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choir loft

ISRAEL IN PROPHECY

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Royal Grant to Israel

The above image illustrates the borders of Israel that were originally promised to Abraham (Genesis 15 - circa 4k years ago) and specifically defined in Joshua 1:4 (3,300 years ago).

Current political anti-semitic bias contends that Jews have no right to the land (Eretz Israel) as a divinely certified homeland.   According to Biblical reference they've been living there for nearly four thousand years.   The sovereign nation of Israel was destroyed twice and established three times.  Despite the misguided opinions of some, Jews remain the chosen people of God as evidenced by the fulfillment of Ezekiel 37 and certified by the United Nations in May 1948.  Additionally Ezekiel 37 also predicted the ongoing aliyah or GATHERING of Jews to their traditional homeland, which is the primary basis of modern Zionism.

Even those who most loudly oppose Jewish settlements in Israel, the Muslim community, fail to acknowledge the will of Allah in this matter.   

And We made the people who were deemed weak to inherit the eastern lands and the western ones which We had blessed; and the good word of your Lord was fulfilled in the children of Israel because they bore up (sufferings) patiently; and We utterly destroyed what Firon (pharaoh) and his people had wrought and what they built.
- Qur’an 7.137

And when Musa (Moses) said to his people: O my people! remember the favor of Allah upon you when He raised prophets among you and made you kings and gave you what He had not given to any other among the nations. O my people! enter the holy land which Allah has prescribed for you and turn not on your backs for then you will turn back losers.
- Our’an 5.20-21

And We said to the Israelites after him: Dwell in the land: and when the promise of the next life shall come to pass, we will bring you both together in judgment.
- Qur’an 17.104

And.surely they purposed to unsettle you from the land that they might expel you from it, and in that case they will not tarry behind you but a little.
- Qur’an 17.76 (prophecy of attempts to remove Jews from Palestine)

It should be noted that opposition to Israeli claims to the land are more than mere statements of political support for Palestinian squatters.  They directly oppose the revealed will of God (or Allah).  

"I will bless those who bless you and curse those who curse you and in you all the families of the earth will be blessed." - Genesis 12:3

Those who oppose Israeli claims to the land, such as Christian churches in support of the BDS movement, as well as nations such as the United States, risk the wrath of God upon them.   For instance, since October 1991 there have been nearly sixty major disasters to strike the US mainland.  Each directly corresponds to attempts by US leadership to subvert the State of Israel by insisting upon "land for peace".  These disasters have resulted in financial loss, property damage and loss of life.   

God's intent for Israel is not a game.  God's will ought to be respected by the nations.  Failure to do so will result in judgment upon them.

Watch and learn, pilgrim.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...  

Edited by choir loft
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2 hours ago, choir loft said:

Royal Grant to Israel

The above image illustrates the borders of Israel that were originally promised to Abraham (Genesis 15 - circa 4k years ago) and specifically defined in Joshua 1:4 (3,300 years ago).

Current political anti-semitic bias contends that Jews have no right to the land (Eretz Israel) as a divinely certified homeland.   According to Biblical reference they've been living there for nearly four thousand years.   The sovereign nation of Israel was destroyed twice and established three times.  Despite the misguided opinions of some, Jews remain the chosen people of God as evidenced by the fulfillment of Ezekiel 37 and certified by the United Nations in May 1948.  Additionally Ezekiel 37 also predicted the ongoing aliyah or GATHERING of Jews to their traditional homeland, which is the primary basis of modern Zionism.

Even those who most loudly oppose Jewish settlements in Israel, the Muslim community, fail to acknowledge the will of Allah in this matter.   

And We made the people who were deemed weak to inherit the eastern lands and the western ones which We had blessed; and the good word of your Lord was fulfilled in the children of Israel because they bore up (sufferings) patiently; and We utterly destroyed what Firon (pharaoh) and his people had wrought and what they built.
- Qur’an 7.137

And when Musa (Moses) said to his people: O my people! remember the favor of Allah upon you when He raised prophets among you and made you kings and gave you what He had not given to any other among the nations. O my people! enter the holy land which Allah has prescribed for you and turn not on your backs for then you will turn back losers.
- Our’an 5.20-21

And We said to the Israelites after him: Dwell in the land: and when the promise of the next life shall come to pass, we will bring you both together in judgment.
- Qur’an 17.104

And.surely they purposed to unsettle you from the land that they might expel you from it, and in that case they will not tarry behind you but a little.
- Qur’an 17.76 (prophecy of attempts to remove Jews from Palestine)

It should be noted that opposition to Israeli claims to the land are more than mere statements of political support for Palestinian squatters.  They directly oppose the revealed will of God (or Allah).  

"I will bless those who bless you and curse those who curse you and in you all the families of the earth will be blessed." - Genesis 12:3

Those who oppose Israeli claims to the land, such as Christian churches in support of the BDS movement, as well as nations such as the United States, risk the wrath of God upon them.   For instance, since October 1991 there have been nearly sixty major disasters to strike the US mainland.  Each directly corresponds to attempts by US leadership to subvert the State of Israel by insisting upon "land for peace".  These disasters have resulted in financial loss, property damage and loss of life.   

