Calculations about the New Jerusalem

[Retrobyter]

4 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Retro,

Nice to chat with you again. Now what do you see from God`s word as His purpose for `this city?` That might aid it what it looks like.

regards, Marilyn.

Shalom, Marilyn.

Yes, it's always good to talk write with you, too.

The purpose of the city is simple: It's HOME! It's our "house" for all eternity, wherever we go and whatever we find to do, it will be the ONE place we can return and be greeted by family and friends, especially Yeshua` haMashiyach haMelekh Yisra'el. And, the whole New Earth is our "backyard!"

It's size should suggest so, but the New Jerusalem will be the "New York City" (without the violence and corruption) of the New Earth, and it will be its capitol city. It will be the center of God's and Yeshua`s reign. It is God's "Tent" ("Tabernacle") that He establishes upon the earth.

So, if you want to find home, look for the Red Tent on a lush green earth with the purest blue sky. You can't miss it!

[Dennis1209]

On 4/9/2019 at 10:59 PM, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, brothers and sisters.

As one might note from my avatar, I believe that the New Jerusalem shall be a pyramid shaped city. Despite personal attacks, I can give adequate Scriptural proof for such a belief.

There are preliminary steps to this conclusion:

1. One must come to realize that the New Jerusalem is not going to be a satellite when it comes within range of the earth, but will indeed land upon the New Earth.

2. One must understand that the New Earth is simply the Old Earth with a make-over, just as this current "Old" Earth is the make-over of the Antediluvian Earth, that is, the Earth before the Flood of Noach's day.

3. The sun and moon are not destroyed, as many believe, but are rather just UNNECESSARY for the New Jerusalem only. They will still be necessary and extant for the New Earth.

4. The New Jerusalem is NOT the pattern for the Holy of Holies in either the Tabernacle or the first Temple. A "pattern" is simply a BLUEPRINT (2D), a TEMPLATE (2D), or a MODELING (3D) of what is to be constructed. There's absolutely NO evidence that Moses saw the New Jerusalem, which at best would have still been "under construction."

5. The Great Pyramid of Giza, constructed YEARS before the other, smaller, inferior pyramids in Egypt, was a model of the New Jerusalem in its relationship to the earth. Ideally, it was said to have been planned with a golden capstone which was NEVER placed. Originally encased in white marble, it would have been a beacon to all in the area of what God would design. It is said to be called "Enoch's Pillar," and was either constructed by Enoch (Chanokh) prior to the Flood, or perhaps constructed by Shem after the Flood. (More about this later.)

6. According to Arab traditions (and Yishma'el - which means "man with God," so named by Abraham, WAS the father of those called "Arabs" today), Adam prophesied of two catastrophes to come: one of water (the Flood) and one of fire (the Fire, just prior to the Great White Throne Judgment). To warn people of these catastrophes to come, two structures were built - one of stone and the other of red brick. That way, if the brick structure was destroyed by the water, the stone structure would survive. The wisdom of the ancients was written upon the outside of each structure. From evidence still found on the Great Pyramid at the time Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie surveyed the structure, the Great Pyramid still had a red-pigmented paint applied to the white marble.

I concur with your thoughts and reasoning. There's only two geometric shapes that fit the description, rectangular and pyramid (triangle). The Egyptians worshiped everything from a dung beetle to Ra, and everything they built reflected that. Yet there is absolutely no Egyptian writings, pictures or recordings in or on the Great Pyramid (less modern graffiti). The entire pyramid is covered with fossilized evidence that it was once covered by the sea at one time. Advanced geometry, mathematics and pi shout out in its construction. Its precise physical location on the planet and directional orientation are strategic and not by coincidence.   

How did they do it? Our laws of physics show everything is decaying, including our DNA. The Bible tells us people lived centuries prior to the deluge, primarily probably due to the environment. The fossil record clearly shows plant, insect and animals were mammoth compared to after the flood. What about humans, were they also much larger and stronger? How much more knowledge I have now at 67 years old than when I was 10, what if I lived to be 850 years old, how much smarts and knowledge would I gain? They didn't have modern technology back then, but I believe people were much smarter and more intelligent back then. I believe just like the linear digression of life spans, so went knowledge and intelligence. Not to mention just like the Tabernacle, God gave instructions, dimensions and materials to use in its fabrication.

