What Happens When you Die?

[Worship Warriors]

Hey, Hell is a real place. Jesus went to hell, the lowest part of hell ( read Psalm 22). Sin had been imputed to him. Then God raised him up because he was a righteous man.  he descended into hell, the lowest part of it . In Ephesians, you cant have an ascend unless you have a descend.

when I first got save, the Holy spirit gave me a vision of how Jesus literally pull me out of hell. I saw snakes  and the worst places ever possible . I stated sobbing and sobbing . what manner of love would fight so tenaciously for me. He DID it for me so that I don't have to go there

 

[Retrobyter]

21 hours ago, Robert.A said:

If that was true then Jesus deceived with his words. He didnt say , "You will die and when you awake you will be with me in Paradise, " No his words were chosen as they are true, "TODAY" this is a specific time. Not "oh by the way for the next few thousad years you will sleep , but hey hey you wont know" this isnt the matrix movie.

And as you like to use the Root words from Greek

sēmeron
on the (i.e. this) day (or night current or just passed)
Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary.

Shalom, Robert.A.

Actually, if Yeshua` had said "You will die and when you awake you will be with me in Paradise," or "oh by the way for the next few thousand years you will sleep," but - hey hey - you won't know," THEN He WOULD have been deceiving the thief, worrying him for NOTHING! It wasn't time to complicate matters, leaving him with many questions; it was time to reassure him that he would be with Yeshua` that very day.

And, "sēmeron" does indeed mean "THIS day," not "TO-day."

 

[BibleStudent100]

Satan’s lies about the dead slander Jehovah. Those lies include the false teaching that the dead suffer fiery torment. Such teachings slander God! How so? In effect, they attribute to him, the God of love, the personality of the Devil. (1 John 4:8) How does that make you feel? More important, how does it make Jehovah feel? After all, he hates all forms of cruelty.—Read Jeremiah 19:5.

 

Satan’s lies about death undermine belief in Christ’s ransom sacrifice. (Matt. 20:28) Another satanic lie is that humans have an immortal soul. If that were true, everyone would live forever. Christ would not have had to give his life as a ransom for us to gain everlasting life. Keep in mind that Christ’s sacrifice is the greatest expression of love ever shown to the human family. (Read John 3:16;15:13.) Imagine how Jehovah and his Son must feel about teachings that undermine that precious gift!

 

Satan’s lies add grief and suffering to mankind. Parents who are grieving the death of a child may be told that God has taken the child, perhaps to be an angel in heaven. Does this satanic lie lessen their pain or add to it? The false teaching of hellfire has been used to justify torture, including the burning at the stake of those who opposed church teachings. According to a book on the Spanish Inquisition, some of those responsible for this cruelty may have believed that they were only giving heretics “a taste of what perpetual hellfire would be like” so that they would repent before dying and be saved from hellfire. In a number of lands, people feel compelled to pay homage to their dead ancestors, to honor them, or to seek a blessing from them. Others want to appease their ancestors in order to avoid some form of punishment. Sadly, beliefs based on satanic lies do not bring genuine comfort. Instead, they cause needless anxiety or even fear.

[Retrobyter]

On 6/30/2019 at 11:27 PM, Jostler said:

The story of Lazarus told beginning  in Luke 16:20 gives some pretty strong support to your position.  Jesus went  to Hades and evidently at that time  there was a place VISIBLE from Hades where the righteous dead were "comforted" in the bosom of Abraham.  The thief would have been taken there, while Jesus' suffering  all that death means for our sake would logically have been observable to the thief.

Shalom, Jostler, and Happy Independence Day.

No, this is a common misconception about that PROPHETIC PARABLE found in Luke 16. The rich man found himself in the results of judgment! Every person receives a sentencing AFTER the verdict of a trial! Don't you find it odd in this teaching that this man was sentenced to burning in the fire BEFORE the Great White Throne Judgment?!

"Hadees," spelled in Greek "alpha-delta-eta-stigma" with the rough breathing on the alpha, means the "Unseen!" It's not a PLACE to which one goes; it's a TIME never before witnessed!

