Scary Thoughts

[JTC]

55 minutes ago, pinacled said:

Its the unforgivable which makes it very much different.

Murder is only unforgivable to man, not God. The only thing God finds unforgivable is if a mature Christian, a person who knows God and he knows that he knows God, if this person tells God to go away, get lost, I want nothing of you, and then proves this with his life style, this God can't forgive. Why? God is not unreasonable. There is a very good reason. Uncounted eons ago a terrible thing happened to God. He had created a race of immortals we call the angels. God lavished gifts upon all of them but 1 was special to God. This 1 is said to be the most beautiful one and have access to everything God has short of His throne. This angel betrayed God and started a war against Him hoping to gain His throne. This angel & his cohorts were defeated but God became very sensitive to His people who knowingly reject Him. This is why in the OT, especially with the Israelis who saw Him part the Red Sea God killed the ones who made an idol of gold. Those people saw that God is real and they still turned against him and they died for it. Murder is a most serious sin but it's not unforgivable. As bad as murder is it's a sin against another person not the person of God. If a man who knew God was to turn and join a Satan worshiping church that's worse in God's eyes than murder. But this too may be pardoned if the repentance is sincere. God loves true repentance, it's the stubborn attitudes that make us feel we had a right to that sin, this is what God has problems with. This is why Jesus said He'd spit out the lukewarm church. A lukewarm person is a believer who also loves the world, yes. It's also the person who prays and confesses his sins but deep down felt he had a right to do it. True repentance of murder will be forgiven. But the murderer may pay dearly in this life.

______________________________

Hopefully what I said above explains why Satan can never be forgiven. Besides, what makes you think Satan was ever sorry for attacking God? From what we can see Satan still wants control and God's throne.

Edited April 14, 2019 by JTC
added statements on Satan

[JTC]

1 hour ago, pinacled said:

True, Satan and his seed teach murder is forgivable.

Ever wonder why Jews who survived the holocaust and all those that heard people proclaiming murder is forgivable steer clear of a certain people. And rightfully So. Those people would kill them all the while proclaiming they the Jews deserved to be sent to hell.

Then with applause all those who took the mark of the beast praise Hitler. 

The unbridled tongues offering salvation to Satan the murderer will receive their reward.

 

Satan's sin was not murder it was betrayal & rebellion against God Himself. Satan also corrupted 1/3 of the angels and then started a war in heaven, a place of beauty and all peace. Satan has not repented nor does he have an attitude of repentance. Remember that Satan & the angels are immortal, as far as we know. We have no reasons to doubt this. Even though Satan is being punished he could try to appease God thereby showing how sorry he is. Instead, as soon as mortal man appeared on earth all Satan has done is try to spoil this part of God's creation too. Satan thus proves his true nature and that God's judgement of him is correct & true.

Moses did indeed kill a man in a situation that may be considered murder. (Ex. 2 11&12) But what King David did was definitely murder. David's sin wasn't just murder it was devious, premeditated, and very selfish, and yet God forgave him because his repentance was sincere. Still, God does hate murder and considers it a problem which is why the ancient Israelis were told to execute premeditated murderers. Again, this is a consequence of the sin while on earth. Murder is only forgivable in the sense that God won't bar you from heaven if your repentance is sincere. It doesn't mean the murderer won't be executed nor does it mean God will save him from other suffering on earth. But this is true of any sin. (I know some churches teach the opposite of this, they're wrong) God will be with a believer in his suffering, yes, but usually God will not save you from suffering for your sins.

[Mike Mclees]

13 hours ago, pinacled said:

True, Satan and his seed teach murder is forgivable.

Ever wonder why Jews who survived the holocaust and all those that heard people proclaiming murder is forgivable steer clear of a certain people. And rightfully So. Those people would kill them all the while proclaiming they the Jews deserved to be sent to hell.

Then with applause all those who took the mark of the beast praise Hitler. 

The unbridled tongues offering salvation to Satan the murderer will receive their reward.

 

If a man truly knew God and the denied him would not be good. But God is the only judge of a man. Jesus is long suffering and God is not willing that any man be lost. If tis man carried his denial to his grave then he is truly lost. But like the theif on the cross who believd and asked to be remembered Jesus Forgave in the hour of his death.

