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Is Pre Wrath the Correct Position?


Diaste

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9 hours ago, Uriah said:

Diaste,

 As I see it, believers are here in the entire tribulation. In Rev 16 Jesus says He is coming like a thief (hasn't come yet) on the very brink of Armageddon!

The wrath we are not appointed to is that of the judgment.

I agree, the entire tribulation, which days are cut short or no flesh would be saved. The wrath of God is judgement on unregenerate mankind, the rebels, which wrath begins at the 6th seal. Seems we are in complete agreement on this. ?

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9 hours ago, Uriah said:

My apologies Diaste, 

Somehow in my haste I was looking my your post and replied to OneLight. (but I think it fits too, I will re-visit it shortly. so here is what I said about these things:

  Perhaps I didn't make it clear enough. I absolutely believe our spirit returns to God. Restating, when a believer dies his spirit returns to God and pass through time -from our perspective. For example, someone who died a hundred years ago will be transported to meet Him in the air having immediately receiving a new body <FROM HIS PERSPECTIVE AND EXPERIENCE> while to us he has been gone for a hundred years. He passes from death to life in a moment (to him). But he will not "enter" (Matt 25:21 & 23) until the rest of us do as well. Again see Heb:11:40.

Rev 16:17- And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

Is 6:1- In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple.

Ps 11:4- The LORD is in his holy temple, the LORD'S throne is in heaven: his eyes behold, his eyelids try, the children of men.

So for people to be saved by believing the one and only true Gospel that we believe and NOT be afforded the same promises that are IN the Gospel, it is another gospel.

There is nothing here with which I disagree.

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23 hours ago, Uriah said:

In Rev 16 Jesus says He is coming like a thief (hasn't come yet) on the very brink of Armageddon!

A very telling sequencing of events for those who will hear it.

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5 hours ago, Last Daze said:

A very telling sequencing of events for those who will hear it.

 

Good point, not everyone is willing to hear it

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I would say it is pre-wrath, but one has to determine when "wrath" starts.  And it doesn't necessarily start only when the word first shows up in Revelation.    I would say that when Yahweh brought the flood upon the earth and destroyed all life except that in the Ark and sea life, that event was His wrath.  But nowhere in that event is the word "wrath" mentioned.  Matter of fact, the word "wrath" doesn't show up till over 40 chapters later in Genesis.  But there was a  lot of "wrath" that went on from Yahweh before Genesis 49 when the word finally shows up.

In Isaiah 26, it seems to suggest that the righteous dead and living are hidden in the chambers prepared for them before the Lord comes out of His place to punish the inhabitants of the earth. That would suggest pre-wrath.  We also look at the seals  of Revelation 6.  None of those events could occur unless Yeshua had broken those seals.  So even though the word "wrath" isn't mentioned, the calamities of those seals surely come about via the hand of Yeshua. They could be equated with the wrath even though the word isn't used.  Just like in Noah's time. 

And the wrath of Yahweh does not have to be directly by His hand.  King Sargon and the Assyrians executed the judgement and wrath of Yahweh upon the northern kingdom of Israel.  Babylon did likewise to the Southern Kingdom.   So, by Yeshua opening the seals it can be similarly argued that the wrath begins at seal one.  Punishment and judgement is coming upon those who dwell on the earth with the very first seal.  It is by proxy, but it is still under the authority of the Lord.

Edited by OldCoot
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