Calculations about the New Jerusalem

[missmuffet]

27 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi missmuffet,

So...can you please give scriptures to show us that God has promised that we will be in the `city?`

Marilyn.

Revelation 21:1-27

[Marilyn C]

30 minutes ago, missmuffet said:

Revelation 21:1-27

Hi missmuffet,

Now where in all those 27 scriptures does it say about us, the Body of Christ? Also, that is the finale and we really need to have scriptures before then to show that that is what God has promised us.

Marilyn. 

[missmuffet]

2 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi missmuffet,

Now where in all those 27 scriptures does it say about us, the Body of Christ? Also, that is the finale and we really need to have scriptures before then to show that that is what God has promised us.

Marilyn. 

If you read those verses literally there is no way you will deny that there is an eternal state and a New Jerusalem after the 1000 year millennium where all born again believers will dwell 2 Peter 3:13 . Too often people give the words of the Bible their own meaning which is dangerous. 

Revelation 22:18-19For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, [b]God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; 19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God[c] shall take away his part from the [d]Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

 

Edited April 13, 2019 by missmuffet

[Marilyn C]

5 hours ago, missmuffet said:

If you read those verses literally there is no way you will deny that there is an eternal state and a New Jerusalem after the 1000 year millennium where all born again believers will dwell 2 Peter 3:13 . Too often people give the words of the Bible their own meaning which is dangerous. 

Revelation 22:18-19For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, [b]God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; 19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God[c] shall take away his part from the [d]Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

 

Hi missmuffet,

I`m glad we agree that there is an eternal state and a New Jerusalem. That wasn`t what was asked. Here is my question again.

Now where in all those 27 scriptures does it say about us, the Body of Christ? Also, that is the finale and we really need to have scriptures before then to show that that is what God has promised us.

Now you have said - if you read those verses literally...` (Rev. 21: 1 - 27)

Let`s just have a quick look to see if those verses are `literal.`

1. `...the holy city.....prepared AS a bride.` (V. 2) If I said, "that boy runs AS fast as a hare." The boy is not a hare but his running is described AS a hare, (fast) The holy city is NOT a bride, but it is a symbol of God`s glory, `...having the glory of God.` (v. 11) 

2. `...the glory . And her light was LIKE a most precious stone, LIKE a jasper stone..` (v. 11) Again we see that these are symbols of God`s glory.

3. `...she had a great and high wall ...` (v. 12) Do those inside this city need actual walls to keep out the baddies???  I think not. Scripture tells us what the `walls` represent.

So you see mm, it is not all literal, but has quite a lot of symbols for us to understand what it really is.

I am preparing a thread on `Who is in the `City,` and will go into more detail there.

Marilyn.

 

[missmuffet]

12 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi missmuffet,

I`m glad we agree that there is an eternal state and a New Jerusalem. That wasn`t what was asked. Here is my question again.

Now where in all those 27 scriptures does it say about us, the Body of Christ? Also, that is the finale and we really need to have scriptures before then to show that that is what God has promised us.

Now you have said - if you read those verses literally...` (Rev. 21: 1 - 27)

Let`s just have a quick look to see if those verses are `literal.`

1. `...the holy city.....prepared AS a bride.` (V. 2) If I said, "that boy runs AS fast as a hare." The boy is not a hare but his running is described AS a hare, (fast) The holy city is NOT a bride, but it is a symbol of God`s glory, `...having the glory of God.` (v. 11) 

2. `...the glory . And her light was LIKE a most precious stone, LIKE a jasper stone..` (v. 11) Again we see that these are symbols of God`s glory.

3. `...she had a great and high wall ...` (v. 12) Do those inside this city need actual walls to keep out the baddies???  I think not. Scripture tells us what the `walls` represent.

So you see mm, it is not all literal, but has quite a lot of symbols for us to understand what it really is.

I am preparing a thread on `Who is in the `City,` and will go into more detail there.

Marilyn.

 

I do not support your interpretation. 