God's intent for Israel is not a game.  God's will ought to be respected by the nations.  Failure to do so will result in judgment upon them.

Watch and learn, pilgrim.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...  

I take it,your not a christian or you dont understand exactly who the promised land was promised to.

According to Paul the promises made to Abrahams seed are promises made to Christ.

https://biblehub.com/galatians/3-16.htm

And according to Christ himself,that kingdom belongs to him.

https://biblehub.com/matthew/21-38.htm

Just because they have been tenants of that land does not make it thiers.Nor because they killed the heir is his possession thiers.

 

Only those in Christ are heirs to that kingdom and those in Christ will recieve it.

https://biblehub.com/galatians/3-29.htm

 

So there are actually very few in Israel that are heirs of the promised land.

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2 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

I take it,your not a christian or you dont understand exactly who the promised land was promised to.

According to Paul the promises made to Abrahams seed are promises made to Christ.

https://biblehub.com/galatians/3-16.htm

And according to Christ himself,that kingdom belongs to him.

https://biblehub.com/matthew/21-38.htm

Just because they have been tenants of that land does not make it thiers.Nor because they killed the heir is his possession thiers.

 

Only those in Christ are heirs to that kingdom and those in Christ will recieve it.

https://biblehub.com/galatians/3-29.htm

 

So there are actually very few in Israel that are heirs of the promised land.

8

Wow, I believe you just stepped into a mess with these comments. God never made a covenant with the church. He made a covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Juda. We should not boast, He cut off natural branches so that we may be grafted in. 

What the Jews are being brought back for is the time of Jacobs trouble. Not a blessing but a final ending of judgement for rejecting Messiah. And just as Josephs brothers did not recognize him the first time He will be revealed to the Jews the second and they will embrace, but judgement is coming. Early and later rain. The first rain was poured on the Jews and the last rain will be poured on the Jews. Replacement theology is wrong. The prophetic purposes for the Jews are somehow connected to the future history of the church. Somehow, but I do believe we need to be a people that bring the Jews to jealousy. A people that will stand in the face of tyranny for believing in the God of the Jews. Rahab comes to mind. If they had believed Moses they would have believed Jesus. 40 years ago a handful here and there of believing Jews lived in the land but today estimates are in the tens of thousands. 60 years ago you could find a Jewish family or one or two Jews in a Gentile congregation in any major city in America but today there are multiple Jewish congregations worshipping the Messiah Jesus. 

The age of the Gentiles is coming to a close.

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36 minutes ago, Zemke said:

Wow, I believe you just stepped into a mess with these comments. God never made a covenant with the church. He made a covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Juda. We should not boast, He cut off natural branches so that we may be grafted in. 

What the Jews are being brought back for is the time of Jacobs trouble. Not a blessing but a final ending of judgement for rejecting Messiah. And just as Josephs brothers did not recognize him the first time He will be revealed to the Jews the second and they will embrace, but judgement is coming. Early and later rain. The first rain was poured on the Jews and the last rain will be poured on the Jews. Replacement theology is wrong. The prophetic purposes for the Jews are somehow connected to the future history of the church. Somehow, but I do believe we need to be a people that bring the Jews to jealousy. A people that will stand in the face of tyranny for believing in the God of the Jews. Rahab comes to mind. If they had believed Moses they would have believed Jesus. 40 years ago a handful here and there of believing Jews lived in the land but today estimates are in the tens of thousands. 60 years ago you could find a Jewish family or one or two Jews in a Gentile congregation in any major city in America but today there are multiple Jewish congregations worshipping the Messiah Jesus. 

The age of the Gentiles is coming to a close.

Dont change the topic.

You claim the promised land is promised to anyone who call themselves Israel.

And you could not be more wrong.The Israeli goverment who claims authority over the land promised to Christ is not the heir to the promised land.It is also not the chosen goverment of God to rule over all Israel.

The promises made to Abrahams seed are made to Christ just as Paul states.

https://biblehub.com/galatians/3-16.htm

 

God did not promise it to anyone else.

 

 

Edited by Shilohsfoal

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2 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

Dont change the topic.

You claim the promised land is promised to anyone who call themselves Israel.

And you could not be more wrong.The Israeli goverment who claims authority over the land promised to Christ is not the heir to the promised land.It is also not the chosen goverment of God to rule over all Israel.

The promises made to Abrahams seed are made to Christ just as Paul states.

https://biblehub.com/galatians/3-16.htm

 

God did not promise it to anyone else.

 

 

6

What topic did I change?

And where did I claim the promised land is promised to anyone who calls themselves Israel?

If I have read something into what you have said you didn't intend then I apologise. But if I changed the topic how could I claim the very thing you are fighting against? That would be on topic.   

