They hate us because of God. Should we love them because of God?

[Ogner]

14 hours ago, Joulre2abba said:

The matter is not whether it's possible to love satan.. because we are not in the Bible told anywhere that we must. But the matter is about our loving "the children of the devil".. which are enslaved willingly or without realizing that they do his bidding.

The declaration of Jesus is that "God so loved the world that He gave His only beloved Son, that whosoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life."

We are not to love satan, but to love those whom satan has blinded in darkness.. from out of which we all were at one time or another.

We've been given the ministry of reconciliation; that God was in Christ reconciling the world unto Himself, not counting against them their transgressions.

When Jesus was on the cross.. put there by the Romans, because of the false testimonies from the Jews. (that is not a justification for making the Jews God's enemies) .. because Jesus while there on the cross, suffering the penalty for the sins of all.. said to God "Father, forgive them for they know not what they do."

If anyone put Jesus on the cross.. we all did. But if we must indict someone.. it's the devil whose behind it all.

Jesus is our acquittal, our redeemer, and He told us that we must take up the cross and follow Him. To do so, is to love, and forgive all. That however does not include forgiving the devil. Because there is no redemption for him.

He said that about Romans. They know not what they do and they were not criminals but hangmans.
That's like accuse the hangman in the implementation of a court decision. It was their job.

What's your point? 
Should I assume that's reason to love antichrists, witch, murderer, burglar, rapist... and other villains ?

[Ogner]

21 hours ago, George said:

If you read my statement .. I said ... be careful of hate ... so re-read what I wrote!

You be careful, too ... so re-read what I wrote!

[Joulre2abba]

7 hours ago, Ogner said:

He said that about Romans. They know not what they do and they were not criminals but hangmans.
That's like accuse the hangman in the implementation of a court decision. It was their job.

Since it was their job then why would Jesus think that he must forgive them? Jesus wasn't addressing a question of them performing their civic duty.. he was addressing their sinful condition.. after all, he was on the cross as the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world.

7 hours ago, Ogner said:

What's your point? 
Should I assume that's reason to love antichrists, witch, murderer, burglar, rapist... and other villains ?

The point is that witches, murderers, burglars, rapists and all other villains are "the world" that God so loved in sending His Son to take the punishment for their sins. They all need salvation. Or else we'll all have to conclude that God isn't loving enough to include them.

The Bible said, "Where sin abounds, (God's) grace does much more abound." God will not let the big-sinners be greater than His love capacity. Therefore we are all in the position of stretching our idea of God's love capability to what His measure truly is.

You are saying that God sees a difference between nominal sinners and big-sin sinners. But the scripture says that God's will is that all be saved and come to the knowledge of the Truth.

That is what makes the good news of the gospel so good because it includes such big sinners. Regardless of whether any of us should think that they deserve such big-love from God or not.

It is marvelous in our eyes how great a love the Father has bestowed upon all the world.

[Joulre2abba]

19 hours ago, Blood Bought 1953 said:

 

I don’t believe there is any chapter and verse in the Bible to even remotely support your understanding of the unforgivable sin.Sorry....not trying to be unkind.......I just think you are way off.

I'm willing to make allowances for your opinions.

May we both be blessed according to Ps. 119:130 The entrance of God's word brings light and understanding to the simple.

[Ogner]

12 hours ago, Joulre2abba said:

Since it was their job then why would Jesus think that he must forgive them? Jesus wasn't addressing a question of them performing their civic duty.. he was addressing their sinful condition.. after all, he was on the cross as the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world.

Jesus said why he did it. Because they know not what they do. They just execute court judgements.

12 hours ago, Joulre2abba said:

The point is that witches, murderers, burglars, rapists and all other villains are "the world" that God so loved in sending His Son to take the punishment for their sins. They all need salvation. Or else we'll all have to conclude that God isn't loving enough to include them.

The Bible said, "Where sin abounds, (God's) grace does much more abound." God will not let the big-sinners be greater than His love capacity. Therefore we are all in the position of stretching our idea of God's love capability to what His measure truly is.

