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Calculations about the New Jerusalem


Retrobyter

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3 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Marilyn.

And, the Master Yeshua` (which is what "Lord Jesus" means) didn't have Jewish History?! Your history started "before the world began," because Paul wrote...

Titus 1:1-4 (KJV)

1 Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness; 2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began; 3 But hath in due times manifested his word through preaching, which is committed unto me according to the commandment of God our Saviour;

 

Hi Retro,

Yes, the Lord was before the world began, for it was through Him that the world was made. (Heb. 1: 2) He was (& still is) King of glory, King of heaven, & King of the ages. We know that when the Lord was manifest on earth He came -

1. As a Man. This was to redeem all mankind, (all who receive Him).

2. As a Jew from the nation of Israel. This was to receive the kingship over Judah and Israel, and thus over the nations of the world.

 

So, the Lord Jesus as Head of the Body, is the KingPriest of a whole order of kingpriests. These 2 offices were never put together in Israel.

And the Lord Jesus as King over Israel receives the throne of David. He will delegate a man named David to rule in the millennium and with him some priests. (Ez. 37: 24, 44: 15)

The Lord Jesus has many titles, many offices, and we are just part of His heritage, as is Israel.

Marilyn.

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Well, everyone has thrown in their 2 cents worth, so I'm throwing in a nickel :D

If one does some study on the Great Pyramid of Egypt by Christian scholars and archaeologist's, one might reason the New Jerusalem could be pyramid shape. Much evidence suggests the Great Pyramid predates Noah's flood. The Egyptians worshiped everything from a dung beetle to Ra, and everything "they" built reflected that with pride, paintings and hieroglyphics. Yet not one claim of ownership is written inside or out of the pyramid. 

Everything laid out inside of the pyramid correlates by design with biblical chambers and patterns. We see for the first time in history in its construction, pi. We see exact geographical and celestial alignments; and a precise exact geographical position on earth that was beyond human knowledge back then. The missing cap stone is also so very suggestive of Christ. There are so many things that point to this pyramid as being a monument to something, I could write a book; but someone already has and I read it  :whistling:

A lot of labor and precision went into this work, and for what purpose? I've heard everything from it was an electric generator to a kings tomb. There's biblical evidence that 'suggests' the Great Pyramid may have been seen by Abraham himself? 

Assuming the pyramid predates the flood, whom built it and why? Two opposing views of whom built this pyramid are "the Nephilim" or "Enoch". There's non canonical books that point to Enoch as the builder of the Great Pyramid. I believe humanity is looking at all the other failed and ruinous pyramids backwards; claiming they were early attempts at pyramid building that finally lead up to the successful Great one. I believe the failed ones we post attempts long after the Great Pyramid was built, trying to copy it.  

At any rate, no one has been able to solve this mystery of who, why or when. Best evidence is it's a monument to someone or something or both. This structure seems to be telling a story?

Okay, give me three cents back...

 

 

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16 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Retro,

Yes, the Lord was before the world began, for it was through Him that the world was made. (Heb. 1: 2) He was (& still is) King of glory, King of heaven, & King of the ages. We know that when the Lord was manifest on earth He came -

1. As a Man. This was to redeem all mankind, (all who receive Him).

2. As a Jew from the nation of Israel. This was to receive the kingship over Judah and Israel, and thus over the nations of the world.

 

So, the Lord Jesus as Head of the Body, is the KingPriest of a whole order of kingpriests. These 2 offices were never put together in Israel.

And the Lord Jesus as King over Israel receives the throne of David. He will delegate a man named David to rule in the millennium and with him some priests. (Ez. 37: 24, 44: 15)

The Lord Jesus has many titles, many offices, and we are just part of His heritage, as is Israel.

Marilyn.

Shalom, Marilyn.

Hmmmm.... I'm hearing MUCH MORE theological rhetoric than Scripture.

For instance, where do you get the nonsensical titles "King of glory, King of heaven, & King of the ages," ESPECIALLY for Yeshua` the Son of God?

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47 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Marilyn.

Hmmmm.... I'm hearing MUCH MORE theological rhetoric than Scripture.

For instance, where do you get the nonsensical titles "King of glory, King of heaven, & King of the ages," ESPECIALLY for Yeshua` the Son of God?

Hi Retro,

You are doing well with such short posts. Now thank you very much for asking about the scriptures for those titles of the Lord.

