Christianity vs Other Religions

[Leyla]

1 hour ago, Jayne said:

https://www.shutterstock.com/image-photo/fossilized-shells-embedded-rock-millions-years-553907293?src=kPdsJeARcPs9fOuTaUN0YA-1-36

Can you maybe check your first link? I get an error when I click on it ( maybe somethings wrong with me).

 

1 hour ago, Jayne said:

Also here is a fossilized frog from the Cretaceous Period.  He looks just like the frogs of today.  Can you show any fossil evidence of frogs transitioning to a completely different animal or something transitioning TO a frog those millions of  years ago?

http://www.fossilmuseum.net/Fossil-Pictures/Frogs/Callobatrachus/BF076B.jpg

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frog#Life_cycle             We can date that frogs  are atleast 265 million years old so we can expect similarities.  I also found something specific for this species  https://www.liquisearch.com/frog/evolution    "An early, well-preserved fossil of Sanyanlichan (the frog you send me), which lived 125 million years ago, was found in China in 2001. It had all the characteristics of modern frogs but there were nine presacral vertebrae in its backbone instead of the eight found in present-day species."  This fossil shows evolution beautifully. Yes, the ancient frogs and our modern frogs look similiar. However, there are distinct differences. If you kept sending me pictures of frogs, from the Cretaceous Period, until today, then we could see how  the amount of vertebrates slowly changes or how other body parts slowly turn into the features of our modern frogs.

 

1 hour ago, Jayne said:

These clam fossils are allegedly millions of year old.  They look just like what you would find on the beach today.  I guess the clam didn't evolve.  And if this clam evolved from something else - less complicated, further down towards the original single cell that evolutionists believe life came from - then where are those fossils?  Can you show me a picture of  a transitional fossil? 

Excuse me, the other link did not work (for me) so I cant say anything about clams (incase that link was about clams). Please give me the scientific paper of the clam you are talking about.

 

1 hour ago, Jayne said:

And I've always thought it arrogant of men and women who purport themselves to experts to claim that, "Well, this organ or that body part is vestigial in my opinion, ergo there is no God."

 

Well, its very easy to conclude that some organs are Vestigial, let me give you a very clear example. Here is a picture of a Kiwi wing. https://adventuresofakiwichick.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/kiwi-wing-moult.jpg       These wings are absolutely deformed and useless. They are evolutionary history that is not completly gone yet. These things are absolutely useless and  not beneficial to the animal in any way.

 

1 hour ago, Jayne said:

I know that you are not ready to believe what God's word says.  I'm convinced that you can be.  I'm convinced that he is drawing you to him.  I will continue to pray for you.

Thanks for the prayer. Maybe I will believe in what God says one day, however we have to admit that God went through great lengths, to hide his existence or his interference on our planet and the universe. There is absolutely nothing in the universe that points to a God. (except the mystery of the origin of the universe, but even that would only proof to "a god" or "gods" and not yachweh)

Edited May 10, 2019 by Leyla

[theInquirer]

On 4/26/2019 at 1:42 AM, Who me said:

I have to ask myself what makes me right and the atheist wrong, and I conclude that it is absolutely nothing except for the logic behind each position.

Have you actualy looked at the logic/reasoning behind atheism?

How can an atheist make an absolute statement that slavery, for example is wrong, what do they base such a statement on? Morality, that is societies construction, their opinion, or the 'Christian idea that people are valueble and have rights?

It haunts me to think that two people can look at the same data and yet draw such different conclusions, yet with (at least on the face of it) many arguments and reasons for believing their side.

People base there thinking on presupositions, that is previously formed idea. So an atheist will look at the bible with a bias to reject God.

my tentative conclusion is that to an extent it is impossible to know whether our very existence is or is not some cosmic joke by an evil power,

Ah the problem of evil. Well what is the atheists answer, does it compare in any way to the Christian response?

What of Jesus? There are no historians who doubt he lived, died and was burried. Most will also say that the disciples believed they had met with the risen Jesus and that this transformed there lives.

Over 300 years an obscure yet radicle sect became the major believe in the empire and influenced society.

If you are prepared to read search for " The Misionary Roots of Liberal Democracy." it is a long read, but shows just how transforming evangelical Christianity is on society.

there comes a point where we really have no way of knowing whether we are right or wrong, and so we must choose the path that does not lead to absurdity.

There is a simple test. Is Christianity true or false. Can you demonstrate that it is false? Actually you can, just show that Jesus did not rise from the dead.

Atheism, demonstrate that there is a God. simple fact atheism is a minority belief, most people believe in God(s) or the supernatural. Ever wondered why?