You are saying that God sees a difference between nominal sinners and big-sin sinners. But the scripture says that God's will is that all be saved and come to the knowledge of the Truth.

That is what makes the good news of the gospel so good because it includes such big sinners. Regardless of whether any of us should think that they deserve such big-love from God or not.

It is marvelous in our eyes how great a love the Father has bestowed upon all the world.

So, in your opinion, witches, murderers, burglars, rapists and all other villains...  are "the world" that God so loved in sending His Son to take the punishment for their sins? 
Can love someone and hate his at the same time?

In your opinion, in the Old Testament God says one thing, and then does the complete opposite?

[Joulre2abba]

11 hours ago, Ogner said:

Jesus said why he did it. Because they know not what they do. They just execute court judgements.

You see what they did as a civic duty. I get that. I'm saying otherwise. You don't get that.

11 hours ago, Ogner said:

So, in your opinion, witches, murderers, burglars, rapists and all other villains...  are "the world" that God so loved in sending His Son to take the punishment for their sins? 
Can love someone and hate his at the same time?

Concerning the purpose of God's plan of salvation, to provide redemption for every sinner.. God makes no difference in sinners by measure of sin.

I see though that you make a difference. But you haven't yet given a scripture to support your opinion.

11 hours ago, Ogner said:

In your opinion, in the Old Testament God says one thing, and then does the complete opposite?

This is not an opinion but a record of events that occurred in the old testament. The situation where God said he'd kill (wipe out, consume, destroy.. whatever thesaurus synonym would be appropriate) all the sinners who made a golden calf and worshiped it while dancing in merriment. But then He did the complete opposite in letting them live.

Why? Because God is big on love. God is big on grace. God is big on goodness. God is big on mercy.

God told us to love God and love our neighbor as ourselves. God so loved the world and gave us the ministry of reconciliation, we are to plead in Christ's stead to the sinners, no matter what measure of sin they've done.. that God is not counting against them their trespasses / sin.

Because where sin abounds (I'd say that's talking about the witches, murderers, burglars, rapists and all other villains).. God's grace does much more abound.

The pharisees taught the law that would say "death to all witches, murderers, burglars, rapists and all other villains".. but Jesus taught mercy. Jesus said to them ".. he that is without sin cast the first stone." They in the righteousness according to keeping the law realized that they were not without sin, "for all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God."

All sinners are in the same boat, there is no first class, second, third, ...... rock bottom unredeemable class.

The apostle John wrote ".. to anyone who comes unto Him, He will in nowise cast out."

Praise the Lord for God is good and His mercy endures forever.

[Ogner]

12 hours ago, Joulre2abba said:

I see though that you make a difference. But you haven't yet given a scripture to support your opinion.

The jewish people knew before Jesus how to take care of enemies.

In Romans 12:20 Paul does not quote Jesus but the words of Proverbs 25:21 "If your enemy is hungry, give him food to eat;" 

Why? Why not Jesus? Maybe he wants there to be no confusion.

His real intention was to explain to pagans what Jesus means. Which kinds of enemies we must demonstrate love?  I know it's not easy.

in Proverbs 25:21 Hebrew text versions are used word  (נַאֲךָ)  saw-nay'  - adversary, opponent

Then compare with Exodus 15:9 "The enemy boasted, ‘I will pursue, I will overtake them. I will divide the spoils; I will "

Hebrew  text - (אֹויֵב) o-yabe' - enemy combatant

If your [(נַאֲךָ)  saw-nay' ] is hungry, give him food to eat. But if If your [(אֹויֵב) o-yabe'] is hungry, leave him alone.

Now about guilty to crimes

Exodus 20:13 "You shall not murder."

Hebrew  text - (תִּֿרְצָֽח׃) raw-tsakh'  - murder.

Bible say about guilty to crimes. How do we define them and what should we do with them? (Numbers 35:16, 21, 31; and Deuteronomy 22:25)  Deuteronomy 13:9 "you must kill him without fail!"

Bible say about killing in war Numbers 31:7 " They fought against Midian, as the Lord commanded Moses, and killed every man. "

Hebrew  text - (תַּֽהַרְגֶנּוּ) haw-rag'  -kill, put them to death.