 

The Lord Jesus Christ is King over many realms.

King of Glory. (Ps. 24: 7)

King of heaven. (Dan. 4: 37)

King of the Ages. (1 Tim. 1: 17)

King of Righteousness. (Heb. 7: 1 – 3)

King of Kings. (Rev. 19: 12)

King of Israel. (John 1 : 49)

King of the Jews. (Matt. 2: 2)

King of the Nations. (Rev. 15: 3)

 

`Who is this King of Glory? The Lord of hosts, He is the King of glory.` (Ps. 24: 10)

`Now I, Nebuchadnezzar, praise and honour  the King of heaven.` (Dan. 4: 37)

`Now to the King eternal,  (of the ages) immortal, invisible, to God who alone is wise...` (1 Tim. 1: 17)

 

Marilyn.

(BTW Retro, wouldn`t it be better to ask the person for the scriptures without the `put down` NONSENSICAL TITLES, and phrases like `more theological rhetoric?` )

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On 4/24/2019 at 6:10 PM, Marilyn C said:

Hi Retro,

You are doing well with such short posts. Now thank you very much for asking about the scriptures for those titles of the Lord.

 

The Lord Jesus Christ is King over many realms.

King of Glory. (Ps. 24: 7)

Shalom, Marilyn.

I believe that phrases and words must be understood before they can be used as titles or labels.

Psalm 24:1-10 (KJV)

1 {A Psalm of David.}

The earth is the LORD'S, and the fulness thereof; the world, and they that dwell therein.
2 For he hath founded it upon the seas, and established it upon the floods.
3 Who shall ascend into the hill of the LORD? or who shall stand in his holy place?
4 He that hath clean hands, and a pure heart; who hath not lifted up his soul unto vanity, nor sworn deceitfully.
5 He shall receive the blessing from the LORD, and righteousness from the God of his salvation.
6 This is the generation of them that seek him, that seek thy face, O Jacob. Selah.

7 Lift up your heads, O ye gates; and be ye lift up, ye everlasting doors; and the King of glory shall come in.
8 Who is this King of glory? The LORD strong and mighty, the LORD mighty in battle.
9 Lift up your heads, O ye gates; even lift them up, ye everlasting doors; and the King of glory shall come in.
10 Who is this King of glory? The LORD of hosts, he is the King of glory. Selah.

Here's the Hebrew (transliterated):

Tehiyl 24:1-10 (JPS Hebrew-English Tanakh)

1 L-Daavid mizmowr

LaaYHWH haa’aarets uwmlow’aah teeVeel vyoshVeey baah:
2 Kiy-huw’ `al-yamiym ycaadaah v`al-nhaarowt ykhownnehaa:
3 Miy-ya`aleh bhar-YHWH? Uwmiy-yaaquwm bimqowm qaadshow:
4 Nqiy kapayim uwVar-leeVaaV asher | lo’ naasaa’ lashaw’ nafshiy vlo’ nishba` lmirmaah:
5 Yisaa’ braakhaah mee’eet YHWH uwtsdaaqaah mee’Eeloheey yish`ow:
6 Zeh dowr dorshow dorshaayow mVaqsheey paaneeykhaa Ya`aqoV. Caalaah:

7 S’uw sh`aariym | raa’sheeykhem vhinaas’uw pitcheey `owlaam vyaaVow’ Melekh haKaaVowd:
8 Miy zeh Melekh haKaaVowd? YHWH `izuwz vgibowr; YHWH gibowr milchaamaah:
9 S’uw sh`aariym | raa’sheeykhem uws’uw pitcheey`owlaam vyaaVo’ Melekh haKaaVowd:
10 Miy huw’ zeh Melekh haKaaVowd? YHWH tsVaa’owt huw’ Melekh haKaaVowd. Caalaah:

"HaKaaVowd" is NOT a PLACE!!! It's a DESCRIPTION! It literally means "the Weighty King!"

Also, notice that this is the SAME "YHWH" to Whom Yeshua` prayed, His FATHER! You absolutely MUST learn to keep the PERSONS of the so-called "Trinity" (actually, it should be called the "Tri-Unity") SEPARATE, for they ARE SEPARATE enough for Yeshua` to TALK to His Father! This doctrine of the "Trinity" is DANGEROUS! It treads on ground it was never meant to tread!