I must agree with you that yes, the attitude with which one approaches a question will, in all likelihood, determine what your answer is.  But that's exactly my point: if what we believe is ultimately going to come down to what we want to believe, then how can we at all know that we are right?  That's basically why I am so obsessed over trying to find the ultimate truth to almost everything in life.

And actually I wasn't so much being bothered by the problem of evil, but it was more a question of how we know that it is a good God Who rules over us and not a bad one.  Any information that we receive on the topic will ultimately have to come from whichever God is in charge, which makes that information unreliable because we need an information from an objective source that is separate and unconnected with this God.  

After considering my question for a while, my response to it was that ultimately, since we cannot choose the option of absurdity on the matter, the best information we have is of how, throughout history, God has always proven true in those statements He made that are verifiable; therefore, why should we not believe those which are not verifiable?   He said He would overthrow Babylon, and He did.  Therefore, why should we not also believe that He will overthrow sin?

As a side note, isn't it impossible to positively prove that Jesus didn't rise from the dead?  The best one could possibly do is to prove that it is not possible to know that He did rise from the dead, not that He actually didn't.  

Although I suppose that if the former was proved, we would be forced to automatically assume the latter is true (that He actually didn't rise from the dead) because if we are being logically consistent, then to assume that an event of the magnitude of improbability of Jesus rising from the dead (with no evidence of it happening, we would be assuming this arbitrarily) would necessarily imply that we ought also to assume other events up to the probability of this magnitude.  That bothers me tbh. . .

[theInquirer]

On 4/26/2019 at 4:33 PM, Abdicate said:

You sound like René Descartes, Ego cogito, ergo sum, "I think, therefore I am." (1641) My reasoning for commenting on you being in college shows that my college days of philosophy has made it down into high school - surely grade school even. Proof of God is absolutely everywhere. We are surrounded by His existence. Mathematics is universal and the only pure language. With so much exquisite uniqueness and harmony throughout the universe created by God, well, that work would also appear in the word of God, and it does. Proverbs 25:2.

Philosophy will not find God. Science will not recognize God. Mathematics cannot hide God. The meaning of "faith" is the "strong conviction of a belief." Faith is not blind, nor does God expect you to follow blindly. “Come now, let us reason together, says the LORD..." Isaiah 1:18a. God wants your trust to believe in Him and His written word. The scriptures are given to show us how to live, but the world and academia wants to disprove the word of God without reading it.

Proverbs 21:2
Every way of a man [is] right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts. 

Take this verse. Is not the first part true? Ask anyone anything and they'll give you a belief, either through experiential or through teaching. Point out to anyone on this site they are wrong and you've started a heated debate. This verse also states that though everyone sees themselves as being right, God ponders the heart, Luke 16:15.

Believe the word of God based on what it says, not what others say about it; it will prove itself, and God, for it is His voice to the deaf.

Actually, I'm not even in a public high school, but rather I am a homeschooled teen who had been surrounded all his life by Christian society and really good people.  This questioning is actually completely coming from me.

I realize that natural science cannot give us the whole Bible written out for us, but it can give us a good bit, such as proof for the existence of God and useful insight into His nature as observed by reality as we understand it.  Philosophy can prove the existence of a moral value.  Science can prove the validity of the Creation account.  Yes, and mathematics underlies science, thus contributing as well.  

And I will say that this isn't about me wanting to believe God or not. . . I really, truly, and honestly do want to Christianity to be true, but I am just ridiculously obsessed with making sure that it is, in fact, true.  I have to make sure that I am right about this, because if I am not, then everything I have based my life and hope and future off of is meaningless and absurd.  And tbh that scares me quite a bit.

But you seem to be saying, just believe.  I'm saying that unless Christianity is positively proven false, I will believe, because I do really want to believe.  But beyond that, I also want positive proof of my position, if I can have it, because it adds security to my position.  So yeah, maybe I'm just being insecure about my faith, but regardless, proof cannot hurt anything, right?  I will admit, though, that you are right that I ought not to be so insecure about my faith when it seems that neither side (Christianity vs. every other belief) is inherently probable or proved.

[theInquirer]

On 5/7/2019 at 9:07 AM, Still Alive said:

I really hate the "turn or burn" message and consider it poison to Christianity. We are motivated by two things:

1. Desire for something good to happen

2. Fear of something bad happening.

The Gospel (good news) is about desire to be with Jesus and experience eternal life with him and enjoy His goodness. If one is a Christian because they fear "hell", they are doing it wrong. It is not the message of the bible. 

The difference between Christianity and man made religions can be summed up in a single word: Grace.

 

Jewishnotgreek.com

No, I wasn't intending to say that I was talking about the turn or burn thing at all.  My question was instead about how we (can) know that God is good.

Responding to your reply, though, I must point out that you only know you're going to burn if you know that Jesus is real.  After all, how can you be saved unless there's something to be saved from?  