About the unforgivable sin Luke 

Matthew 12:32 King James Version (KJV)

³² And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

The Pharisees accused Jesus of doing miracle by the power of the Devil. Math 12:24 

[johnthebaptist]

5 minutes ago, pinacled said:

By scary, do you mean guilt.

I was thinking of anything that is scary. I think that it is more than just guilt, though maybe guilt is at the root of it. I might be afraid I am going to go broke. That isn't really a guilt thing, is it? But guilt might be the reason I think I might go broke.

[JTC]

1 hour ago, pinacled said:

Scary dream you having there, none of which is true.

The only spirit that accuses David of murder is...guess.

What do you think was a dream? I didn't tell you anything from a dream.

If you don't think David committed a murder then what do you think David was referring to in Psalm 51 when he prays about his sin(s)?

[johnthebaptist]

2 hours ago, pinacled said:

Ah, ok I see what you mean. Yes I've been there. It like severing ties with someone who you've known a long time. Family members or job for example that are people you can no longer associate with due to unhealthy environment. Its more pain of loss than guilt. Or scary as you put it.

But those who believe are not given a spirit of fear. 

The Lord does provide. But there is some asking involved. The Lords family looks after one another.

Yes, the Lord provides. Faith is an important element. It's easier to have faith when we are obedient to the Lord's wishes.

[Jayne]

David was indeed a murderer and it wasn't just Uriah's death that he was responsible for.  No, his killings in wartime were not murder.

But there is a chapter that many Christians do not know of where David literally murdered lots of people to keep his theft quiet.  It's the chapter where he learned how to shut someone up by killing them.  Where do you think that David learned to kill this way?  By the time that Uriah came around, David was already familiar with murder of this type.

1 Samuel chapter 27

•  David is so depressed and emotionally distraught about King Saul hunting him that he says to himself, "He's going to kill me eventually.  I'll just go live with the Philistines."  And he does and takes his men and their families with him to live out their lives in obscurity and in hiding.   David is in a pitiful place.

 

•  David calls himself a "servant" of the Philistine king "unworthy to live in the same town of" and the Philistine king gives him a town called Ziklag to live in.  David is in a very bad place in his head and heart.  He's given  up. He lives there a year and four months.

 

•  For the entire year and four months [so says the Bible], David would steal clothes and sheep, camels, donkeys, and oxen from neighboring Philistine areas.  The Bible says he killed everyone - man and woman - to keep them from telling the Philistine king what David and his men were doing.

 

• Whenever he met with the Philistine king and the king asked David what he had been up to and where he was getting these things [he must have given some to the king], David would lie and say that he was raiding towns in Israel.  The king believed him and was pleased.

The next chapter keeps the story going and David finds himself at his lowest point every in his life.  EVERYONE turns against him - his own men included.

At the same time, King Saul is at his lowest point in his life - depression, anxiety, and more over God taking his hand off of him.

The difference in the two men?  Not much as far as their lives are concerned.

But their HEARTS!!!

King Saul turns to a witch for comfort and guidance.

David repents and turns to God.

God will forgive ANYONE who is repentant.

 

 

[JTC]

2 hours ago, pinacled said:

Adultry

David certainly committed adultery with Bathsheba but the devious thing he did was to have Bathsheba's husband sent to the front lines of the war where he was sure to die. Most folks consider this premeditated murder. Even so God still forgave him which is evident by the rest of his life. However, bear in mind the child born from the adultery was made to die as a baby. Consequences.

****************************************

The story of David and his sin is in 2 Samuel ch 11.

Edited April 15, 2019 by JTC
more info

[Jayne]

8 minutes ago, pinacled said:

Again, circumstances of war do not constitute a false allegation of murder.

I hope you realize the consequence of slandering a servant of the Lord. 

Talk about scary.

 

I specifically state that those actions were not a consequence of war.

I was not slandering David and David is no different than you and me.  He was a sinner - a vile one like the rest of us and God called him.  David repented of his sins which were many and chose God.

That is not slander.