Biblical Hebrew names have meaning, tell a short story and a tiny bit about that individual.  The first ten generations of man from Adam to Noah, when strung into a sentence, tells an amazing story [Man (is) appointed mortal sorrow, (but) the Blessed God shall come down teaching (that) His death shall bring (the) despairing rest]. All the known chambers and passage ways can be associated with the biblical account and tell a story. I can't find it presently, but I recall Abraham may have referenced and referred to it by another name. I think the Great Pyramid depicts a soon to come story and the Revelation of Jesus Christ as the missing cap Stone. 

The Lord went to prepare a place for us (the New Jerusalem), like the cubit, depending on who's measurement you use, the New Jerusalem will be approximately 1,500 x 1,500 x 1,500 miles and there are many mansions (rooms). The New Jerusalem will have millions of rooms no doubt, probably a room for every individual who has ever been saved. I'm speculating, that part of the believers reward for service and faith to the Lord while in our flesh, the higher up our room will be? 

I've often wondered exactly 'why' we are getting rooms? We will have glorified perfect bodies, with no more death, pain, suffering or sadness; will we still need rest, privacy, etc.? I probably have an over active imagination...

[Marilyn C]

12 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Marilyn.

Yes, it's always good to talk write with you, too.

The purpose of the city is simple: It's HOME! It's our "house" for all eternity, wherever we go and whatever we find to do, it will be the ONE place we can return and be greeted by family and friends, especially Yeshua` haMashiyach haMelekh Yisra'el. And, the whole New Earth is our "backyard!"

It's size should suggest so, but the New Jerusalem will be the "New York City" (without the violence and corruption) of the New Earth, and it will be its capitol city. It will be the center of God's and Yeshua`s reign. It is God's "Tent" ("Tabernacle") that He establishes upon the earth.

So, if you want to find home, look for the Red Tent on a lush green earth with the purest blue sky. You can't miss it!

Hi Retro,

So...where in God`s word do you find scriptures that tell us, the Body of Christ that we will be in the `city` in eternity?

Marilyn.

 

[Marilyn C]

16 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

 

I've often wondered exactly 'why' we are getting rooms? We will have glorified perfect bodies, with no more death, pain, suffering or sadness; will we still need rest, privacy, etc.? I probably have an over active imagination...

Hi Dennis,

Now I think that is a very, very good question. And you do not have an over active imagination. Why? Yes `why` do we need rooms? to sleep, no, to prepare food, no, to go to the bathroom, certainly not, to put all our bits and pieces, no...etc etc. On earth we spend most of our time looking after our bodies, working to get money for food, drink, shelter, clothes etc, whereas our bodies in glory will be immortal and incorruptible. Our food is of the Lord, spiritual food that nourishes the spirit.

`Eye has not seen nor ear heard what God has prepared for those who love him...`

All this earthly talk is just that - someone`s imaginings, whereas to speak of glory is beyond our words and thoughts. the streets of gold and the precious stones, all these are corruptible, and thus they are symbols of glories - gold - faith, precious stones - description of the Lord, (high priest`s breastplate of precious stones) etc etc.

Hope that helps somewhat. You were on the right track and the Holy Spirit gave you that thought to question `why?`

regards, Marilyn.

 

[Retrobyter]

5 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

I concur with your thoughts and reasoning. There's only two geometric shapes that fit the description, rectangular and pyramid (triangle). The Egyptians worshiped everything from a dung beetle to Ra, and everything they built reflected that. Yet there is absolutely no Egyptian writings, pictures or recordings in or on the Great Pyramid (less modern graffiti). The entire pyramid is covered with fossilized evidence that it was once covered by the sea at one time. Advanced geometry, mathematics and pi shout out in its construction. Its precise physical location on the planet and directional orientation are strategic and not by coincidence.   

How did they do it? Our laws of physics show everything is decaying, including our DNA. The Bible tells us people lived centuries prior to the deluge, primarily probably due to the environment. The fossil record clearly shows plant, insect and animals were mammoth compared to after the flood. What about humans, were they also much larger and stronger? How much more knowledge I have now at 67 years old than when I was 10, what if I lived to be 850 years old, how much smarts and knowledge would I gain? They didn't have modern technology back then, but I believe people were much smarter and more intelligent back then. I believe just like the linear digression of life spans, so went knowledge and intelligence. Not to mention just like the Tabernacle, God gave instructions, dimensions and materials to use in its fabrication.

