe in what he said,  so he had to flee his home city. Just a few years later, he build such a strong force of believers, that he could easily take over mekkah and all the other cities around it and islamise it. And this group of believers, later became one of the most influencial forces that live on earth  and it will probably outgrow christianity in the next 50-100 years."

 

On 4/26/2019 at 6:42 AM, Who me said:

There is a simple test. Is Christianity true or false. Can you demonstrate that it is false? Actually you can, just show that Jesus did not rise from the dead.

 

Atheism, demonstrate that there is a God. simple fact atheism is a minority belief, most people believe in God(s) or the supernatural. Ever wondered why?

Do you have any reason to think that this life is a test and not the only thing we have? How would a world look like, with no test and a limited life with no afterlife? If you can tell me how such a world would like like in your opinion, we could start to compare it with our world, and see if there are similarities. Also can you explain to me how atheism demonstrates a God?

 

On 5/7/2019 at 1:46 PM, Pekoudah said:

Treating others as you want to be treated (IOW seeing others just as human as you are so then loving your neighbour as yourself) is in all the great religions and philosophies. After all, if we can't get along with each other...society breaks down. So then Confucius and Socrates both subscribed to loving your neighbour...and in this there were indeed teaching correctly...on the human level.

I want to copy a wikipedia page about the golden rule. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Rule    " The idea dates at least to the early Confucian times (551–479 BC) according to Rushworth Kidder, who identifies that this concept appears prominently in Buddhism, Christianity, Hinduism, Judaism, Taoism, Zoroastrianism, and "the rest of the world's major religions".^[3] The concept of the Rule is codified in the Code of Hammurabi stele and tablets, 1754-1790 BC" So even before christ, people knew to treat each other how you want to be treated.

 

On 5/7/2019 at 1:46 PM, Pekoudah said:

Christianity is about an eternal kind of life that loves in a divine way...not just a human way. A Christian loves as Jesus loves...at least if that person is abiding in Christ. Christianity is about power...the power of God brought about by God having been incarnated into mankind through Jesus Christ.

Its not only about eternal life, its also about eternal torture and we cant leave that one out.

 

On 5/7/2019 at 2:03 PM, Hawkins said:

If God is evil, there's not much humans can do. We do only what we can, under our capabilities. So you don't even need to consider that God is evil.

If we find out that God is evil, then we will have more time enjoying our life and not waste it with things that are useless if a loving God does not exist (praying, church etc)

On 5/7/2019 at 2:07 PM, Still Alive said:

I really hate the "turn or burn" message and consider it poison to Christianity. We are motivated by two things:

1. Desire for something good to happen

2. Fear of something bad happening.

The Gospel (good news) is about desire to be with Jesus and experience eternal life with him and enjoy His goodness. If one is a Christian because they fear "hell", they are doing it wrong. It is not the message of the bible. 

The difference between Christianity and man made religions can be summed up in a single word: Grace.

Jewishnotgreek.com

Muslims adore their prophets and God too, thats why so many want to die in combat to share the same heaven as their prophets. I would not say that followers of other religions are doing it just because of fear of hell. The word gracious is what stood out, because the first sentence of the Quran is "In the name of Allah, the merciful, the especially/most merciful" (can be gracefull too, depending on translation). Christianity is not the only one, that believes their God to be graceful.   [Edit: Im sorry if all my comparisons with other religions are about islam, its the only other religion I know enough to talk about, I will try to include buddhism in the near future too]

Edited May 9, 2019 by Leyla

[Who me]

1 hour ago, Leyla said:

 

"Look at what it encourages followers to do? Like ripping of your eye or arm if you look at another person lustfully [Matthew 5:29] or devalue humans to the point where you have to accept that a huge portion of humanity will have to suffer in hell for all eternity? What about encouraging slavery in Exodus 21?"

There is nothing like strawman arguments for devaluing an oponent.

People don not wake upand decide to commiting a crime, they wake up with thoughts of 'I want...'

Jesus is talking about how ones thourghts lead to action and to change those thought paterns.

"What about the dark ages where books of science and philosophy were burned, great minds like galileo surpressed etc. Even now religion is often the main motivation to deny science (for example evolution), or to not give acess to contraceptions."

More strawman arguments. The Christian monistries were centers of learning and of research.

Galileo yes the universities did suppress learning as what he was proposing, as it was against what they taught. Just as creationism based on the bible and science is opposed by universities etc today because what they teach is not scientific.

"Christianity is the largest religion and its also largely present in the power houses of the world, so its naturally that alot of good things come from christians. However, can we really say that these good things only came because they were christians? If we dont count in the christian church, then christian charity organisation dont seem all that impressive anymore. The largest private charity organisation is the Bill and Melinda organisation and it was launched by an atheist."

Why do Christian seek to do 'good'?

Why do atheists do 'good'? Are they not taking a 'Christian' idea and adopting it.

"I dont think that there is one atheistic worldview, because atheism is the rejection of a religion and doesnt tell you much about a person. I mean you cant draw any conclusion from a person, just because hes an atheist, or an abiologist, or an astronomist etc.

"

That does not answer the question. It does not enable anyone to determine what is right or wrong except by how it affects me.

"Slavery is bad " Why is slavery bad? What moral reasons are there in atheism that say 'slaverey is bad!'

"The naturalistic view of evil is that in the grand scheme of, evil does not exist. What we call evil are simply behaviours that are very destructive or disruptive to our society and thats why we have a strong desire to stop them. Good things are things, that are pleasent for us, good for our society etc."

Yet atheist say things are evil. They say that somethings are wrong, not that they are alternative ways of behaviour. Interesting Dawkins book, 'The God delusion' was originally called, 'the Root of all Evil', he also discribes Islam as an evil religeon.

Then there is the philisoipical argument, Atheism, Theism, and the Problem of Evil.

For something that doesn't exist it generates a lot of interest.

"Let me give you an example, of what a muslim would say: "What about prophet mohammad? There is no doubt that he lived, died and was burried, we even know that he is burried (at the mosque in Medina). He was born 600 years after the last prophet. He was born as a poor orphan, in mekkah where the jews, christians, paegans and others did not even believe in what he said, so he had to flee his home city. Just a few years later, he build such a strong force of believers, that he could easily take over mekkah and all the other cities around it and islamise it. And this group of believers, later became one of the most influencial forces that live on earth and it will probably outgrow christianity in the next 50-100 years."

Three key points. He died and is still in his tomb.

Islam spreads by force.

Islam believes that Jesus didn't die and that he will return.

You want to live in a cultre that will compell you to behave, that does not accept critism or questioning?

"Do you have any reason to think that this life is a test and not the only thing we have? How would a world look like, with no test and a limited life with no afterlife? If you can tell me how such a world would like like in your opinion, we could start to compare it with our world, and see if there are similarities.

What evidence do you have to show that there is no after life etc.

"Also can you explain to me how atheism demonstrates a God?"

To argue against something that does not exist is pointless. Therefore because atheists argue against God, God exists.