Edited by Zemke

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2 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

https://biblehub.com/zechariah/14-2.htm

 

When the beast and those nations take Jerusalem and the Israeli goverment is dead,and the Iaraeli women are being raped and murderd by those muslims,will you believe it was Gods will or will you believe it was not supposed to be that way?

6

Taking one verse and building a Muslim hoard taking Jerusalem as though that's the end of things for the Jews isn't wise. Read chapter 12 of Zechariah. We are told in Psalm 119, "The sum of thy word is truth." That's a lot of calculation and study. Prophecy of the coming of our Lord is more about justification for the lost and sanctification for those who believe. Peter tells us that knowing these things are to come upon the earth what manner of people should we be? And Peter also as he spoke to the lost sheep of Israel in Acts 2 said the sun will lose its shining and the moon turn to blood before that great and glorious day of the LORD come. Paul preached the gospel to the graybeards in Athens stating God is now calling on all peoples everywhere to repent and He has appointed a man to judge the world and He has verified that man by raising Him from the dead. Judgement, repentance, resurrection. Preaching about coming judgement is to provoke men to repent, not win speculation battles of who figured what and when. No one will be standing on that day saying "I told you so, how you feeling now?

You've gotten hold of a way to understand prophecy but "The sum of thy word is truth." 

As I said in a previous post, it will be a judgement and a horrid time for those in the land. No one said it will be something unlike what Zechariah said it would be like. You have a passion I give you that but you're slinging accusations that are unfounded and you need to be more clear on the doctrine that backs up your passion. Tying an application for our lives within the escatology as did the apostles is something we need to strive for otherwise all this is a moot point. Your passion is wonderful but it needs what we all need, more grounding in the word and not using the word to proof text a speculative idea.

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51 minutes ago, Zemke said:

What topic did I change?

And where did I claim the promised land is promised to anyone who calls themselves Israel?

If I have read something into what you have said you didn't intend then I apologise. But if I changed the topic how could I claim the very thing you are fighting against? That would be on topic.   

 

9 hours ago, choir loft said:

 

"I will bless those who bless you and curse those who curse you and in you all the families of the earth will be blessed." - Genesis 12:3

 

No one is blessed by the israeli goverment or its people.No one is blessed by God for blessing the Israeli goverment or its people.No one will be cursed by God for cursing the Israeli goverment or its people.

Being blessed has nothing to do with Benjamin Netanyahu.

 

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11 minutes ago, Zemke said:

Taking one verse and building a Muslim hoard taking Jerusalem as though that's the end of things for the Jews isn't wise. Read chapter 12 of Zechariah. We are told in Psalm 119, "The sum of thy word is truth." That's a lot of calculation and study. Prophecy of the coming of our Lord is more about justification for the lost and sanctification for those who believe. Peter tells us that knowing these things are to come upon the earth what manner of people should we be? And Peter also as he spoke to the lost sheep of Israel in Acts 2 said the sun will lose its shining and the moon turn to blood before that great and glorious day of the LORD come. Paul preached the gospel to the graybeards in Athens stating God is now calling on all peoples everywhere to repent and He has appointed a man to judge the world and He has verified that man by raising Him from the dead. Judgement, repentance, resurrection. Preaching about coming judgement is to provoke men to repent, not win speculation battles of who figured what and when. No one will be standing on that day saying "I told you so, how you feeling now?

You've gotten hold of a way to understand prophecy but "The sum of thy word is truth." 

As I said in a previous post, it will be a judgement and a horrid time for those in the land. No one said it will be something unlike what Zechariah said it would be like. You have a passion I give you that but you're slinging accusations that are unfounded and you need to be more clear on the doctrine that backs up your passion. Tying an application for our lives within the escatology as did the apostles is something we need to strive for otherwise all this is a moot point. Your passion is wonderful but it needs what we all need, more grounding in the word and not using the word to proof text a speculative idea.

Yes i know its not the end of Israel.

144,000 sealed out of millions.

What happens to the millions who believe they are Gods chosen people?

 

What did Jesus say would happen to those who do not believe?

Edited by Shilohsfoal

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9 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

Yes i know its not the end of Israel.

144,000 sealed out of millions.

What happens to the millions who believe they are Gods chosen people?

 

What did Jesus say would happen to those who do not believe?

2

If you're promoting the gospel being preached to the Jews and our witness or lives or ethics being placed on the altar for the purpose of becoming what God desires of His people to be then I'm with you and so are most I would think on this board. There are believers who have lifted up Jewishness to a point of creating two covenants running beside each other but I don't think that's a problem on this board either. Maybe it is and I don't see it but I'm still wondering what is the point you're trying to make? The OP seems, at this point anyway, to be reflecting the fulfilment of prophecy leading up to the end of the age and into the setting up of the reign of Messiah. But you seem to be arguing against the legitimacy of the Jews being in the land. Or even the Jewishness of the new covenant. God is not finished with the Jews, there is a latter rain. How these things will play out exactly is something only those who live thru it will know but we can look to the past to reflect and understand to a point things to come.    

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