Biblical Hebrew names have meaning, tell a short story and a tiny bit about that individual.  The first ten generations of man from Adam to Noah, when strung into a sentence, tells an amazing story [Man (is) appointed mortal sorrow, (but) the Blessed God shall come down teaching (that) His death shall bring (the) despairing rest]. All the known chambers and passage ways can be associated with the biblical account and tell a story. I can't find it presently, but I recall Abraham may have referenced and referred to it by another name. I think the Great Pyramid depicts a soon to come story and the Revelation of Jesus Christ as the missing cap Stone. 

The Lord went to prepare a place for us (the New Jerusalem), like the cubit, depending on who's measurement you use, the New Jerusalem will be approximately 1,500 x 1,500 x 1,500 miles and there are many mansions (rooms). The New Jerusalem will have millions of rooms no doubt, probably a room for every individual who has ever been saved. I'm speculating, that part of the believers reward for service and faith to the Lord while in our flesh, the higher up our room will be? 

I've often wondered exactly 'why' we are getting rooms? We will have glorified perfect bodies, with no more death, pain, suffering or sadness; will we still need rest, privacy, etc.? I probably have an over active imagination...

Shalom, Dennis1209.

Well, "glorified" means that our bodies will GLOW. "Perfect" means that our bodies will be MATURE as they were MEANT to be. And, we ARE "our bodies." 

Something else to think about: Adam lived until he was 930 years old; Metushelach ("Methusaleh") lived until he was 969 years old. Yet, BOTH of them lived FAR LESS than they were meant to live! They should have lived FOREVER, and they WOULD have done so had sin never entered the picture!

Also, we SHALL take a weekly rest for we shall ALL observe the Shabbat ("Sabbath"), whether we "need" it or not:

Isaiah 66:22-23 (KJV)

22 "For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me," saith the LORD, "so shall your seed and your name remain. 23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me," saith the LORD.

And, THIS kind of rest we definitely NEED!

One more thing: You seem to think that these "rooms" are compartments. The amount of building space in such a 3-D city is ENORMOUS! The translators weren't far off when they used the word "mansions." There will be room and more for parks, the river that flows throughout the city from the pinnacle where the Throne is located to the bottom foundation and out the gates of the city to the New Earth, and all sorts of "shops" and "businesses" where we will freely give our talents to others and where they shall do the same, a sort of "reverse bartering" system.

God is NOT "static!" He is a DYNAMIC God, that is, He is always active in His Creation! He has given us all the capacity to excel in whatever field we have the greatest interest, and He has given us the gifts of IMAGINATION, INNOVATION, and INVENTION. Why shouldn't He ENCOURAGE this throughout eternity? I believe that He will!

EMBRACE that "overactive imagination!" Just keep it within the confines of God's written Word!

[Retrobyter]

1 minute ago, Retrobyter said:

Isaiah 66:22-23 (KJV)

22 "For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me," saith the LORD, "so shall your seed and your name remain. 23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me," saith the LORD.

 

6 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Retro,

So...where in God`s word do you find scriptures that tell us, the Body of Christ that we will be in the `city` in eternity?

Marilyn.

 

Shabbat shalom, Marilyn.

These verses give you your answer, as well. The FIRST thing you must realize is that we shall indeed be FLESH again! Not, "flesh and blood" as Paul in 1 Corinthians 15 says, but "flesh and bones" as the Messiah Yeshua` HIMSELF tells us in Luke 24.

1 Corinthians 15:50-53 (KJV)

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

Luke 24: (KJV)

36 And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them,

"Peace be unto you."

37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit. 38And he said unto them,

"Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts? 39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have."

40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet. 41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them,

"Have ye here any meat?"

42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb. 43 And he took it, and did eat before them.

So, then whatever one may THINK one means by "spiritual body" isn't what it is! "Spiritual" is NOT the opposite of "natural" or of "carnal" or of "fleshly!" Paul explains what he meant by quoting Genesis 2:7:

1 Corinthians 15:42-49 (KJV)

42 So also is the resurrection of the dead.

It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory:
it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 
44 It is sown a natural body (Greek: sooma psuchikon); it is raised a spiritual body (Greek: sooma pneumatikon).

There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45 And so it is written,

"The first man Adam was made a living soul";

the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. 46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 47 The first man is of the earth, earthy (Greek: ek gees choikos = "out of-ground soil-like"): the second man is the Lord from heaven (Greek: ex ouranou = "out of-sky"). 48 As is the earthy (Greek: hoios ho choikos = "like the soil-like [one]" , such are they also that are earthy (Greek: toioutoi kai hoi choikoi = "such-as-this also the soil-like [ones]"): and as is the heavenly (Greek: kai hoios ho epouranios = "and like the [one]-from-above-the-sky"), such are they also that are heavenly (Greek: toioutoi kai hoi epouranioi = "such-as-this also the [ones]-from-above-the-sky"). 49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy (Greek: kai kathos eforesamen teen eikona tou choikou = "and according-as we-have-worn the likeness of-the soil-like [one]"), we shall also bear the image of the heavenly (Greek: foresomen kai teen eikona tou epouraniou = "we-shall-wear the likeness of-the [one]-from-above-the-sky").