Why do you deny that facts of the Bible?  David was a murderer and turned his back on that behavior and chose God and righteousness.

What I said is not scary at all.

[BibleStudent100]

One might wonder if "scary" thoughts or anxiety in general indicate a lack of faith, but the Bible does not support such a view.  After all, living as we do during “critical times hard to deal with,” it is virtually impossible not to experience anxiety to some degree (2 Timothy 3:1). Faithful Christians cope with daily anxieties that are triggered by poor health, old age, economic pressures, family strife, crime, and other problems. Even in ancient times, God’s servants faced fears and worries.

Consider for example the Bible account of Lot. God instructed him to escape to the mountains to avoid being swept away in the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. Lot, however, became anxious. He said: “Not that, please, God!” Hesitantly, he continued: “But I—I am not able to escape to the mountainous region for fear calamity may keep close to me and I certainly die.” Why did Lot fear the mountains? The Bible does not say. Whatever the reason, Lot felt quite intimidated. How did God react? Was Lot disciplined for lack of faith or trust in God? No. On the contrary, God showed consideration, allowing Lot to escape to a nearby city—Genesis 19:18-22.

There are other Bible examples of faithful worshipers who became very anxious at times. The prophet Elijah became afraid and ran away after receiving a death threat. (1 Kings 19:1-4) Moses, Hannah, David, Habakkuk, Paul, and other men and women of strong faith also expressed anxieties. (Exodus 4:10; 1 Samuel 1:6; Psalm 55:5; Habakkuk 1:2, 3; 2 Corinthians 11:28) Yet, God showed compassion and continued to use them in his service, thereby manifesting a real understanding of imperfect humans.

Persistent anxiety, however, can wear us down and lead to loss of trust in God. The apostle Paul referred to lack of faith as “the sin that easily entangles us.” (Hebrews 12:1) By including himself, Paul was likely admitting his own propensity to get ‘easily entangled’ in episodes of momentary weakness of faith.  Perhaps this was the case with Zechariah when he did not believe the angel who informed him that his wife would become pregnant. On one occasion Jesus’ apostles were unable to perform a cure because of their “little faith.” However, these individuals continued to enjoy God’s approval—Matthew 17:18-20; Luke 1:18, 20, 67; John 17:26.

On the other hand, the Bible also includes examples of people who lost their trust in God and suffered serious consequences. For instance, many Israelites who left Egypt were barred from entering the Promised Land because of their lack of faith. In one incident they even spoke directly against God, saying: “Why have you brought us up out of Egypt to die in the wilderness? For there is no bread and no water.” Indicative of God’s displeasure, poisonous snakes were sent to punish them—Numbers 21:5, 6.

The inhabitants of Jesus’ hometown, Nazareth, missed the privilege of seeing more miracles performed in their territory because they lacked faith. Further, the wicked generation of that day received a scathing denunciation from Jesus because of lack of faith (Matthew 13:58; 17:17; Hebrews 3:19). Appropriately, the apostle Paul warned: “Beware, brothers, for fear there should ever develop in any one of you a wicked heart lacking faith by drawing away from the living God”—Hebrews 3:12.

Yes, in extreme cases lack of faith could result from a wicked heart. But this was not the case with Zechariah and Jesus’ apostles in the examples previously mentioned. Their lack of faith was due to momentary weakness. Their general pattern of life showed that they were “pure in heart.”—Matthew 5:8.

The Scriptures help us to make a distinction between general anxiety and the sin of lack of faith. Daily feelings of anxiety or even a momentary lapse of faith because of human weakness should not be confused with the complete lack of trust in God that springs from a wicked, unresponsive heart. Christians, therefore, need not be plagued by guilt just because they periodically experience anxiety.

Nevertheless, caution is necessary so that anxiety does not grow out of proportion and dominate our lives. Hence, the wisdom of Jesus’ words when he said: “Never be anxious and say, ‘What are we to eat?’ or, ‘What are we to drink?’ or, ‘What are we to put on?’” This he followed with the comforting words: “For your heavenly Father knows you need all these things. Keep on, then, seeking first the kingdom and his righteousness, and all these other things will be added to you”—Matthew 6:25-33.

May a calm peace be upon all here...