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If God spoke to man... would you believe?


Tigger56

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7 minutes ago, Who me said:

If we are being obedient to Jesus's command we will not miss what Jesus wants from us.

The question we should be asking ourselves is. 'Are we being obedient?'

If we are we don't need dreams, vissions, words of knowledge etc.

Obedience is important. The Pharisees were being obedient unto God's law, but they were closed minded to anything else. They knew they were right and had no room for anything else and were defiant to anything that threatened the status quo.

As far as "we don't need dreams, visions, etc...."  Don't we?  Joel is a prophesy and is going to be for mankind. The Lord can speak to us in dreams, visions and in other ways as well such as from the Bible.  I am not at the point where I don't need this.

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Here's the problem with Joel 2:28-32.  No one reads Joel 2:12-27.

Joel 2:28 says "And AFTERWARD...".  OK.  After what?

  •  After Joel 2:12-17:  This describes a GREAT mourning over personal and corporate sin.  Literally the nation of Judah [and Israel] fasting, mourning, weeping, tearing their hearts [not their clothes], going through a national fasting, consecrating the entire assembly [not just the leadership], and the priest weeping and praying for the people.
  • After Joel 2:18-27:  This describes what happens AFTER the great and corporate repentance.  God heals the land. God makes them perfectly productive again.  The people are rejoicing IN God.  And the people KNOW that the LORD is their God.

THEN, the outpouring comes.

Joel 2:28-32 has been partially fulfilled already.  I didn't make that up and it's not my opinion.  God already said so through Peter in Acts 2.

Acts 2:14-21 = But Peter, standing with the eleven, lifted up his voice and addressed them: "Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and give ear to my words.  For these people are not drunk, as you suppose, since it is only the third hour of the day.  But this is what was uttered through the prophet Joel. 'And in the last days it shall be, God declares, that I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh, and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy...….." [and he goes on to quote the entire passage from Joel]

Peter and Paul both had visions.  Cornelius had visions.  The daughters of Philip prophesied.  There were great signs and wonders during this time.  People were repenting and coming to Christ by the literal hundreds of thousands - all across the known world - and wherever the Word was spread.

I don't see it happening today.  

  •  We have the entire word of God.  Those people did not.
  •  I don't see any nations, let alone churches or individual people, weeping and fasting over their sins.  I don't see Christian leadership begging God to forgive the people.
  • I don't see God bringing restoration as in Joel 2.

Perhaps this will happen again.  I believe it will.  But now?  

No.  There are far too many Christians who spend Sunday morning singing "Oh, How I Love Jesus" in church and spend Sunday night watching Game of Thrones on HBO.

On Monday morning, I can guarantee you that they are not thinking about Sunday morning's sermon, but can recall with clarity every homosexual/heterosexual sex scene, every rape/incest scene, every scene with a nude woman, every grotesquely violent scene, and every use of the "f" word and "c" word.  [No, I have not seen it, but have read several reviews both pro and con.  Why?  Because I have Christian friends by the dozens who never miss an episode.]

No, our weeping and mourning has not occurred yet.  

 

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On 4/24/2019 at 10:54 AM, Tigger56 said:

In Joel 2:28 - 29,  If this happened somewhere other than your own church?  If this happened within a church of different doctrinal beliefs than yours but still believed in Jesus?  Is this happened in your lifetime along with other signs... If God started to speak once more through an unknown person to you?   Would you believe?  I pray Jeremiah 33:3,  when you become aware of mighty things.... what would it take for you to believe?  What will it take for me to believe?  I hope people will truly think about this...  what would the barriers be?  What would our tests be to see if it is of God?  Would we even think about it if it came from a church other than our own?  I believe we are in the end time, but when all of it starts and let's say it starts first through one man or one church other than our own ..... would we believe?

:th_praying: this is something to pray about.

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19 hours ago, Jayne said:

Here's the problem with Joel 2:28-32.  No one reads Joel 2:12-27.

Joel 2:28 says "And AFTERWARD...".  OK.  After what?

  •  After Joel 2:12-17:  This describes a GREAT mourning over personal and corporate sin.  Literally the nation of Judah [and Israel] fasting, mourning, weeping, tearing their hearts [not their clothes], going through a national fasting, consecrating the entire assembly [not just the leadership], and the priest weeping and praying for the people.
  • After Joel 2:18-27:  This describes what happens AFTER the great and corporate repentance.  God heals the land. God makes them perfectly productive again.  The people are rejoicing IN God.  And the people KNOW that the LORD is their God.