[Retrobyter]

11 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi missmuffet,

I`m glad we agree that there is an eternal state and a New Jerusalem. That wasn`t what was asked. Here is my question again.

Now where in all those 27 scriptures does it say about us, the Body of Christ? Also, that is the finale and we really need to have scriptures before then to show that that is what God has promised us.

Now you have said - if you read those verses literally...` (Rev. 21: 1 - 27)

Let`s just have a quick look to see if those verses are `literal.`

1. `...the holy city.....prepared AS a bride.` (V. 2) If I said, "that boy runs AS fast as a hare." The boy is not a hare but his running is described AS a hare, (fast) The holy city is NOT a bride, but it is a symbol of God`s glory, `...having the glory of God.` (v. 11) 

2. `...the glory . And her light was LIKE a most precious stone, LIKE a jasper stone..` (v. 11) Again we see that these are symbols of God`s glory.

3. `...she had a great and high wall ...` (v. 12) Do those inside this city need actual walls to keep out the baddies???  I think not. Scripture tells us what the `walls` represent.

So you see mm, it is not all literal, but has quite a lot of symbols for us to understand what it really is.

I am preparing a thread on `Who is in the `City,` and will go into more detail there.

Marilyn.

 

Shabbat shalom, Marilyn.

The Holy City IS the bride! You read one verse but didn't read the rest:

Revelation 21:9-14 (KJV)

9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying,

"Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife."

10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, 11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal; 12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel: 13 On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates. 14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

It wasn't people that the messenger showed Yochanan; it was the CITY ITSELF! THAT is the "bride, the Lamb's wife!"

Furthermore, you didn't read the first part of the chapter very well, either:

Revelation 21:2-3 (KJV)

2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven (out of the sky), prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven (a loud voice from the throne) saying,

"Behold, the tabernacle of God (Greek: hee skeenee tou Theou = "God's tent") is with men, and he will dwell with them (Greek: skeenoosei met' autoon = "He-will-tent with them"), and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God."

[Marilyn C]

3 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

 

 

Hi Retro,

John said, "Behold! The Lamb of God...." (John 1: 29) So is Jesus a sheep? Of course not. We know from God`s word He was `led as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before its shearers is silent.` (Isa. 53: 7) 

So to with the `bride.` We are told previously that the city is AS A BRIDE. Not that it is a bride but AS, meaning it is a SYMBOL. Jesus does not marry a city or thousands of people. We are told in God`s word what the symbol stands for -

`...and will not remember the reproach of your widowhood any more. For your Maker is your HUSBAND, the Lord of hosts is His name; and your redeemer is the Holy One of Israel;...` (Isa. 54: 4 & 5)

`I will betroth you to me for ever; Yes, I will betroth you to me in righteousness and justice, in loving-kindness and mercy; I will betroth you to me in faithfulness...` (Hosea 2: 19 & 20) 

God is their husband, their Master. That is the relationship that God has with Israel.

 

And who did God promise to go to the `city?` We read in Hebrews that it is the Old Testament saints, who looked or the promised city.

`And now they desire a better, that is a heavenly country. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a city for them.` (Heb. 11: 16)

 

Now we know that God is omnipresent and thus will be with those in the city by His Holy Spirit, as He is in ALL OF HIS GREAT KINGDOM. Do you remember what King Solomon prayed,

`But will God indeed dwell with men on the earth? Behold, heaven and the heaven of heavens cannot contain you; how much less this temple which I have built!` (2 Chron. 6: 18) 

All of God`s word dove tails together.

Marilyn.

 

[Retrobyter]

5 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Retro,

John said, "Behold! The Lamb of God...." (John 1: 29) So is Jesus a sheep? Of course not. We know from God`s word He was `led as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before its shearers is silent.` (Isa. 53: 7) 

So to with the `bride.` We are told previously that the city is AS A BRIDE. Not that it is a bride but AS, meaning it is a SYMBOL. Jesus does not marry a city or thousands of people. We are told in God`s word what the symbol stands for -

`...and will not remember the reproach of your widowhood any more. For your Maker is your HUSBAND, the Lord of hosts is His name; and your redeemer is the Holy One of Israel;...` (Isa. 54: 4 & 5)

`I will betroth you to me for ever; Yes, I will betroth you to me in righteousness and justice, in loving-kindness and mercy; I will betroth you to me in faithfulness...` (Hosea 2: 19 & 20) 

God is their husband, their Master. That is the relationship that God has with Israel.