You shall not [(תִּֿרְצָֽח׃) raw-tsakh' ]  but you must [ (תַּֽהַרְגֶנּוּ) haw-rag' ] the guilty without fail

In the Old Testament God says one thing, and then does the complete opposite?

Psalms 5: 5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.
6 Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the LORD will abhor the bloody and deceitful man.
 

Psalms 139:19-22 'Surely thou wilt slay the wicked, O God: depart from me therefore, ye bloody men. For they speak against thee wickedly, and thine enemies take thy name in vain. Do not I hate them, O Lord , that hate thee? and am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee?

I hate them with perfect hatred: I count them mine enemies. '

John 3:36 'He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.'

Whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them.

God hates all who do iniquity and Lord will abhor the bloody and deceitful man.
David hated them from the bottom of his heart.
God’s wrath remains on them because they reject Jesus.

God hates and abhor them. David hates them. 
Why can't I? Because you say so, I can't?
I am going to follow God's example. 

"Whether it be right in the sight of God to hearken unto you more than unto God, judge ye."
(Ac.4:19)

Edited April 8, 2019 by Ogner

[Ogner]

12 hours ago, Joulre2abba said:

I see though that you make a difference. But you haven't yet given a scripture to support your opinion.

If you look at the whole  chapter Matthew 5 you'll see that's not about we must forgive and love criminals.

In Matthew 5:20 Jesus say, "For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven."
In Matthew 5:21,22 Juses tightens the commandment "‘You shall not murder"
In Matthew 5:21,22 Juses tightens the requirements on gift
In Matthew 5:27,28 and 31,32 Juses tightens the commandment "‘You shall not commit adultery.’
In Matthew 5:33-37 Jesus tightens the requirements on oath.

Attention! Follow the logic.
In this verses 38-41 Jesus tightens the principle ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth."
Now "Two eyes for eye, and two teeth for tooth and coat for shirt.".

For example: Exodus 21:18,19, “If people quarrel and one person hits another with a stone or with their fist[d] and the victim does not die but is confined to bed, the one who struck the blow will not be held liable if the other can get up and walk around outside with a staff; however, the guilty party must pay the injured person for any loss of time and see that the victim is completely healed.
And
Exodus 21:22,23, “If people are fighting and hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely[e] but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman’s husband demands and the court allows. But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life,

‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth." this principles call for the victim's right to reparation encompassed adequate, effective and prompt reparation proportional to the gravity of the violation and the harm suffered.

But now "Two eyes for eye, and two teeth for tooth and coat for shirt." this principles call for the victim's right to reparation encompassed adequate, effective and prompt reparation disproportionate (in favour of a plaintiff) to the gravity of the violation and the harm suffered.

Do yoy think Jesus in Mat 5:40 say "If criminals wants to sue you and take your shirt, let him have your coat as well"?

It means,  criminals can sue a victim of a crime. And if criminals want to take his shirt, he must hand over them coat as well. And  a victim should be grateful them that they want to hurt

Do you think in Mat 5:25 Jesus say to a victim of a crime: "Come to terms quickly with criminals while you are on the way to court, or criminals may hand you over to the judge, and the judge to the guard, and you will be thrown into prison." ??

Do you think Jesus could taught us something like this?
Which kinds of enemies we must demonstrate love? Do you know whom Jesus is talking about?

Do you think Jesus could taught us how to love and forgive criminals, murderer, burglar, rapist... and other villains ?

[JTC]

If anyone is looking for reasons to hate others or become angry they can find lots of reasons. It's very easy to get angry or to hate but it isn't very Christian like. What's more God has commanded us not to do it. It's really very plain God said it's a no-no.

[Ogner]

4 hours ago, JTC said:

If anyone is looking for reasons to hate others or become angry they can find lots of reasons. It's very easy to get angry or to hate but it isn't very Christian like. What's more God has commanded us not to do it. It's really very plain God said it's a no-no.

But you haven't yet given a scripture to support your opinion.