Paul used these two words, "psuchikos" and "pneumatikos," in 1 Corinthians 15:44, derived from the two words, "psuchee" and "pneuma," translated as "soul" and "spirit," respectively. That they were translated as "natural" and "spiritual" is unfortunate because they don't do the words justice. Look at the simple fact of which one is the noun and which is the adjective! It's the adjective that modifies the noun, not the reverse!

By quoting from Genesis 2:7, Paul has brought the Hebrew in for us, especially mentioning that "the (first) man" was the Hebrew word "haa'Aadaam," transliterated into Greek and then into English as "Adam."

As mentioned before in other places, the wording of Genesis 2:7 gives us a DIFFERENT view of what a "soul" is.

Genesis 2:7 (KJV)

7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Notice that it doesn't say, "God formed the body of the man"; it says, "God formed man!" "God formed man (Hebrew: haa'Aadaam = "the-Red-[man]") from the dust/soil (Hebrew: `aafaar = "of-dry-soil") of the ground (Hebrew: min haa'adaamaah = "from the-red-[ground]")." When God "breathed into his nostrils the breath of life," the Hebrew is "vayipah b'apaayoh nishmat chayiym" meaning "and-he-breathed/blew in-his-nostrils a-puff of-living-[things]," and the "man became a living soul" is "vayhiy haa'Aadaam nefesh chayaah" in Hebrew, meaning "and-became the-Red-[man] an-air-breather living."

To support this interpretation, here's what Strong's Hebrew Dictionary says:

5315 nefesh (neh'-fesh). From naafash; properly, a breathing creature, i.e. Animal of (abstractly) vitality; used very widely in a literal, accommodated or figurative sense (bodily or mental)
-- any, appetite, beast, body, breath, creature, X dead(-ly), desire, X (dis-)contented, X fish, ghost, + greedy, he, heart(-y), (hath, X jeopardy of) life (X in jeopardy), lust, man, me, mind, mortally, one, own, person, pleasure, (her-, him-, my-, thy-)self, them (your)-selves, + slay, soul, + tablet, they, thing, (X she) will, X would have it.

5314 naafash (naw-fash'). A primitive root; to breathe; passively, to be breathed upon, i.e. (figuratively) refreshed (as if by a current of air)
-- (be) refresh selves (-ed).

Paul relates this word, "nefesh," to the Greek word "psuchee," and made it into the adjective, "psuchikos" to describe the "body": "sooma psuchikon." Thus, it means "a body air-breathing" or "an air-breathing body!" So, by contrast what would "sooma pneumatikon" mean?

Well, "pneuma" is the Greek word that translates the Hebrew word "ruwach," which primarily means "wind," although it is often translated as "spirit."

7307 ruwach (roo'-akh). From ruwach; wind; by resemblance breath, i.e. A sensible (or even violent) exhalation; figuratively, life, anger, unsubstantiality; by extension, a region of the sky; by resemblance spirit, but only of a rational being (including its expression and functions)
-- air, anger, blast, breath, X cool, courage, mind, X quarter, X side, spirit((-ual)), tempest, X vain, ((whirl-))wind(-y).

7306 ruwach (roo-akh'). A primitive root; properly, to blow, i.e. Breathe; only (literally) to smell or (by implication, perceive (figuratively, to anticipate, enjoy)
-- accept, smell, X touch, make of quick understanding.

Paul translated this word "ruwach" (the noun) as "pneuma" in Greek, and then made the adjective form, "pneumatikos" to describe the body of the Lord: "sooma pneumatikon." Thus, "sooma pneumatikon" means "a body air-blowing" or "an air-blowing body!" It's a body capable of blowing like the wind, not just breathing! So, "a spiritual body," as it has been translated, is just a MUCH STRONGER PHYSICAL BODY, capable of blowing like the wind!

