Is it suicide tendencies or expressing reaction to pressure?

[Joulre2abba]

‎I've heard family members who aren't saved say something along these lines when in a moment of emotional upset. I'm not in any way criticizing or  minimizing their emotional state at that time, just stating a fact.

But it did prompt me to research regarding the issue.

In Rev.9:6 it says, ".. but to torment for five months; and their torment was like the torment of a scorpion when it stings a man. And in those days men will seek death and will not find it; they will long to die, and death flees from them."

I've always read it thinking that they seriously took action that would result in suicide but were by God kept from being successful.. but today I saw it differently.

See what you think about this.

I now see the possibility that they are at the point that Job was, 6:9 "I wish he would crush me. I wish he would reach out his hand and kill me."
* Jonah 4:3 "And now, O LORD, please take my life from me, for it is better for me to die than to live."

* the person was, in 1 kings 19:4  "..while he himself traveled on a day's journey into the wilderness. He sat down under a broom tree and prayed that he might die. "I have had enough, LORD," he said. "Take my life, for I am no better than my fathers".

* the person in Numbers was, 11:15 "If this is how You are going to treat me, please kill me right now--if I have found favor in Your eyes--and let me not see my own wretchedness."

[Note to whoever it may concern: If the link is not appropriate then please do remove it.. and I do apologize in advance for including it if it was wrong to do so]

This movie clip also expresses it..
Arnold Schwarzenegger was in Predator. "just kill me now!"

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If you'd like to post your comments .. I will not disagree with you at all.

Edited April 6, 2019 by Steve_S
Removed youtube link. Please post video links in the appropriate video forum.

[R. Hartono]

To live is more difficult than to die.

[Joulre2abba]

17 minutes ago, R. Hartono said:

To live is more difficult than to die.

Yes, we can all I'm sure, testify to the difficulties inherent in living.

[Joulre2abba]

17 minutes ago, pinacled said:

"They will seek death and not find it"

Yes. The wording gives the thought that they tried more than once to commit suicide but were unsuccessful.

[Willa]

Asking God to take us to be with Him is different than committing suicide.  The former is still leaving the time of our death in God's hands.  Suicide is taking that upon ourself and is still murder.  

Unbelievers usually just think they will cease to exist and are not mindful of hell.  They need to be told that they have the choice to go to hell by default or to be with God after they die.  What an opportunity to tell them of God's love!

[Joulre2abba]

9 minutes ago, Willa said:

Asking God to take us to be with Him is different than committing suicide.  

Yes. It does. Concerning my grandfather, he didn't (to my knowledge) let on what he had in mind. A person will decide to make it private, or decide to make it public.

Sometimes the wording that's used makes it hard to tell the difference if a person is speaking seriously or if they're metaphorically expressing the pressure they feel at the time. Like saying "I'll just shoot myself then." If you don't know the person well enough.. their demeanor, their general attitude from day to day.. then deciding what they mean makes it less worrying.

9 minutes ago, Willa said:

The former is still leaving the time of our death in God's hands.  Suicide is taking that upon ourself and is still murder.  

I suppose I hadn't thought of suicide as self-murder as opposed to killing oneself. By explanation, the commandment of God is "you shall not murder" although it's rendered "you shall not kill".

If God meant "not kill".. then God would have violated His own rules in requiring the Israelites to go into battle where people would die.

Murder is what Cain did to Abel. Abortion is murder.

I hope this is not thought of as disagreement, I did not intend it to be.

9 minutes ago, Willa said:

Unbelievers usually just think they will cease to exist and are not mindful of hell.  They need to be told that they have the choice to go to hell by default or to be with God after they die.  What an opportunity to tell them of God's love!

I've talked with unbelievers on many occasions. They know well about hell because they use the word to speak profanity or express the dislike of someone by telling them to "go to hell".

I've told them that they will go to hell by default if they do not accept God's love for them through the crucifixion of Jesus Christ for their sins.

To them, the word "default" was as if I spoke profanity.

Some nuts are harder to crack than others. Their squeaky wheel needs a lot of grease. James Taylor wrote a song that had that phrase in it, as he sang about showing the people that you love with with love.

I'm not saying that I always have, but it's a good sentiment.

[Willa]

They may not like it but it gives them something to think about.  It helps to be mindful that we are no better than the worst of them but for God's grace.  It is only Christ in us that makes us different, and He in us loves them intensely.  God demonstrated His love for us in that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us.