Consequently, you don't know how to separate the two!

Of late, I've been trying when quoting Scripture to show when it is God, the Father of Yeshua`, talking (lettering in purple) and when it is the Son of God, Yeshua`, talking (lettering in red).

(I try to always keep the narration within Bible quotations in green lettering, the opposite color of red. Quotations of humans and messengers [angels] I have been putting in blue lettering. I've also been adding the commas and quotation marks when it is clear who is saying what.)

The bottom line is this: This quotation of David's Psalm is not about Yeshua`; it's about GOD, His FATHER!

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King of heaven. (Dan. 4: 37)

The phrase here in Aramaic (Syrian that was closely akin to Hebrew, used as a common tongue between Babylon and the Land of Israel, was "l-Melekh shmayaah," meaning "to-King of-sky".

4430 melekh (meh'-lek). (Aramaic) corresponding to melekh; a king
-- king, royal.

4428 melekh (meh'-lekh). From maalakh; a king
-- king, royal.

4427 maalakh (maw-lak'). A primitive root; to reign; inceptively, to ascend the throne; causatively, to induct into royalty; hence (by implication) to take counsel
-- consult, X indeed, be (make, set a, set up) king, be (make) queen, (begin to, make to) reign(-ing), rule, X surely.

8065 shaamayin (shaw-mah'-yin). (Aramaic) corresponding to shaamayim 
-- heaven.

8064 shaamayim (shaw-mah'-yim). Dual of an unused singular shaameh {shaw-meh'}; from an unused root meaning to be lofty; the sky (as aloft; the dual perhaps alluding to the visible arch in which the clouds move, as well as to the higher ether where the celestial bodies revolve)
-- air, X astrologer, heaven(-s).

Therefore, this is what Nebuchadnezzar called Daniel's God, literally, the "high God." Again, this is the same God to Whom Daniel and Yeshua` prayed, Yeshua`s FATHER.

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King of the Ages. (1 Tim. 1: 17)

1 Timothy 1:12-17 (KJV)

12 And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry; 13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. 14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus. 15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. 16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting. 17 Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

The Greek of verse 17 is...

Pros Timotheon A 1:17 (UBS Greek New Testament)

17 To de basilei toon aioonoon afthartoo aoratoo monoo Theoo timee kai doxa eis tous aioonas toon aioonoon. Ameen.

17 To = 17 To-the
de = but
basilei = king
toon = of-the
aioonoon = ages
afthartoo = immortal
aoratoo = invisible
monoo = only
Theoo = God
timee = honor
kai = and
doxa = glory/brightness
eis = into
tous = the
aioonas = ages
toon = of-the
aioonoon. = ages.
Ameen. = Hebrew word meaning "Truth."

Again, for this sentence, Paul is talking about Yeshua`s FATHERGOD, not Yeshua`! "De" is usually translated as "but" (instead of "now") while "kai" is usually translated as "and" or "also."  While "kai" is used more for CONJUNCTION, "de" is mostly used for a way of CONTRAST.

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King of Righteousness. (Heb. 7: 1 – 3)

Hebrews 7:1-3 (KJV)

1 For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him; 2 To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness (Hebrew meaning of "Malkhiy-tsedeq," which actually means "MY king of righteousness"), and after that also King of Salem (Hebrew: Melekh Shaaleem), which is, King of peace; 3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.

This is in reference to ...

Genesis 14:17-24 (KJV)

17 And the king of Sodom went out to meet him after his return from the slaughter of Chedorlaomer, and of the kings that were with him, at the valley of Shaveh, which is the king's dale. 18 And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God.

19 And he blessed him, and said,

"Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth: 20 And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand."

And he (Abram) gave him (Melchizedek or Malkhiy-Tsedeq) tithes of all.

21 And the king of Sodom said unto Abram,

"Give me the persons, and take the goods to thyself."

22 And Abram said to the king of Sodom, 

"I have lift up mine hand unto the LORD, the most high God, the possessor of heaven and earth, 23 That I will not take from a thread even to a shoelatchet, and that I will not take any thing that is thine, lest thou shouldest say, 'I have made Abram rich': 24 Save only that which the young men have eaten, and the portion of the men which went with me, Aner, Eshcol, and Mamre; let them take their portion."

