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Questions about Noahs Flood (is it logical or just magic you have to believe)


Leyla

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1 hour ago, Jayne said:

God and magic cannot be compared.

God is supernatural because he is not a created thing.  He is sovereign, holy, all-present, all-knowledge, and all-powerful.  He is good and everything he does is good and holy.

Magic is not real - in terms of humans being able to control nature and the spiritual realm.  For those that practice it - modern day witches like Wiccans and such - demonic forces can come into play and demons are definitely real and can do real things.  And it's never for good.  Demons are under the control of the devil, ergo, any dabbling in magic will only end badly.  The bible says to stay away from things that that.  Magic did not create the world and magic did not cause nor control the flood.

How do you know that the supernatural God is real, but magic is not real? What methods did you use to determine that magic is not real and what methods did you use to determine that God is supernatural and real.

1 hour ago, Joulre2abba said:

They lived a farm life, so they always had food stored up and fertilizers to use for composting all the time. We in our modern lives go every week to buy our groceries. We don't store up any food. What they do on a regular basis looks to us like a daunting task.

I doubt that any farmer stores enough food to feed every species on earth and enough fertilizers to repopulate and regrow the world after a global catastrophe.  Í just googled that one elefant alone needs 250 000 kilocalories a day, that is around 200 kilogram of leafs, grass etc. What kind of farmer stores so much that they can  feed EVERY species?

 

1 hour ago, Joulre2abba said:

There's also the matter of God's blessing to multiply their vegetables that they had. We read of Isaac who planted seed and received a full harvest that was exceptional during famine. We also see the multiplying of food by Jesus when he had just five loaves and two fish, enough to feed thousands of people.

If the answer to impossible things in the bible is magic or something supernatural, then it means that the flood story is illogical and many other stories are illogical.

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18 minutes ago, Leyla said:

How do you know that the supernatural God is real, but magic is not real? What methods did you use to determine that magic is not real and what methods did you use to determine that God is supernatural and real.

What methods did I use?  I read the Bible.

I.  Humanity cannot perform magic unless it is an illusion to trick others like sleight of hand.  Why can't humanity perform magic that involves real power? Why is it not real for humans?  Because there are only two sources of supernatural power - God, the only true source and the devil, for whom God has given limited power for a limited time.  For humans, all by themselves, supernatural powers are not in them because they are not supernatural creatures.  We are natural creatures in a body of flesh.

 

2.  Occultic magic is of the devil.  God hates it.

  •  The Bible says that King Saul died because he was unfaithful to God and because he consulted a witch to help him speak to the dead.  1 Chronicle 10:13
  •  The Bible says even our rebellion against God is so bad that it is as bad as the sin of divination [trying to use magical/witchlike ways to control your environment]. 1 Samuel 15:23
  •  The Bible says that King Manasseh was very evil:  He practice witchcraft, divination, tried to speak to the dead, he burned his own children in sacrifice to demonic gods, and looked for omens in things.  2 Chronicles 33:5  Verse 1 says that all of this was evil in God's sight.
  •  The Bible says that God told his people [and us], "Do NOT seek out mediums and spiritists.  You will be defiled by them. I am the LORD your God."  Leviticus 19:31
  •  The Bible says that the slave girl who was being forced to tell the future for the monetary gain of her owners was only able to do so because of demons.  The Apostle Paul cast the demon out of her and she was not able to tell fortunes again.  Acts 16:16-20

 

Leyla, magic is only of the devil and never for good.  Humans cannot perform magic.  Card tricks and illusions are not magic - it's just tricks of the eye.  But when humans begin dabbling in the occult, demonic forces can act through a human.  And this is why God hate it.

I don't know what else I can tell you.

Maybe someone can do a better job than me.  I seem to only upset you.

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36 minutes ago, Leyla said:

I doubt that any farmer stores enough food to feed every species on earth and enough fertilizers to repopulate and regrow the world after a global catastrophe. 

Your exaggerations are unfounded. It was not "every species on Earth". It was two, and seven out of those variety animals alive at that time.

And as I explained in speculation that the gardening aspect of repotting existing plants in the speculated garden-bins onboard the ark would produce enough grains, and vegetables. While the animals would speculatively produce eggs and milk.

That would sufficiently feed animals of a young age. But indeed it would be unlikely enough to feed fully grown adult animals, as I suppose you were thinking that they were.

The fertilizer was not used to repopulate and regrow the world after the flood. The dirt was there, full of mixed nutrients from all of the dead animals bodies due to the flood.

