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I need to get this right! LGBT


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I have told my oldest and dearest friend that I have found Jesus and have started reading the Bible. She was accepting but made it clear that she has no time for the Bible due to its teaching on gay people.

My friend has a much loved sibling who is gay (possibly early stage transgender). I love my friend dearly, and have known the sibling since they were a baby (aged 20 now).

How on earth do I get this right? I want to honour God but absolutely want to be very careful in how I respond. This lady has been my friend for 20 years, been with me through thick and thin and I really want to respond to this as thoughtfully as possible.

Help!

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Well, for now I would "love your neighbor as yourself."  Of course, we don't believe that lifestyle is right, but we can still be loving towards all people.   Do unto others as you would have others do unto you.   Pray for them.   Let your light shine.   Hopefully they will come to know Jesus, too, in the future.

I hope you find a loving, Bible teaching church where you can be supported in your faith.

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4 hours ago, Thewhitedove said:

I have told my oldest and dearest friend that I have found Jesus and have started reading the Bible. She was accepting but made it clear that she has no time for the Bible due to its teaching on gay people.

My friend has a much loved sibling who is gay (possibly early stage transgender). I love my friend dearly, and have known the sibling since they were a baby (aged 20 now).

How on earth do I get this right? I want to honour God but absolutely want to be very careful in how I respond. This lady has been my friend for 20 years, been with me through thick and thin and I really want to respond to this as thoughtfully as possible.

Help!

How often do the two of you talk about lgbt issues?

May I suggest that you learn what you believe about Christianity and let your friend raise any issues.

A basic question to ask is. 'Why do you believe that? and What evidence do you have for that?

Be sure that you can answer those questions for what you believe.

 

A couple of useful site:-

coldcasechristianity, reasonablefaith and answersingenesis ( you don't have to be a young earth creationist, because they believe what the bible says they have many articles covering many subjects, written from the bible is true view. )

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Jesus dined with sinners. It was a complaint his "non-followers" had about him. He never accepted nor condoned their sin, however. Not even the woman at the well. 

That's the attitude I take. But I take it with the understanding that we are all sinners and "let him who has not sinned cast the first stone." We are admonished to not associate with overt sinners - when they are members of the church. Regarding this friend, when I'm in such a situation, I make clear what I see as sin and then we talk about other stuff. But whenever it comes up, I make clear what I see as sin.

It's that simple. 

BTW, I see claiming to be transgender the same as claiming to be Napoleon. It is a mental defect. It may have been created by giving into lust, making it insatiable, but it is a mental defect, nonetheless, and very likely to end in suicide (40% chance), if not cured. And I don't mean physical surgery. 

 

Edited by Still Alive
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Hate the sin, and not the sinner my friend. Find support in believers around ya, and keep praying for your friend. God bless!

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Hi White Dove,

as my last thread on what I would call homophobic remarks on Worthy ended here, I don't want make potential homophobic remarks within this thread a topic again now.

But let me share some thought on this one:

On 4/25/2019 at 8:15 AM, Thewhitedove said:

she has no time for the Bible due to its teaching on gay people

It seems that she strongly disagrees with something she finds in the Bible. I had someone within my family saying "the Bible says it, I disagree with it!"

Let go. This is at least my advice.

Bible should always be the authority, and in this case she frankly rejects Bible as such. So you would have to discuss whether Bible can be an authority or not.... and this is not a good place to start, in my view.

There are so many seekers out there who are unsure, so please save your energy for situations that are more promising. In Germany, for instance, we don't have enough workers to edify new people in thier faith, for instance.

Moreover, evangelisation as I see it is team sports and you seem to be the only Christian reaching out to her?

Anyway, congrats that you found your way to the Bible.

Thomas

 

 

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On 4/25/2019 at 7:15 AM, Thewhitedove said:

I have told my oldest and dearest friend that I have found Jesus and have started reading the Bible. She was accepting but made it clear that she has no time for the Bible due to its teaching on gay people.

My friend has a much loved sibling who is gay (possibly early stage transgender). I love my friend dearly, and have known the sibling since they were a baby (aged 20 now).

How on earth do I get this right? I want to honour God but absolutely want to be very careful in how I respond. This lady has been my friend for 20 years, been with me through thick and thin and I really want to respond to this as thoughtfully as possible.

Help!

Shalom Thewhitedove,

Tricky situation, I can see why you feel the pressure!

First of all, praise Yahweh that you have recently found Jesus! Fantastic news.  Also fantastic news that you are getting stuck into the Bible! I personally feel reading the Bible from end-to-end, at least twice, should be the first great task every Disciple should undertake.

Secondly, what to do about this situation. Let me explain my opinion as briefly as possible.

Your friend feels either afraid to believe the Bible or angry with it, because of her sibling. The implications of accepting the Bible as true means that her loved sibling is in jeopardy or seen as a "terrible sinner".  The way to tackle this matter is to understand this commandment in the Bible, within context.

Homosexuality is wrong, as correctly understood from the Bible. However, it's not the MAIN sin. It's just ONE type of sin.  There is an assumption, from some homosexuals, that if it wasn't for their sexual orientation, they'd be fine.  That's not necessarily the case!  For if any type of behaviour, sexual or spiritual, is more important than Yahweh, you've messed up.  Therefore, homosexuality or heterosexual promiscuity can be seen as the very same thing in that regard.  

If a person refuses to give up a lifestyle, practice or pattern of behaviour, that is against the Father's ways, they cannot call him their "God".  Something else comes first which the person desires more, so how can we not expect God to give them over to that something.