My point is this: Take what the author of Hebrews said CAREFULLY! DISCERN who is who in this passage, ESPECIALLY in light of the Genesis account! This title is a good one, but it was NOT applied to Yeshua`!

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King of Kings. (Rev. 19: 12)

I'll agree on this one; however, understand that this title means "world emperor." Others were so called in the Tanakh (the "Old Testament"):

Ezra 7:11-13 (KJV)

11 Now this is the copy of the letter that the king Artaxerxes gave unto Ezra the priest, the scribe, even a scribe of the words of the commandments of the LORD, and of his statutes to Israel. 

12 "Artaxerxes, king of kings, unto Ezra the priest, a scribe of the law of the God of heaven, perfect peace, and at such a time. 13 I make a decree, that all they of the people of Israel, and of his priests and Levites, in my realm, which are minded of their own freewill to go up to Jerusalem, go with thee. ..."

and

Ezekiel 26:7 (KJV)

7 For thus saith the Lord GOD;

"Behold, I will bring upon Tyrus Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon, a king of kings, from the north, with horses, and with chariots, and with horsemen, and companies, and much people. ..."

BOTH of these men were LITERALLY kings over other kings! That's why they are so described! And, that's how Yeshua` will reign as well!

I'll stop here tonight, but I've more to say. You wish an apology from me, and perhaps I was too brusque in how I said it, but quite frankly, NONE of these titles but this last apply to Yeshua`! They're good titles, but they are of GOD His FATHER, not Him!

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1 hour ago, Retrobyter said:

 

I'll stop here tonight, but I've more to say. You wish an apology from me, and perhaps I was too brusque in how I said it, but quite frankly, NONE of these titles but this last apply to Yeshua`! They're good titles, but they are of GOD His FATHER, not Him!

Hi Retro,

You seem to forget -

Father and Son in Godhead reveal -

1.the express image of personality.

`....spoken to us by His Son,......who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person..` (Heb. 2 & 3)

2.the exact substance of entity in mind, will and heart,

`I and my Father are one.` (John 10: 30)

3.and the entire oneness of Being in regards to wisdom, work and whereabouts, which are expressed by the use of the words, omniscience, omnipotence and omnipresence.

`....as you, Father, are in me, and I in you;....` (John 17: 21)

 

And looking at Ps. 24 the Lord is King of glory who ascends the throne of the heavens at the utmost pinnacle of power, in preeminent perfection of state, transportingly transcendent. Glory is the crowning diadem of all the attributes of deity. The scriptures teach that holiness, righteousness, faithfulness, goodness, graciousness, loving-kindness, and all such virtues are glory crowned. Presiding in kingly dignity over the total aggregate of the entire range is the King of Glory.

`Lift up your heads, O you gates! And be lifted up, you everlasting doors! And the King of glory shall come in. Who is this King of glory? THE LORD STRONG AND MIGHTY, THE LORD MIGHTY IN BATTLE....` (Ps. 24: 7 & 8)

 

Marilyn. 

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On 4/26/2019 at 1:27 AM, Marilyn C said:

Hi Retro,

You seem to forget -

Father and Son in Godhead reveal -

1.the express image of personality.

`....spoken to us by His Son,......who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person..` (Heb. 1:2 & 3)

Shabbat shalom, Marilyn.

And YOU seem to forget that an "express image" (Greek: characteer = "a graving tool" or "an impression, representation, exact reproduction")  is NOT the same as the object from which the image is made! The object is 3-D; the engraving is 2-D!

Also, the word "person," which YOU render "personality," is the Greek word "hupostasis," which was twice rendered "assurance," twice rendered "confidence," and only this once as "person," expressing "nature." The word comes from "hupo" meaning "under" and "stasis" which means "standing." Thus, it is "what is UNDER something to make it STAND." It's the SUBSTRUCTURE or the UNDERGIRDING or the FOUNDATION for something!

With the fact that "brightness" is the Greek word "apaugasma," which comes from "apo" meaning "away from" and "augazoo" meaning "to shine," and that "glory" is the Greek word "doxa," which means "that which makes something apparent" and thus is used for "fame" or for "shine" as in the light of the sun, moon, or stars, we get the whole phrase, "who being the ray of His shine and the engraving of His substance." This phrase does NOT mean that He is identical to God, His Father.