[Neighbor]

Paul and Timothy to the church at Philippi ( Philippians 1 through  3 ) might cover the range of thought regarding the question asked. In taking the entirety  of the letter and not extracting one or two sentences for highlight, because each building upon the foundation of another, I can only share a personal thought-

For those that know the certainty of hope that is found in the gospel of Jesus to die is of course personal gain. The bond-servant of Christ Jesus is  not  here for  personal gain in this condition of the flesh, instead each one is placed to serve God's good purposes, for His pleasure not one's own.  That some pleasure is derived by any of us during this serving God makes suffering  of it, with it's high moments of joy and deep hours of despair filled  real  and numerous pains, a glorious passage to a high privilege, that of being with God for eternity, time beynd time itself.

And for many if not most that know Christ Jesus to be God Lord and savior, there is joy even during the darkest moments of real pain, there is joy for the hope in Christ is known, by the indwelling Holy Spirit there is awareness to a certainty, and all is well with the soul of the saint in Christ Jesus. 

To the unaware, those that do not yet have the privilege of the indwelling  of God the Holy  Spirit, there may be a vast variance of strong delusion that may manifest in divers ways. One may fight against injury, illness, and death, another may embrace the three. None have the certainty, the security, that is  borne to the spirit and soul  that is the gift  from God the sacrifice made by Jesus  and known of by God's reveal through  God the Holy Spirit.

Without that  indwelling awareness that comforter there is only delusion. The delusional do most anything, and everything,  by their own will whether strong or weak. For there is little limit if any upon it, there being no restrainer of evil protecting the deluded individually, and only the general restraining of the assault on creation till our Lord Jesus has prepared a place for us, for honeymoon.

The church as a corporate body as well as the born again bond-servant individually is to be strong, as urged by Paul and lived out in Paul, knowing, "to live is Christ to die is gain"

[Joulre2abba]

13 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

The Gospel of Jesus CHRIST takes away the fear of death, and yet you have this wrong teaching that puts on people the fear of death...

Or that a believer in Jesus Christ has to live with the fear of death-Hell-. 

Everything that puts this fear on a believer is not from our Savior, who died and raised from the dead for this proposed, so we can live without the fear of death... 

With what you've said here it puts me in a position to defend myself.. perhaps somewhere in the O.P my words or manner of expression was unclear enough that you misunderstood what I was saying.

Or perhaps I misunderstand you, but if it's the former.. 

The O.P. is not "a teaching".. there is no intention of it being a teaching.. it never entered my mind for it to be one.

I presented it merely to examine what the collected verses are saying when put together. With the addition of a secular example (unfortunately it's an extreme one).

But, if I understand what you're saying, there is nothing in the verses or the secular example(s) that is "putting on people the fear of death".

What is "the fear of death"..? Does it mean to be afraid of death? Or, does it mean to seek the option of suicide..? The latter is a great concern for me.

Frankly it surprised me when I read that godly people in the old testament expressed death as a possible option. My thoughts are that I will not even allow for that option in my own life. Why give the devil an opportunity to commence to talking me into considering it as an option for the situation?

By contrast we have the apostle Paul who'd experienced a lot of difficult situations yet he called it all "light and momentary". I just can't see him requesting God to end the pain of life by compassionately snuffing out his life prematurely. I don't see that Paul was afraid of death.

Frankly for my part when anyone under pressure even expresses something like "I'll just shoot myself then, this situation is unchangeable so I just don't want to live anymore." And due to the fact I mentioned that my relative committed suicide.. I am in a continuing process to work out my own anxieties that anyone else would even say such things, or even as the verse in Revelation says.. that they pursue to die with a passionate gusto. I marvel in surprise at that, as well as it troubling my mind.

So you see, if I'm understanding your words, I want to assure you that I am as far away as anyone can be to even hint at putting on people the option of death.

Heb.2: 14-15 "Now since the children have flesh and blood, He too shared in their humanity, so that by His death He might destroy him who holds the power of death, that is, the devil, and free those who all their lives were held in bondage by their fear of death."

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Rom.8: 2-3 "For in Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life has set you free from the law of sin and death. For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful man, as an offering for sin. He thus condemned sin in the flesh."
Rom.8:1 "Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus."
Gal.5:1 "It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not be encumbered once more by a yoke of bondage."
Rom.8:15 "For you did not receive a spirit of bondage that returns you to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship, by whom we cry, "Abba! Father!"
2 Cor.3:17 "Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom."
2 Tm.1:7 "For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power, love, and a sound mind."

[dr3032]

This post has been edited due to poor word choice.

I don't know if I would define suicide as "the easy way out," because nobody wants to die. They have or are in the process of convincing themselves that they wish to go down to the grave, and they will profess their desire to perish, but they do not truly want to. Why else, before killing themselves, does a person with glasses remove them? True enough, it's extremely rare to find anyone who keeps their glasses on before they take their own life. It's because they do not wish to see their death, because they have to fight their conscience just to do the deed.

The rest of my original post has been redacted for the sake of sensitivity.

Edited April 10, 2019 by dr3032
I merely wished to prevent further misunderstanding