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To a certain degree (and that only temporarily) we can legislate morality.

But the only way to have permanent success in this regard is to win the heart

one person at a time.

Same with witnessing truth / eternity to the lost.

You never force anyone into the Kingdom nor brow beat them.

You have to win them convince them, love them into the Kingdom

one soul at a time.

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18 hours ago, thomas t said:

Hi John,

I believe you are not the only one to say so.

The Bible was written a context in which Christians did not insult them or prohibit them from replying when Christians talked about them in public. Neither did the Bible prophesy that there will be a moment in which Christians mock atheists or treat them in a condescending manner. You only mention atheists mocking us ;).

So now times seem to have changed as we can see here. We can still visit the old threads here on Worthy in which atheists were subjected to personal attacks stemming from the believing side. Or look at the quote below...

I would call it a theory that these recent developments do not contribute to the way Jesus judges them.

 

Hi BB,

don't you think ot might be condescending when you talk about them in this manner? When they can't reply as you know?

The atheists on Worhty certainly feel excluded by us. This is all the more true when we come to talk about them without them having the possibility to reply. I happen to have a statement from an atheist (Kevin B) in my PM inbox which reads

"Hi all that can read and reply. 

Essentially I was I  this site a while ago,  was always polite, was always respectful despite receiving threatening and ad hominem attack replies from Christians. I'm deeply saddened to see the site has taken great lengths to inhibit discourse and replies from non believers. I think this is massively segregating and doesn't help,  in fact hinders, integration and understanding all views is essential as we have to share space and the steps this site has taken to put up further walls only adds to dividing us."

Regards,

Thomas

 

 

With all due respect , Jesus did not seem to be worried about “ stepping on toes”, and He was the One who came up with the insult.I used to be an atheist .The fear of going to Hell as a “ swine” played a big part in my Salvation.Nobody gets saved until they see they are lost.Rejecting the finished work of Jesus Christ makes one a “ swine.”Best be informed about it now, while their is a chance to do something about it.If the “bad news” is taken to heart, they will be ready to receive the Gospel.Or remain a pig .Their choice.

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11 hours ago, Blood Bought 1953 said:

Jesus did not seem to be worried about “ stepping on toes”

Hi Blood Bought,

when he was in the temple... yes he wasn't worried. 

11 hours ago, Blood Bought 1953 said:

If the “bad news” is taken to heart, they will be ready to receive the Gospel.Or remain a pig

I stay with my opinion, this is highly disrespectful, especially when you know they are there...

Everyone can read, this is a public fourm - even atheists can read that you call them "swine" and "pig".

Even if you say getting called "pig" and "swine" helped you... disrespectful behaviour is disrespectful behaviour. If you appreciate being beaten... that doesn't mean that others appreciate being beaten by you, too.

Regards,

Thomas

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On 4/18/2019 at 5:51 AM, thomas t said:

Essentially I was I  this site a while ago,  was always polite, was always respectful despite receiving threatening and ad hominem attack replies from Christians. I'm deeply saddened to see the site has taken great lengths to inhibit discourse and replies from non believers. I think this is massively segregating and doesn't help,  in fact hinders, integration and understanding all views is essential as we have to share space and the steps this site has taken to put up further walls only adds to dividing us."

Hi Thomas,  This is a good point. I don't think those who insult atheists ever stopped to wonder why they are here. I'm sure there are exceptions to what I'm saying but I think most atheists who come here want to be convinced their atheism is wrong. Being nasty to them only shows them we Christians are not only wrong but total hypocrites as well. In the Bible we are called ambassadors for Christ, we represent Him. Whether we like it or not, Christ, the Bible, and Christianity is judged by how we behave. "yeah well, don't look at me look at Jesus", ever hear that, I have. It's a lovely idea but it's not realistic.

I'm hoping for a new reformation, one in which every believer puts his beliefs into actions every day.

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On 4/14/2019 at 9:38 AM, JohnD said:

One in particular I gave a book written by Dr. A.E. Wilder Smith (former atheist).