 

And who did God promise to go to the `city?` We read in Hebrews that it is the Old Testament saints, who looked or the promised city.

`And now they desire a better, that is a heavenly country. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a city for them.` (Heb. 11: 16)

 

Now we know that God is omnipresent and thus will be with those in the city by His Holy Spirit, as He is in ALL OF HIS GREAT KINGDOM. Do you remember what King Solomon prayed,

`But will God indeed dwell with men on the earth? Behold, heaven and the heaven of heavens cannot contain you; how much less this temple which I have built!` (2 Chron. 6: 18) 

All of God`s word dove tails together.

Marilyn.

 

Shalom, Marilyn.

You absolutely MUST learn your own history! It's not black and white, y'know. It's not "Old Testament saints" and "New Testament saints!" At first, ALL the disciples were children of Israel! Even the ones who were originally Gentiles, such as the centurion, and the woman from Sidon, were PROSELYTES to Y'hudah, being both sympathizers and friends to the Nation Yeshua` would one day rule!

Even the apostle (the one sent) to the Gentiles, Rav Sha`uwl surnamed "Paulos" after his Roman benefactor, Sergius Paulus, was primarily a child of Israel, a son of Bin-yamin, and a prominent figure among the P'rushiym (the Pharisees), the "Separatists." It wasn't until the late 200s and early 300s that the break between the "Gentile" Christians and the Jews was forced by the RCC. They changed the Passover Seder to the "Lord's Supper"; they changed the "congregation of Israel" into "the Universal (Catholic) Church"; they changed immersion in the Mikvah to "Baptism"; they changed the holidays, often adopting pagan holidays and giving them a Christian name and definition.

Paul never taught this!

His words were...

Ephesians 2:11-22 (KJV)

11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12 That at that time ye were without Christ (without a Messiah), being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel (aliens from the citizenship of Israel), and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: 13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ (the blood of the Messiah). 14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; 15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain (two) one new man, so making peace; 16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: 17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off (Gentiles), and to them that were nigh (near, the Children of Israel). 18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

19 Now therefore ye (Gentiles) are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints (the children of Israel), and of the household of God; 20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone ("the head stone of the corner" = the "CAPSTONE"); 21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: 22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

The Gentile believers were to be absorbed and assimilated into the citizenship of Israel!

To the Galatians, Paul said,

Galatians 3:26-29 (KJV)

26 For ye (Galatian Gentiles) are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus (in the Messiah Yeshua`). 
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ (into the Messiah) have put on Christ (put on the Messiah). 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus (in the Messiah Yeshua`). 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

And, what "promise" did God give to Avraham?

Genesis 17:7-8 (KJV)

7 "And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee. 8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God."

Please understand that we are ONE people in the Messiah! And, the group that had the identity with God was the children of Israel. Gentiles were assimilated into the Messiah's future Kingdom, a Jewish Kingdom, an Israeliy Kingdom!

Israel doesn't get absorbed into a Gentile "Church";
Gentiles get absorbed into a Jewish KINGDOM!

Edited April 14, 2019 by Retrobyter

[Marilyn C]

4 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

 

Hi Retro,

There is NO scriptural proof to your assumption bro.

Marilyn.

[Heybro]

Hey there everyone, I believe that this is the time to" put up the flag" as there seems to be 2 trains of thought on this subject. In my understanding, we will not always agree on things this side of Glory, and I think it's time to put this one "to bed," no winners here, let's just not argue anymore. You should all know what I know, and that is, "at the END of days, JESUS WILL HAVE THE LAST SAY," amen, God bless.