36 minutes ago, Leyla said:

Í just googled that one elefant alone needs 250 000 kilocalories a day, that is around 200 kilogram of leafs, grass etc. What kind of farmer stores so much that they can  feed EVERY species?

As I said, you were thinking that the animals on the ark were all fully mature.

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29 minutes ago, Jayne said:

 

I.  Humanity cannot perform magic unless it is an illusion to trick others like sleight of hand.  Why can't humanity perform magic that involves real power? Why is it not real for humans?  Because there are only two sources of supernatural power - God, the only true source and the devil, for whom God has given limited power for a limited time.  For humans, all by themselves, supernatural powers are not in them because they are not supernatural creatures.  We are natural creatures in a body of flesh.

We dont have evidence that humans can perform magic. We also dont have evidence that a God can perform something supernatural. The bible tells us many things, but is the bible really sufficient? Can we believe everything in the bible or only some parts?  Do we have any reason to think that its the complete word of God? How can I get in contact with the devil to gain power? My soul is worth the experiment to discover, if you can gain power from something supernatural or magical like the devil

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Leyla said:

We dont have evidence that humans can perform magic. We also dont have evidence that a God can perform something supernatural. The bible tells us many things, but is the bible really sufficient? Can we believe everything in the bible or only some parts?  Do we have any reason to think that its the complete word of God? How can I get in contact with the devil to gain power? My soul is worth the experiment to discover, if you can gain power from something supernatural or magical like the devil

 

 

My dear, I am bowing out of this conversation.  

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Just now, Godismyloveforever said:

God created the universe and all there is from nothing. This would have been quite simple for Him.

Is the God  that created the universe Yachweh, or Allah, or Wischnu or one of the other many Gods from different religions? What if its a God that created the universe but never intervened in it, and never cared about the life in this creation? What if the creator of our universe is not God but just a really powerful creature? Do we have any reason to assume that the creator of the universe is our God, the God of the bible?

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Just now, Godismyloveforever said:

There is only one God no matter what name you give him. No matter what language you use. Because of your interest in Christianity you should go with that one for now.  ask him to reveal to you the answer to your questions one way or another.

People ask their God and come to different conclusions, for example with all the different denominations and sects and even people among the same church group, often have a different understanding of God. Thats why I strongly assume, that asking God is not a way to find acurate answers.

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On 5/1/2019 at 1:30 PM, Who me said:

Startling evidence for Noahs Flood - creation.com

 
 
The creationist post-Flood dam-breach hypothesis origin for the Grand ... Brown1 tries to use this as evidence for a dam-breach theory, but a more logical ...

 

Basically the question in this link is : Where did the sand / rock in the grand canyon come from? Must be the flood!      " https://www.bobspixels.com/kaibab.org/geology/gc_geol.htm  "         The North American Plate is moving west and is colliding the Pacific Plate which is moving towards the northwest. The Pacific Plate is also expanding from its middle and its eastern edge is being subducted beneath the North American Plate as it comes into contact with it. Oceanic plates are typically subducted beneath continental plates because they area heavier. As pressure increases while they are being subducted they tend to get heavier still and to some extent they start to fall and pull more plate along with them. As the Pacific Plate moves beneath the North American Plate the rock of which it is composed is superheated and water is released and begins to rise. This water, which is extremely hot, causes lighter minerals tomelt and forms lava which feeds the chain of volcanoes on the eastern edge of the Pacific Rim which runs from Alaska to Chile. The conflict between the plates is also frequently responsible for mountain building activity. As the plates are forced together they sometimes buckle which causes mountain ranges to be formed along the contact point. This is how the Rocky Mountains, the Sierra Nevada and the costal mountains of California were formed and how the Aleutian Island are being formed today. A much older range of mountains, which geologists suspect were much higher than todays Rocky Mountains and may even have rivaled the Himalayas, now forms the base of the Grand Canyon. The rocks that made up these mountains are about 1.7 billion years old, or about one-third the age of our planet. These mountains have long since eroded away and sedimentary deposits have covered them over. The sediments that covered the roots of these ancient mountains were deposited by a series of advancing and retreating ocean coast lines. As the climate of our planet warms and cools the median sea level of the planet rises and falls due to the melting and freezing of the polar caps. When the sea level rises, land areas which are close to the coast and relatively low in altitude are sometimes submerged. This was the case with the land area of the Grand Canyon and is why so many different sedimentary rock layers exist. Each of these was formed by a different period in which the ocean moved in and covered the land, stayed for a while, and then retreated again. Limestone deposits are created when the ocean moves in and slates, shales and mudstone deposits are created when the ocean moves out and the area is covered by silts washing into the retreating ocean. plate.jpg.52d4ceb80ca9f67cdff0192fc63a3587.jpg

 

On 5/1/2019 at 1:30 PM, Who me said:
 
 
 
Apr 14, 2009 ... Their main problem was that they were looking for a modern environment that corresponds with the evidence but Noah's Flood was a unique ... 
 
