Steward George Posted April 3, 2019 Group: Steward Followers: 110 Topic Count: 10,460 Topics Per Day: 1.26 Content Count: 27,738 Content Per Day: 3.34 Reputation: 15,386 Days Won: 126 Joined: 06/30/2001 Status: Online Birthday: 09/21/1971 Steward Share Posted April 3, 2019 56 minutes ago, Ogner said: So are you trying to say that's about how to love antichrists, witch, criminals, murderer, burglar, rapist... and other villains? Those who do not ask to forgive them. And I'm saying to love your enemies ... herein you have perfected love! To love the person ... is not to love their sin! If you don't separate the two ... you'll never come to a place where you can reach the darkest sinner ... however, once you can see them as Jesus sees them ... that He died for the worst of the worst ... why ... because God is LOVE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted April 3, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 99 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 40,770 Content Per Day: 7.95 Reputation: 21,262 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted April 3, 2019 On 4/1/2019 at 9:08 AM, Ogner said: Does God love satan? Should we love enemies of God? Should we love satan and his children? Can we love God & satan? What is this if not betrayal? Do you think it's possible to love God and satan at the same time? The issue is not should we love them for God 'IS' Love…. the issue is they have no capacity to receive it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogner Posted April 3, 2019 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 562 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 268 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/27/2016 Status: Offline Author Share Posted April 3, 2019 2 hours ago, brotherdon said: Its hurtful seeing the things going on in this world, and would rather not watch the news because of the craziness. I have the most compassion for those that the victim has left behind it must be horrible for them, but also have compassion for the offender because I can't grasp how some one can do such terrible acts. My mom worked for the police force raising 4 children on her own, and was shot in face and wrist. It crippled her wrist, half her tongue is gone,her earlobes, she went thru 7 years of surgery. She is still living and a healthy 74, she was shot at 36. i'm not sure how many shots but it may have been 4 , she was in pretty bad shape. the man emptied his gun then started pistol whipping her to finish it off, thank The Almighty for sending someone to stop it. I was about 16 years old when it happened it turned me into an angry young man. Then a couple years later I found Jesus, and was able to forgive the man that did this and have compassion for him. Maybe it's some kind of Stockholm Syndrome. Stockholm syndrome is when the hostage inexplicably forms a bond with their captor. Hostage loves and forgives all their captor when nobody asked him to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogner Posted April 3, 2019 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 562 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 268 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/27/2016 Status: Offline Author Share Posted April 3, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, George said: And I'm saying to love your enemies ... herein you have perfected love! To love the person ... is not to love their sin! If you don't separate the two ... you'll never come to a place where you can reach the darkest sinner ... however, once you can see them as Jesus sees them ... that He died for the worst of the worst ... why ... because God is LOVE! Once more. The jewish people knew before Jesus how to take care of enemies. In Romans 12:20 Paul does not quote Jesus but the words of Proverbs 25:21 "If your enemy is hungry, give him food to eat;" Why? Why not Jesus? Maybe he wants there to be no confusion. His real intention was to explain to pagans what Jesus means. Which kinds of enemies we must demonstrate love? I know it's not easy. in Proverbs 25:21 Hebrew text versions are used word (נַאֲךָ) saw-nay' - adversary, opponent Then compare with Exodus 15:9 "The enemy boasted, ‘I will pursue, I will overtake them. I will divide the spoils; I will " Hebrew text - (אֹויֵב) o-yabe' - enemy combatant If your [(נַאֲךָ) saw-nay' ] is hungry, give him food to eat. But if If your [(אֹויֵב) o-yabe'] is hungry, leave him alone. Now about guilty to crimes Exodus 20:13 "You shall not murder." Hebrew text - (תִּֿרְצָֽח׃) raw-tsakh' - murder. Bible say about guilty to crimes. How do we define them and what should we do with them? (Numbers 35:16, 21, 31; and Deuteronomy 22:25) Deuteronomy 13:9 "you must kill him without fail!" Bible say about killing in war Numbers 31:7 " They fought against Midian, as the Lord commanded Moses, and killed every man. " Hebrew text - (תַּֽהַרְגֶנּוּ) haw-rag' -kill, put them to death. You shall not [(תִּֿרְצָֽח׃) raw-tsakh' ] but you must [ (תַּֽהַרְגֶנּוּ) haw-rag' ] the guilty Is that so hard to understand? Did God change? Or is God clearly contradicting what He said last night? Edited April 3, 2019 by Ogner 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valenciarosejjj Posted April 3, 2019 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 42 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 82 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/25/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted April 3, 2019 (edited) 9 hours ago, Ogner said: Does God forgive those who do not ask him? Salvation is a gift from God. In order for anyone to be saved, they have to repent of their sins and ask God for forgiveness. Those who reject God and do not ask for forgiveness will not receive it. But, this does not mean that God does not love them. Ogner, God IS love. He is the creator of love. But he also hates sin and justly condemn all who harbors any kind of sin in them. This includes the 'Christian' who harbors feelings of anger, animosity, bitterness and UNFORGIVENESS towards another person. Believers are not exempt from God's anger and will be chastised when we disobey his commandments. "Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice. Ephesians 4:31 Why should I forgive thoes who wish me harm and show no mercy on me? They do not ask me to forgive them. And they're happy when can hurt me. They hate me because of God. Why in God's name should I love them ? You were a sinner before you came to Jesus...right? So, didn't God forgive you? Therefore, since God forgave our sins - we have to forgive others. It's not an option. If we do not forgive others, God will not forgive us. In Matthew 18:21-22, Jesus told Peter that he must forgive those who have sinned against him not once, but many times over "Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, “Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother or sister who sins against me? Up to seven times?” Jesus answered, “I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times. And Matthew 6:14-15 "For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins." For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believes on him is not condemned: but he that believes not is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that does evil hates the light, neither comes to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. (Jn.3:16-20) He that believes on the Son has everlasting life: and he that believes not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God stays on him. (Jn.3:36) Whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them. All of those verses you quoted are absolutely true. But where are the verses that says YOU, OGNER have the authority to condemn anyone whom GOD has created? Truth is, we don't. God is the supreme Judge over all. He has full, absolute and complete authority to judge and condemn all of his creation. Ogner, bad things happens to us. People do and say mean things with the intention to cause harm. But we as Christians have to be mindful of our actions and reactions whenever people attack us. We cannot behave or respond the same way we used to before we came to Christ. We are new creations and we have to live and behave in a manner worthy of our calling. And we have to be very careful to be careful of the ill feelings we harbor inside of us because feelings of anger, bitterness and unforgiveness along with holding grudges against people not only gives a foothold to the devil, but they also grieve the Holy Spirit. And we don't want to grieve the Holy Spirit. Pray on it. God bless. Edited April 3, 2019 by valenciarosejjj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steward George Posted April 3, 2019 Group: Steward Followers: 110 Topic Count: 10,460 Topics Per Day: 1.26 Content Count: 27,738 Content Per Day: 3.34 Reputation: 15,386 Days Won: 126 Joined: 06/30/2001 Status: Online Birthday: 09/21/1971 Steward Share Posted April 3, 2019 3 hours ago, Ogner said: Did God change? Or is God clearly contradicting what He said last night? Two different issues ... before Jesus came ... God was preserving the Jewish race so that the promises of the Jewish Messiah could be fulfilled. The New Testament clearly speaks of loving your enemy. If you refuse to do so ... who's Word are you disobeying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uber Genius Posted April 3, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 36 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 657 Content Per Day: 0.33 Reputation: 244 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/05/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted April 3, 2019 there are some serious exegetical concerns about this post. Firstly, you are making sweeping generalizations about the term enemy that don't hold. That is you are including in the contexts of Jesus' saying that it included all created beings including Satan. This is not at all in view in Jesus statement love your enemy. In the diagram let P equal humans (since the context is human relations) and let Q equal enemies. There condjuct P and Q would exclude satan, but not his followers who are human. I have led satan worshiper to Christ because the HS loved them and drew them to confess Jesus as Lord. Secondly, your idea about impossibility is false. It is not in any creed. It is certainly not true with regard to how God interacts with humans as he starts with all humanity, is abandoned by same and God then chooses to work with his chosen people and then with the New Covenant returns to working with all people. So your premise suffers from basic logical errors and exgetical errors (ignoring the context of Jesus' statement), and finally theological error, suggesting that impossibility (if it even exists as an attribute of God ) applies to how God chooses to work with humans. Clean eat up the logical, exgetical, and theological errors and this becomes a non-issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted April 3, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,989 Topics Per Day: 0.49 Content Count: 48,687 Content Per Day: 11.89 Reputation: 30,342 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted April 3, 2019 There seems to be quite a debate on either side of the fence here. We are suppose to love our enemies? So we are suppose to love Satan? I don't think so. We are to pray for our enemies for their salvation. We as Christians are suppose to show kindness to our enemies. But we are not door mats to let those who hate us grind us into the ground. Pray for them but do not be unevenly yoked as friends with our enemy. We leave Satan to God. Ignore him. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted April 3, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,989 Topics Per Day: 0.49 Content Count: 48,687 Content Per Day: 11.89 Reputation: 30,342 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted April 3, 2019 9 hours ago, George said: And I'm saying to love your enemies ... herein you have perfected love! To love the person ... is not to love their sin! If you don't separate the two ... you'll never come to a place where you can reach the darkest sinner ... however, once you can see them as Jesus sees them ... that He died for the worst of the worst ... why ... because God is LOVE! So why do we have an ignore feature on Worthy? Are we to love it when people verbally abuse us and are unkind to us? We pray for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angels4u Posted April 3, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 56 Topic Count: 1,664 Topics Per Day: 0.20 Content Count: 19,763 Content Per Day: 2.39 Reputation: 12,160 Days Won: 28 Joined: 08/22/2001 Status: Offline Share Posted April 3, 2019 4 minutes ago, missmuffet said: So why do we have an ignore feature on Worthy? Are we to love it when people verbally abuse us and are unkind to us? We pray for them. George is right,we are to love our enemies and see them as God sees them in need of a Savior, you can actually love your enemy if you look at them through the eyes of Jesus,Jesus died for them also and want them to come to Him,so why not pray for to be able to love your enemy? I was in a tough situation at one time and asked God to give me the love for that person and He did .( I'm not saying to become friends with them) What good would it do if we lose our salt and light? Matthew 5:13-16 Salt and Light 13 “You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled underfoot. 14 “You are the light of the world. A town built on a hill cannot be hidden. 15 Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead, they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. 16 In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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