So, don't be so aversely affected by the fact that we, as you so fondly put it, "the Body of Christ" or the "Body of the Messiah," shall be IN THE CITY where the Throne of God and of the Lamb are! Wouldn't the "Body of the Messiah" be at least close to the Messiah who is literally the RISEN BODY that died for us? How else shall we "always be with the Lord?" (1 Thess. 4:17.) The description of the New Jerusalem continues into chapter 22:

Revelation 22:1-5 (KJV)

1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb. 2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner offruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. 3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him: 4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads. 5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

Is His name "in your forehead?" Of course it is, I believe. Therefore, you are among those "servants" that "shall serve Him," and THAT puts you in the New Jerusalem "for ever and ever."

[Marilyn C]

59 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

 

So, don't be so aversely affected by the fact that we, as you so fondly put it, "the Body of Christ" or the "Body of the Messiah," shall be IN THE CITY where the Throne of God and of the Lamb are! Wouldn't the "Body of the Messiah" be at least close to the Messiah who is literally the RISEN BODY that died for us? How else shall we "always be with the Lord?" (1 Thess. 4:17.) The description of the New Jerusalem continues into chapter 22:

Revelation 22:1-5 (KJV)

1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb. 2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner offruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. 3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him: 4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads. 5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

Is His name "in your forehead?" Of course it is, I believe. Therefore, you are among those "servants" that "shall serve Him," and THAT puts you in the New Jerusalem "for ever and ever."

Hi Retro,

A bit of an overkill there bro. Anyway you have not proven by scripture, that we are in the city. Of course God the Father & the Son and Holy Spirit`s authority and power (throne) are there, but that in NOT the seat of their authority. Remember it comes out of heaven FROM God. God is already everywhere, omnipresent, so He does NOT move as such but will dwell in a more personal way through Christ`s rulership that is in the city through those mentioned in scripture.

Also to `be with the Lord` does not mean following Him around the universe etc like a comet trail!!!! It means OBEYING Him. People are in different rulership positions, serving under Christ, with Him, as in obeying Him.

I am preparing a thread on `Who is in the `City,` and you may like to respond there.

regards, Marilyn.

BTW Do you remember that song by Carly Simon, (I think), "Your so vain, I bet you think this song is about you, don`t you"` Well Christians can think like that, imagining that all God`s word is all about them!!! Well it`s not, it`s all about our Lord and Him being the pre-eminent one. His rulership in every realm, and not just the lower realm where the `city` comes down to.

 

[Dennis1209]

7 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Dennis1209.

Well, "glorified" means that our bodies will GLOW. "Perfect" means that our bodies will be MATURE as they were MEANT to be. And, we ARE "our bodies." 

Something else to think about: Adam lived until he was 930 years old; Metushelach ("Methusaleh") lived until he was 969 years old. Yet, BOTH of them lived FAR LESS than they were meant to live! They should have lived FOREVER, and they WOULD have done so had sin never entered the picture!

Also, we SHALL take a weekly rest for we shall ALL observe the Shabbat ("Sabbath"), whether we "need" it or not:

Isaiah 66:22-23 (KJV)

22 "For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me," saith the LORD, "so shall your seed and your name remain. 23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me," saith the LORD.

And, THIS kind of rest we definitely NEED!

One more thing: You seem to think that these "rooms" are compartments. The amount of building space in such a 3-D city is ENORMOUS! The translators weren't far off when they used the word "mansions." There will be room and more for parks, the river that flows throughout the city from the pinnacle where the Throne is located to the bottom foundation and out the gates of the city to the New Earth, and all sorts of "shops" and "businesses" where we will freely give our talents to others and where they shall do the same, a sort of "reverse bartering" system.

God is NOT "static!" He is a DYNAMIC God, that is, He is always active in His Creation! He has given us all the capacity to excel in whatever field we have the greatest interest, and He has given us the gifts of IMAGINATION, INNOVATION, and INVENTION. Why shouldn't He ENCOURAGE this throughout eternity? I believe that He will!

EMBRACE that "overactive imagination!" Just keep it within the confines of God's written Word!

Our hermeneutics and thoughts seem to be pretty much in alignment. I agree that when we are raptured / resurrected and go into eternity, everything will be restored to the way God intended it to be from the beginning with Adam. Exception being; we will be like the angel's, we will not marry or be given in marriage, we are the bride of Christ. 

As far as 'glorification' I tend to agree. I suspect Adam & Eve were glorified, and that 'glow or light' was their clothing. When they fell, I suspect that covering (glorification) was removed and they realized they were naked and it was a shame to them. Ever wonder about why they were ashamed of their reproductive parts and wanted to hide / cover them? It was their decision (brain) and their 'mouth' that ate the forbidden. Why women were from there on cursed and pained with childbearing? That shame and punishment seems to be sexual in nature to me? 