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2.the exact substance of entity in mind, will and heart,

`I and my Father are one.` (John 10: 30)

This sentence means that they are "ON THE SAME PAGE (in mind, will, and heart)!" It does NOT mean that they are exactly the same!

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3.and the entire oneness of Being in regards to wisdom, work and whereabouts, which are expressed by the use of the words, omniscience, omnipotence and omnipresence.

`....as you, Father, are in me, and I in you;....` (John 17: 21)

And, THIS is where so many who embrace the idea of the Trinity (Tri-Unity) of God are thrown off base! The attributes of God are indeed omniscience (all-knowing), omnipotence (all-powerful), and omnipresent (present everywhere). However, that aspect of God called the Word in John 1:1-14 "BECAME FLESH" and, as a baby, He was named "Yeshua`" for "He shall save" His people from their sins. (Matthew 1:21.) Of this baby, we read this about Shim`own in the Temple,

25 And, behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon; and the same man was just and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel: and the Holy Ghost was upon him. 26 And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord's Christ. (Greek: ton Christon Kuriou = "the Anointed [One] of-[the]-Lord," a Greek translation of the Hebrew phrase "haMashiyach YHWH") 27 And he came by the Spirit into the temple: and when the parents brought in the child Jesus, to do for him after the custom of the law, 28 Then took he him up in his arms, and blessed God, and said,

29 "Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy word: 30 For mine eyes have seen thy salvation, 31 Which thou hast prepared before the face of all people; 32 A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel."
(Luke 2:25-32.)

" Now, what "flesh" do you know of that is "present everywhere?" Yet, Yeshua`, even as a RESURRECTED BODY, said, "Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have!"
(Luke 24:39.)

And yet, even as a human body, His Father WAS in Him, for He freely admitted that it was His FATHER'S power that He demonstrated in the miracles He performed! Furthermore, one needs to read the whole passage in John 17:

John 17:1-26 (KJV)

1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said,

"Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: 2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. 4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. 5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. 7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee. 8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me. 9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. 10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them. 11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. 12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

13 And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves. 14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil. 16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. 18As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world. 19And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; 21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: 23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me. 24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

25 O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me. 26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.

Is He saying, then, that WE become part of the "Trinity?!" I don't think so. Therefore, Yeshua` is not talking about His relationship to His Father in the "Trinity," either!

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And looking at Ps. 24 the Lord is King of glory who ascends the throne of the heavens at the utmost pinnacle of power, in preeminent perfection of state, transportingly transcendent. Glory is the crowning diadem of all the attributes of deity. The scriptures teach that holiness, righteousness, faithfulness, goodness, graciousness, loving-kindness, and all such virtues are glory crowned. Presiding in kingly dignity over the total aggregate of the entire range is the King of Glory.

`Lift up your heads, O you gates! And be lifted up, you everlasting doors! And the King of glory shall come in. Who is this King of glory? THE LORD STRONG AND MIGHTY, THE LORD MIGHTY IN BATTLE....` (Ps. 24: 7 & 8)

Marilyn. 

Finally, you've misread Psalm 24 and misunderstand its meaning. This song is NOT about God reigning over the "heavens!" This is talking about God reigning over all the earth through His Messiah, who is called "His strong right arm!" Just where do you think these "gates" and "everlasting doors" are?

They're in JERUSALEM!

You're glossing over and therefore missing key elements in the song!

6 Zeh dowr dorshow dorshaayow mVaqsheey paaneeykhaa Ya`aqoV. Caalaah:

This translates into English as "thy face JACOB!"

Also, as it typical with Gentile Christians, they mistake "haa'aarets" for "the (WHOLE) earth" when it usually refers to "the LAND," particularly the Land of Israel! 

Even when the Messiah Yeshua` wins against His enemies in battle when He comes again, whom do you think will get the glory? the fame? He will give it all to His Father, as He has ALWAYS done!

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On ‎4‎/‎24‎/‎2019 at 3:09 PM, Marilyn C said:

Hi Retro,

Yes, the Lord was before the world began, for it was through Him that the world was made. (Heb. 1: 2) He was (& still is) King of glory, King of heaven, & King of the ages. We know that when the Lord was manifest on earth He came -

1. As a Man. This was to redeem all mankind, (all who receive Him).

2. As a Jew from the nation of Israel. This was to receive the kingship over Judah and Israel, and thus over the nations of the world.