My view is that the "turn or burn" message in general causes people to take Christianity seriously, even if it makes them uncomfortable.  True, people sometimes try to follow God only because they're afraid of hell, but in truth, if you're really following God, it will be because you love Him; thus, if the turn or burn message does truly turn even one person to God, it is worth it to the utmost.

So essentially, "turn or burn" either does nothing (i.e. it is ignored or taken wrongly) or it does something (i.e. it actually saves someone).  There is no negative to consider, right?

[theInquirer]

On 5/7/2019 at 5:11 PM, Willa said:

I also tend to question things.  The last thing I laid on God's alter was all my questioning concerning Him and His Word.  I surrendered all to Him and it set me free.  He is not totally Lord of my life and I immediately gave myself back to Him as His bond slave to righteousness.

Rom 6:18  And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.

 

Oh, well I didn't mean questioning in the sense that I genuinely do not believe in God, but rather that I want to know why I believe Him, you might say.  When I ask how we know God exists, I'm not asking out of unbelief, I'm asking out of hope for more belief and hope for "not less" belief.

[Blood Bought 1953]

 

If Jesus did not rise from the dead— ignore Him

If Jesus “ Did” rise from the dead— you darn

well better listen to everything He said.

This is what it all comes down to.....did He or did He “ not” walk out of that tomb.Your decision will decide your Eternal Destiny....A wise person would do some serious investigation.....All the disciples died horrible deaths for their Faith.....all they had to do was say “ hey, I was just kidding about that Jesus was  the Son of God stuff, at most He was just a wise prophet, now let me go sacrifice a goat to atone for my lie”None of these Followers backed down or recanted their faith.Many a man has died standing up for the Truth.Do you know anybody that would die for a lie?Jesus is alive and you had better believe it.

[Willa]

3 minutes ago, theInquirer said:

Oh, well I didn't mean questioning in the sense that I genuinely do not believe in God, but rather that I want to know why I believe Him, you might say.  When I ask how we know God exists, I'm not asking out of unbelief, I'm asking out of hope for more belief and hope for "not less" belief.

I goofed when I typed.  God was not Lord of all my life till I stoped questioning Him.  He used me to help provide for the need to the dollar for someone else before they were even aware they were overdrawn at the bank. I actually just provided for the overdraft charge but my friend who was also led to give provided for the main amount.  That fact that God would use me to help do this before they had even received their notice from the bank just blew my mind.  He is every bit the omniscient, omnipresent God Who provides our needs that the Bible describes.  Rational arguments didn't do nearly as much as this demonstration of God's love for these Christians that I had never met.

[theInquirer]

35 minutes ago, Willa said:

I goofed when I typed.  God was not Lord of all my life till I stoped questioning Him.  He used me to help provide for the need to the dollar for someone else before they were even aware they were overdrawn at the bank. I actually just provided for the overdraft charge but my friend who was also led to give provided for the main amount.  That fact that God would use me to help do this before they had even received their notice from the bank just blew my mind.  He is every bit the omniscient, omnipresent God Who provides our needs that the Bible describes.  Rational arguments didn't do nearly as much as this demonstration of God's love for these Christians that I had never met.

Here's the thing: is the argument you just made above a rational one?  If not, then one may discount the assertion that rational arguments do not mean anything.  If so, then you just used reason to try to disprove reason.

I guess I am saying that your experience is in a way a rational argument in and of itself.

[theInquirer]

1 hour ago, Blood Bought 1953 said:

 

If Jesus did not rise from the dead— ignore Him

If Jesus “ Did” rise from the dead— you darn

well better listen to everything He said.

This is what it all comes down to.....did He or did He “ not” walk out of that tomb.Your decision will decide your Eternal Destiny....A wise person would do some serious investigation.....All the disciples died horrible deaths for their Faith.....all they had to do was say “ hey, I was just kidding about that Jesus was  the Son of God stuff, at most He was just a wise prophet, now let me go sacrifice a goat to atone for my lie”None of these Followers backed down or recanted their faith.Many a man has died standing up for the Truth.Do you know anybody that would die for a lie?Jesus is alive and you had better believe it.

Well said

I want to point out that I do believe this, just in case you or anyone else got the impression from my question that I do not or do not want to believe it

[Blood Bought 1953]

 

If you believe this, you are half-way home ......The Gospel That Jesus guarantees will save you if you believe it, has two parts: Believe that Jesus died for your sins..... Believe that He rose from the dead......It is a Gospel Of pure Grace, don’t add any works to it or you nullify it.God wants you to rest in His Promise,lest He will declare you in a state of unbelief.  I am not trying to complicate things....if one really BELIEVES it, all the caveats will take are of themselves and you can ignore the warnings .