Therefore, homosexuality is no more of a sin than any other practice that is against the Father's ways.  It's not the BIG sin.  It's not the WORSE sin.  It's ONE type of sin (in Hebrew the word sin means "miss").  However, because most people who are heterosexual find the homosexual practices contrary to their tastes, this sin gets shouted about venomously.  It can be pushed a bit too violently from homophobic believers. 

Why then does the Bible say the sin is an abomination to the Father? Well, sexual sin is the only sin we commit against ourselves, with all others being against our neighbour or Yahweh. This particular sin involves two parties joining together to sin against themselves and in a way contrary to Creation.  It is not a small matter to the Father, even though it may be in the eyes of "wise humans".  But this word for "abomination" is also used to describe how the Egyptians saw shepherds, other sexual activities like incest or with animals, worshiping idols, unclean foods, unworthy offerings, witchcraft, consulting mediums, cross dressing, remarrying an ex after they have married and divorced another, and using unjust measures. 

Anyway, if anyone comes to Yahweh and says "you are my God, but I can't give up this for you" they are in the same boat as a homosexual, an idol worshiper, a compulsive liar, the prideful and the selfish.  A heterosexual should come with the same dedication of being willing to become a "eunuch" for the sake of the Kingdom, just as a homosexual should come saying that they will lay down their desires for Kingdom.  To not do so is to testify that "something" means more to you than your very own Creator.

Hopefully, if you understand my mindset, this gives you a direction for the conversation.  The real issue is not "God doesn't like gays".  The real issue is "God doesn't want anything before Him".  

It is tough for those who feel that they have be born homosexual, because they have to consider lay down a big side of them.  If it's just sexual attraction then in a way that's easier but, if it's a lifestyle as well, it will be a lot harder.  "Gay Pride" is a statement that should be one of concern, principally for the word "Pride" in the title.  Any life choice with pride filling it, is a hard choice to suddenly leave.  

It's probably superfluous to write, but tenderness, compassion, and patience will be needed in your reply to your friend.  Don't compromise the Word or divide it as "old and new testament God". You and the Word will lose respect in her sight if you do this.  Speak with a peaceful heart towards her on the matter, not getting angry or interrupting.  You may play just the first stage in the change in her sibling, so you might not know anything about it for years. Therefore, stand strong on what the Word says happily and joyfully.  Your friend and her sibling can join you at anytime if they laid down what they held above God - and if they are called, they will.  So, show them a bright example of love, gentleness, understanding and tolerance and these will be your best points in your debate.

I hope some of the above helps.

Love & Shalom  

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Hate the sin, not the sinner. I like to think of it as "they would be such a good person if only they stopped ______..." and that applies to myself as well. I wish I wasn't rather quick to anger; i'd be better if I could keep my cool. I wish my eyes didn't wander; women deserve better and are worth more than that. It's not the homosexual themselves; they would be wonderful if they turned away from it.

I'd also reinforce the idea that homosexuality is but A sin, and sin applies to everyone, not just gay people. Not the greatest nor least. The confusion surrounding this issue is rather strong, however. It's just two consenting adults; it's not kids or animals or something. Who does it hurt? Why is it wrong?

If two adults consent to kill another, to lay in wait for someone to gut, does that make it okay? It does not matter this thing or that thing, because at it's roots, it is sin all the same. Things are rather simple, it's just that people are complicated and thus likewise complicate things. No life springs from such a union. Nothing is gained from it other than temporal pleasure, a fleeting joy. If one even thinks in terms of nature, it makes no sense for it to be "natural," and even then, natural does not mean "good". Would you wiggle your digits in front of a snapping turtle's face? Would you sit on a giant venus flytrap? Perhaps take a jaunt and play about in a field of wolf's bane? If a male dog mounts a male dog, it is a matter of domination, of being the alpha male; it is not proof nor reinforcement of such a sin. If we were animals, we would live in the woods and just poop wherever... Humans are humans; whilst technically animals, we are above the animals.

It hurts those who do it. Are STDs more common amongst straight people or homosexuals? The anal cavity was not meant for such a thing; why must they use so much lubrication, and even then, why do their back ends bleed sometimes? They engage in sin, and sin is death. They dig their own grave. They hurt themselves. That is why it is wrong.

Likewise, because the confusion is so strong, don't be surprised if this friend refuses you. I know it sucks to lose someone you care about, but who is of more importance, your friend or God? We could all be such lovely people, all be friends, if only they stopped denying God. I've kind of gone on for a minute and I apologize; the other commenters have covered everything else well.

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Thank you so much for all of the responses to this. It has been very enlightening.

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On 4/25/2019 at 7:15 AM, Thewhitedove said:

I have told my oldest and dearest friend that I have found Jesus and have started reading the Bible. She was accepting but made it clear that she has no time for the Bible due to its teaching on gay people.

My friend has a much loved sibling who is gay (possibly early stage transgender). I love my friend dearly, and have known the sibling since they were a baby (aged 20 now).

How on earth do I get this right? I want to honour God but absolutely want to be very careful in how I respond. This lady has been my friend for 20 years, been with me through thick and thin and I really want to respond to this as thoughtfully as possible.

Help!

You cant confront the Gay person who is transitioning in a normal way but you can bring a good observation on the matter. The first sentence contradicts itself. She started reading the bible, but doesnt have time for it. I think she is lying to you. All you can do is offer advice and mentality support to the transgender, you cannot force them to make a choice.

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