THEN, the outpouring comes.

Joel 2:28-32 has been partially fulfilled already.  I didn't make that up and it's not my opinion.  God already said so through Peter in Acts 2.

Acts 2:14-21 = But Peter, standing with the eleven, lifted up his voice and addressed them: "Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and give ear to my words.  For these people are not drunk, as you suppose, since it is only the third hour of the day.  But this is what was uttered through the prophet Joel. 'And in the last days it shall be, God declares, that I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh, and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy...….." [and he goes on to quote the entire passage from Joel]

Peter and Paul both had visions.  Cornelius had visions.  The daughters of Philip prophesied.  There were great signs and wonders during this time.  People were repenting and coming to Christ by the literal hundreds of thousands - all across the known world - and wherever the Word was spread.

I don't see it happening today.  

  •  We have the entire word of God.  Those people did not.
  •  I don't see any nations, let alone churches or individual people, weeping and fasting over their sins.  I don't see Christian leadership begging God to forgive the people.
  • I don't see God bringing restoration as in Joel 2.

Perhaps this will happen again.  I believe it will.  But now?  

No.  There are far too many Christians who spend Sunday morning singing "Oh, How I Love Jesus" in church and spend Sunday night watching Game of Thrones on HBO.

On Monday morning, I can guarantee you that they are not thinking about Sunday morning's sermon, but can recall with clarity every homosexual/heterosexual sex scene, every rape/incest scene, every scene with a nude woman, every grotesquely violent scene, and every use of the "f" word and "c" word.  [No, I have not seen it, but have read several reviews both pro and con.  Why?  Because I have Christian friends by the dozens who never miss an episode.]

No, our weeping and mourning has not occurred yet.  

 

I agree this has been partially fulfilled. I feel there will be a time of revival and a lot of it will be due to the hard times that lie ahead. Israel means far more than just the nation of Israel today. Israel (all twelve tribes) are scattered throughout the nations. There will be a time of repentance. We see the events on the horizon. As stated many Christians will worship in church and then do things they shouldn't the rest of the week. Many believe in "situational ethics" and do not stand for absolute truths. Many don't even know what truth is. The message of our Lord will go forth and it will be accompanied with miracles. But the original question... when then happens (not if) will you automatically refuse it because it doesn't fit to your set opinions or if it comes from a church other than your own?  If you don't believe any of it will happen then the questions don't apply to you.

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On 4/24/2019 at 3:54 PM, Tigger56 said:

..... would we believe?

Shalom Tigger56

Great OP question.

I would like to think I would believe but part of me is worried I would be to cynical!  This may be an intentional plan of the enemy: Over-saturate the church with false prophets and false workers, so that the real miracles are drowned out.

However, a part of me likes to think that I might listen, if I heard His voice in a prophetic word given.  His sheep do know His voice.  But I, personally (so no one get offended), would have a problem if the prophet didn't come in the Name of YHWH, and instead said "Thus saith the LORD...".  From my understanding of the Bible, the Father always proclaims His Name, even to non-believers, when speaking prophecy.  So that we know who predicted such things and can glorify His Name, including non-believers.  We are told this will happen one day worldwide when "Every knee shall bow...".  Therefore, I don't think the Father would change His ways in the 21st century for the benefit of KJV readers or familiarity sake. That's just my opinion though, so thankfully no one needs to get upset.

Great thought provoking post Tigger. It's interesting topics like this which keep me coming back for more!

Love & Shalom

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If God spoke to man... would you believe?

 

I do.

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7 hours ago, Tigger56 said:

The message of our Lord will go forth and it will be accompanied with miracles. But the original question... when then happens (not if) will you automatically refuse it because it doesn't fit to your set opinions or if it comes from a church other than your own?  If you don't believe any of it will happen then the questions don't apply to you.

"If" this were to happen in my lifetime - a national repentance and God healing the nations, whatever would be prophesied would have to line up with the Word of God for me to believe it.  If it contrasted the Word of God - I would not believe it - and yes, automatically.

My "set of opinions" are worth about as much as hippo dung.

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