I soooo, enjoy Dr. A. E. Wilder Smith, ...brilliant man, he had 12 PhD's, and then Jesus got a hold of him and put all of that knowledge to use in His Kingdom, ...the difference between how a chicken and a duck walk and then taught a spiritual principle from it, LOL ...I've only watched him on YouTube, please can you give me some names of the book(s) he wrote? 

Lord bless

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13 hours ago, thomas t said:

Hi Blood Bought,

when he was in the temple... yes he wasn't worried. 

I stay with my opinion, this is highly disrespectful, especially when you know they are there...

Everyone can read, this is a public fourm - even atheists can read that you call them "swine" and "pig".

Even if you say getting called "pig" and "swine" helped you... disrespectful behaviour is disrespectful behaviour. If you appreciate being beaten... that doesn't mean that others appreciate being beaten by you, too.

Regards,

Thomas

 

It seems that I have presented myself as a real ogre.I should explain my position better.Here goes—-

I have engaged many atheist here in my short time at Worthy.As a former atheist myself, I will bend over backwards to help these lost souls if they come here in sincerity to have an open and honest conversation.Even the troublemakers  have my prayers .The majority that I have seen are only here to show off their superior intellects,doing their best to show that Christians are stupid, too weak to confront the cruel realities of life and thus are easy targets for a guy to spend a fun afternoon or two .I put up with it, Pray for them and try to get them in the Bible.Not all are “ swine”.It is only when they cross a certain line.As Jesus wisely said, they will attack what you say and then come after YOU.That's the swine that Jesus spoke of.When I see the good, sweet people here, especially the women , that is when I see red.A justifiable anger.Even at that, I don’t personally call them “ swine”. As an end to a conversation that will go nowhere,unless the Holy Spirit open their eyes at some later time, I will tell them that I will not cast my pearls before swine.They are entitled to the truth, even if it is unpleasant to hear. My conversation with them is at an end at this point .....perhaps the “pearls before swine” will give them something to think about.

 I believe that along with the initial friendliness we should show an honest seeker, they also need to hear the scary truth that they are unaware of.They are headed for Hell like a speeding bullet .They need to see that they are lost sinners who need a Savior.They falsely think they have the option of choosing which side is correct and make their moves accordingly.The Truth is that “ Nobody comes lest The Spirit draw him” They are in more danger than they realize. I believe in using the bad cop/ good cop approach. I strongly believe that they need to hear the bad news before they are ready for the “ Good News”. Jesus delivered the unbelievabley horrible news of going to Hell for harboring as much as a lustful thought, the bad cop message. Then He procaimed that “ all who ask for mercy shall receive it.”How would the see a need for mercy until they saw their depravity before a Holy God?Paul, at the very beginning of his missives, talked about the universal depravity of all Mankind, then revealed God’s way of rescue.Bad cop-Good cop.We need to be kind to the unbeliever, but real love must also contain some painful truths.Engaging with these types intellectually is a waste of time. Convince their hearts , with some old time “ fear and trembling” and the intellect will follow.I never moved a muscle towards God until I saw the horror of my unbelieving state of mind.If it worked f or me, I am confident it will work for others.Let us take these people from ignorance to wisdom— “ The fear of God is the beginning of Wisdom”. God bless 

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Hi Blood Bought,

now I see your approach is much more balanced than I thought it was.

Thank you for your clarification that was helpful.

Let me tell you my view from a German perspective. We in Germany are basically unable to cope with the influx of people eager to hear the good news. We don't need to tell them "listen", they listen anyways - but we don't have the experienced workers willing and able to build the people up we are already welcoming at church. This...

On 4/20/2019 at 8:35 AM, Blood Bought 1953 said:

I strongly believe that they need to hear the bad news before they are ready for the “ Good News”.

... I mean what you think to be the right bad news... is not needed currently. People come anyway. We need more workforce to build the people up that are already there, including the many refugees who just converted but are in dire need to be fed spritiually. Their "bad news" is their entire life: first they got persecuted in their home countries and then they find themselves at the very margins of their new home. Sometimes there is even racism from within the Christian ranks.