I agree, the New Jerusalem is going to be enormous and beautiful beyond human description, with much to do and see. Mansions (Gr. mone) - residence, abode, mansion).  John 14:2 (KJV) In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. Based on the size, shape, description of the New Jerusalem and what Jesus said; I get the sense it's living quarters, a community something possibly comparable to an assisted living complex? Worship and rest on the Sabbath; leads me to think where and how would we rest? Would rest be defined as just not working and / or, resting our glorified physical bodies, rest as in sleep? I don't recall anything in the Bible that stated Adam & Eve slept or had a dream do you?

I'm sure I'm not the only one since we've received the written Word to have pondered these things. Anyway, very interesting conversation. 

[Retrobyter]

4 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Retro,

A bit of an overkill there bro. Anyway you have not proven by scripture, that we are in the city. Of course God the Father & the Son and Holy Spirit`s authority and power (throne) are there, but that in NOT the seat of their authority. Remember it comes out of heaven FROM God. God is already everywhere, omnipresent, so He does NOT move as such but will dwell in a more personal way through Christ`s rulership that is in the city through those mentioned in scripture.

Also to `be with the Lord` does not mean following Him around the universe etc like a comet trail!!!! It means OBEYING Him. People are in different rulership positions, serving under Christ, with Him, as in obeying Him.

I am preparing a thread on `Who is in the `City,` and you may like to respond there.

regards, Marilyn.

BTW Do you remember that song by Carly Simon, (I think), "Your so vain, I bet you think this song is about you, don`t you"` Well Christians can think like that, imagining that all God`s word is all about them!!! Well it`s not, it`s all about our Lord and Him being the pre-eminent one. His rulership in every realm, and not just the lower realm where the `city` comes down to.

 

Shabbat shalom, Marilyn.

Well, I'm truly sorry you feel that way. What I was trying to do (in my verbosity) was to show you that, just like Adam, we, too, are DESIGNED and BUILT BY GOD to live upon the earth, an earth created just for us! No matter how strong we become, as supermen and supergirls (or superwomen, if you prefer), our HOME PLANET is HERE, ON THIS EARTH (given its make-over, of course). Even in the Resurrection, when we are resurrected (which to most means "when we have our bodies resurrected"), we, "our new bodies," are STILL PHYSICAL AIR-BREATHERS ("SOULS") and MORE. We become "AIR-BLASTERS," given the power even to resurrect others!

See, even when we don't think about it directly, we are STILL influenced and affected (and I believe that is "adversely affected") by the nonsense "1st heaven = of clouds, 2nd heaven = of stars, 3rd heaven = God's abode."

We get this two-dimensional picture in our heads (augmented by the artwork of the Middle Ages),

Heaven
Stars
Earth and its atmosphere

When what we REALLY should have is a physical, three-dimensional picture of ...

Above the sky (where the New Jerusalem is currently being built) where stars are
heaven = the sky, the atmophere of this earth
earth = the ground, the planet on which we live

Talk about a "third heaven" involves the FOURTH dimension, TIME:

First heaven = the sky before the global Flood
Second heaven = the sky after the global Flood and before the global Fire yet to come
Third heaven = the sky after the global Fire (surrounding the New Earth)

Yeshua` haMashiyach (Jesus the Messiah or the "Christ"), the Son of God, is also now limited by His body. How do we know this? It's because He "went away" and "must return":

John 14:1-3 (KJV)

1 "Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. 2In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also." 

Acts 1:9-11 (KJV)

9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. 10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven (the sky) as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; 11 Which also said,

"Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven (the sky)? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven (the sky), shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven (the sky)."

And, just to be clear, these disciples weren't gazing into some PLACE called "Heaven"; they were gazing up into the SKY! They watched him rise, as we do rockets from Cape Canaveral, until they couldn't see Him any longer when He went behind a cloud!

Anyway, that's enough for now.

[Marilyn C]

5 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

 

 

9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. 10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven (the sky) as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; 11 Which also said,

"Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven (the sky)? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven (the sky), shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven (the sky)."

And, just to be clear, these disciples weren't gazing into some PLACE called "Heaven"; they were gazing up into the SKY! They watched him rise, as we do rockets from Cape Canaveral, until they couldn't see Him any longer when He went behind a cloud!

Anyway, that's enough for now.

Hi Retro,

So...where is Jesus now?

Marilyn.