 

So, the Lord Jesus as Head of the Body, is the KingPriest of a whole order of kingpriests. These 2 offices were never put together in Israel.

And the Lord Jesus as King over Israel receives the throne of David. He will delegate a man named David to rule in the millennium and with him some priests. (Ez. 37: 24, 44: 15)

The Lord Jesus has many titles, many offices, and we are just part of His heritage, as is Israel.

Marilyn.

Hi Retro,

Going back to my comments above, I never really saw your reply regarding Jesus as Head of the Body, of a whole order of kingpriests. These offices are never together in Israel or Jewish History. These offices come from the Lord Himself, who is a King and a (High) Priest. The Lord has many titles and they all do not come from Him being associated with Israel.

Marilyn.

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On 4/26/2019 at 1:27 AM, Marilyn C said:

Hi Retro,

You seem to forget -

Father and Son in Godhead reveal -

1.the express image of personality.

`....spoken to us by His Son,......who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person..` (Heb. 1:2 & 3)

Shabbat shalom, Marilyn.

And YOU seem to forget that an "express image" (Greek: characteer = "a graving tool" or "an impression, representation, exact reproduction")  is NOT the same as the object from which the image is made! The object is 3-D; the engraving is 2-D!

Also, the word "person," which YOU render "personality," is the Greek word "hupostasis," which was twice rendered "assurance," twice rendered "confidence," and only this once as "person," expressing "nature." The word comes from "hupo" meaning "under" and "stasis" which means "standing." Thus, it is "what is UNDER something to make it STAND." It's the SUBSTRUCTURE or the UNDERGIRDING or the FOUNDATION for something!

With the fact that "brightness" is the Greek word "apaugasma," which comes from "apo" meaning "away from" and "augazoo" meaning "to shine," and that "glory" is the Greek word "doxa," which means "that which makes something apparent" and thus is used for "fame" or for "shine" as in the light of the sun, moon, or stars, we get the whole phrase, "who being the ray of His shine and the engraving of His substance." This phrase does NOT mean that He is identical to God, His Father.

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2.the exact substance of entity in mind, will and heart,

`I and my Father are one.` (John 10: 30)

This sentence means that they are "ON THE SAME PAGE (in mind, will, and heart)!" It does NOT mean that they are exactly the same!

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3.and the entire oneness of Being in regards to wisdom, work and whereabouts, which are expressed by the use of the words, omniscience, omnipotence and omnipresence.

`....as you, Father, are in me, and I in you;....` (John 17: 21)

And, THIS is where so many who embrace the idea of the Trinity (Tri-Unity) of God are thrown off base! The attributes of God are indeed omniscience (all-knowing), omnipotence (all-powerful), and omnipresent (present everywhere). However, that aspect of God called the Word in John 1:1-14 "BECAME FLESH" and, as a baby, He was named "Yeshua`" for "He shall save" His people from their sins. (Matthew 1:21.) Of this baby, we read this about Shim`own in the Temple,

25 And, behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon; and the same man was just and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel: and the Holy Ghost was upon him. 26 And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord's Christ. (Greek: ton Christon Kuriou = "the Anointed [One] of-[the]-Lord," a translation of "Mashiyach YHWH") 27 And he came by the Spirit into the temple: and when the parents brought in the child Jesus, to do for him after the custom of the law, 28 Then took he him up in his arms, and blessed God, and said,

29 "Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy word: 30 For mine eyes have seen thy salvation, 31 Which thou hast prepared before the face of all people; 32 A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel."

(Luke 2:25-32.)

" Now, what "flesh" do you know of that is "present everywhere?" Yet, Yeshua`, even as a RESURRECTED BODY, said, "Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have!"
(Luke 24:39.)

And yet, even as a human body, Yeshua` left us and promised to return. In fact, His return was detailed by the two men for the disciples:

John 14:1-3 (KJV)

1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. 2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Acts 1:9-11 (KJV)

9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. 10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven (toward the sky) as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; 11 Which also said,

"Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven (into the sky)? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven (into the sky), shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven (into the sky)."

Edited by Retrobyter
to fix a reference
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51 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

 

 

Hi Retro,

Your post above was  a duplicate of your other post. I did ask you for your comment on my post previously. Any comments? or are we finished?

regards, Marilyn.

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