On 4/20/2019 at 8:35 AM, Blood Bought 1953 said:

As an end to a conversation that will go nowhere,unless the Holy Spirit open their eyes at some later time, I will tell them that I will not cast my pearls before swine.

Even if... even if the swine thing comes at the end of the entire conversation and even if your conversation partner were to be a swine in God's sight... it is abusive to say so, I think. Jesus never said "call them swine" or so.

Blood Bought, you are such an experienced worker, can't you perhaps come up with any other idea to put an end to a conversation?

The people who might copy your style will hurl around the "swine" thing all the time... Actually, throughout the many dicussions we saw here on Worthy that ended with an array of heavy insultings against our atheist guests... the Christian poster seemed to think the same exact thing. Something in the sense of "oh my goodness: I told them my opinion already three times in a row, but they won't listen, it seems, so... I will insult them now!" But maybe their stance was simply too weak to convince? Maybe?

On 4/20/2019 at 8:35 AM, Blood Bought 1953 said:

Convince their hearts , with some old time “ fear and trembling” and the intellect will follow

Christians are already having the image of being too agressive in my view.

On 4/20/2019 at 8:35 AM, Blood Bought 1953 said:

If it worked f or me, I am confident it will work for others.

let's assume you win two others with that... just wondering how are they going to behave? Here in Germany, many Germans are turned off by aggressive Christian behaviour, already.

If you transform your church into a dungeon, don't be surprised when you attract some Rambos, I would say.

Anyway, thank you for your thoughtful answer, BB.

 

Regards,

Thomas

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But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me was not in vain; but I labored more abundantly than they all, yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me. (1 Corinthians 15:10)

Only by God's grace are any of us saved. Anyone who hates atheists does so in pride, because they could just as easily be in the same place if it were not for God extending salvation to that person.

15-ish years ago, I was a very active member of a science-themed online forum where I was one of the few Christians and was regularly mocked. Unfortunately, I lacked the maturity at the time to handle it better, and I tended to get into arguments that accomplished nothing (other than possibly making Christians and God look bad). Now, I tend to simply look upon such people with sadness, knowing that are being deceived by Satan and lack the understanding of truth that Christians have been given as a gift from God. But remembering that everything from salvation to knowledge and understanding are all gifts from God should keep us humble, not hating those who are pawns of the devil.

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If all of this is a reference to me and my type......I do not hate atheists.....I used to be one .....I hate what they do when they ridicule the good people of this site.Wolves attacking sheep. I don’t like it. God doesn’t either.Of course we forgive them, that does not mean we have to like it OR put up with it— we are to shake the dirt off of our feet and move on.......

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54 minutes ago, Blood Bought 1953 said:

 

If all of this is a reference to me and my type......I do not hate atheists.....I used to be one .....I hate what they do when they ridicule the good people of this site.Wolves attacking sheep. I don’t like it. God doesn’t either.Of course we forgive them, that does not mean we have to like it OR put up with it— we are to shake the dirt off of our feet and move on.......

If we dare to refer to the OT we get a clear sense of the folly and contemptibility of atheism.
Psa 53:1-6
(1)  To the Chief Musician. Set to "Mahalath." A Contemplation of David. The fool has said in his heart,"There is no God." They are corrupt, and have done abominable iniquity; There is none who does good.
(2)  God looks down from heaven upon the children of men, To see if there are any who understand, who seek God.
(3)  Every one of them has turned aside; They have together become corrupt; There is none who does good, No, not one.
(4)  Have the workers of iniquity no knowledge, Who eat up my people as they eat bread, And do not call upon God?
(5)  There they are in great fear Where no fear was, For God has scattered the bones of him who encamps against you; You have put them to shame, Because God has despised them.
(6)  Oh, that the salvation of Israel would come out of Zion! When God brings back the captivity of His people, Let Jacob rejoice and Israel be glad.
 

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