 
However, Scripture (backed up by so much other evidence) is very clear that there was a global Flood and the pre-Flood people were destroyed, so there must ...
 
 

The first article, tells us that fossils formed because the flood quickly covered a dinosaur herd and thats why we got lots of fossils. The second article tells us that there are no fossils, because the fast currents and oxidation would destroy the bones.

 

On 5/1/2019 at 1:30 PM, Who me said:

  https://creation.com/Robert-Ballard-did-not-discover-Noahs-Flood           This article points to how Robert Ballard did NOT confirm noahs flood, on the same website (creation.com)

 

On 5/1/2019 at 1:30 PM, Who me said:
 
 
Creationists have claimed that the geology of Australia's Three Sisters, provides compelling evidence for the global Flood of Noah,1 a claim that a recent article ...
 
 
 
The 'Great Unconformity' and associated geochemical evidence for Noahic Flood ... The Bible's Flood account describes the greatest rain event ever recorded.
 
 
 
The valleys and gorges, shaped when the Sisters were carved, are evidence of immense watery erosion. The Biblical global Flood explains this deposition and ...
 
 
 
Is there any evidence for a global flood? ... the field of geomorphology are called landforms. Geomorphology is a 'gold mine' of evidence for the Genesis Flood.
 
 
 
Oct 19, 2018 ... The Missoula Flood provides further evidence that floods produce inselbergs, and that erosion has to be rapid or there would be no inselbergs.
 
 
 
 
Hundreds of pieces of evidence support this flood, but it was rejected for 40 years by all but J. Harlen Bretz because such a flood was deemed too 'biblical'.1.
 
 
 
However, a close analysis of this evidence suggests that it raises more questions than it answers, supporting the idea that the end of the Flood corresponds to ...
 
 
 
Coal points to Noah's Flood because huge quantities of vegetation have been ... They are committed, from the outset, to explaining the evidence using what we ...
 
 
 
 
Golden evidence of the Genesis Flood. by Jack Lange. Jack Lange holding gold- bearing quartz. Most people would be surprised to learn that smooth ...
 

The rest are related to earth surface, mountains erosions etc. However before we even continue to talk about earths geology we have to realise, what consequence a flood would have. I calculated previously, that the total amount of water had to increase by atleast 215%. Now lets imagine the pressure that would apply on one square meter of the earth, if all the water would press on it . Genesis 7:20 "The waters rose and covered the mountains to a depth of more than fifteen cubits. ".   15 cubits is 6,85 meter. The mount everest is 8 848 m tall. That means 6,85 + 8,848= 8854,85 m.  Now lets imagine a 1meter * 1 meter * 8854,85 cuboid. The volume of that cuboid is 1*1*=8854,85 m³. M = 1000kg/m³ * 8854,85 m³ = 8854850 kg. That means that !!one!! square meter of the earth, experienced the pressure of 8854850 kg. We basically had big and heavy mountains pressing on the surface of the earth, everywhere. Such a huge pressure, would leave way more obvious and visible evidence, than what you gave me in your links.

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On 5/7/2019 at 7:08 PM, Leyla said:

People ask their God and come to different conclusions, for example with all the different denominations and sects and even people among the same church group, often have a different understanding of God. Thats why I strongly assume, that asking God is not a way to find acurate answers.

   That's because many people don't know God. If a person doesn't know God and they ask Him for clarification or knowledge about something (and they truly are seeking to get to know God), then they will get their answer eventually - usually, when they come to know God.

   If a person already has a relationship w/ God, then asking Him is like asking one's Best Friend (Who happens to know everything); it's the only perfect way to get answers that are 100% accurate.

   This, at least, is in my experience - I respect your right to have your own opinion.

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5 minutes ago, Co - heir in Christ said:

   That's because many people don't know God. If a person doesn't know God and they ask Him for clarification or knowledge about something (and they truly are seeking to get to know God), then they will get their answer eventually - usually, when they come to know God.

   If a person already has a relationship w/ God, then asking Him is like asking one's Best Friend (Who happens to know everything); it's the only perfect way to get answers that are 100% accurate.

   This, at least, is in my experience - I respect your right to have your own opinion.

What method can we use, to determine what is a real relationship with God and what is not? To discover what is true and what is false

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