Yeshua` suffered what He needed to suffer ON THE CROSS! He didn't suffer further in some place called "Hell!" When He said, "It is finished," the translation of what He said was the Greek word "Tetelestai," used to stamp "PAID IN FULL" on bills!

In Gethsemane, He called God His "Father" when He said, "O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me" (Matt. 26:39); on the cross before the darkness, He said, "Father, forgive them for they know not what they do" (Luke 23:34); the darkness ensued at the sixth hour (Matt. 27:45), three hours later at the ninth hour, He cried "Eliy! Eliy! Lama sabachtaniy?" which means "My God! My God! Why have-you-forsaken-me?" (Matt. 27:46); then before He died, He cried, "Tetelestai," "It is paid in full!"; and at the end, He said, "Father, into thy hands I commend my breath," and "breathed His last," dying.

Yesha`yahu ("Isaiah") said in prophesying,

Isaiah 53:3-11 (KJV)

3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD (Yeshua`s Father) hath laid on him (Yeshua`) the iniquity of us all.

7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.

8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.

10 Yet it pleased the LORD (YHWH) to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul (His air-breather) an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul (His air-breather), and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

Paul also added these words in 2 Corinthians 5:

2 Corinthians 5:17-21 (KJV)

17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. 18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ (who Himself traded places with us through Yeshua` the Messiah), and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation (the service of trading places); 19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself (God was in the Messiah, Himself trading places with the world), not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation (the message about trading places).

20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God (we beg you on the Messiah's behalf, trade places with God). 21 For he (God) hath made him (the Messiah) to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him (in the Messiah).

The key words are...

2643 katallagee (kat-al-lag-ay'). From katallasso; exchange (figuratively, adjustment), i.e. Restoration to (the divine) favor
-- atonement, reconciliation(-ing).

2644 katallassoo (kat-al-las'-so). From kata and allassoo; to change mutually, i.e. (figuratively) to compound a difference
-- reconcile.

And, verse 21 shows that exchange: The Messiah became our sin and "our sin" died on the Cross, so we can become His righteousness (or actually, GOD'S righteousness in the Messiah) and be acceptable to God.

Therefore, it's WRONG to think that the Messiah Yeshua` had to go to Hell to suffer more; the GREATEST suffering was BEING SEPARATED FROM GOD, HIS FATHER! He suffered that separation for three hours on the cross. That was enough for Him to become our sacrifice for sin.

He spent three days and nights in the tomb to prove to the Jews that He was indeed dead! Thus, His resurrection had greater impact, disproving the "He merely swooned" theory!

[Retrobyter]

On 7/1/2019 at 2:38 AM, Worship Warriors said:

Hey, Hell is a real place. Jesus went to hell, the lowest part of hell ( read Psalm 22). Sin had been imputed to him. Then God raised him up because he was a righteous man.  he descended into hell, the lowest part of it . In Ephesians, you cant have an ascend unless you have a descend.

when I first got save, the Holy spirit gave me a vision of how Jesus literally pull me out of hell. I saw snakes  and the worst places ever possible . I stated sobbing and sobbing . what manner of love would fight so tenaciously for me. He DID it for me so that I don't have to go there.

Shalom, Worship Warriors, and Happy Independence Day.

No, "Hell" is a misnomer. The word "Hel," now written "Hell," is from Norse mythology.

It's the "Lake of Fire and Brimstone" or the "Lake of Fire and Sulfur" or the "Lake of Burning Sulfur" that is the REAL place of suffering. That ONLY occurs AFTER the Great White Throne Judgment (although sooner for the beast and his false prophet)!

Psalm 22 talks about "sh'owl" (often written "sheol") which is a word meaning "asked about" and refers to "death" and the memorial of one's death, a "grave" and its "grave stone" or "grave marker."

You referred to Ephesians 4 in the statement, "In Ephesians, you cant have an ascend unless you have a descend.":

Ephesians 4:1-16 (KJV)

1 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called, 2 With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love; 3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. 4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.

8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? 10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.) 11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: 14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, andcunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; 15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: 16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

This Ephesians reference, specifically Ephesians 4:8, is a QUOTATION from Scripture, namely Psalm 68:18:

Psalm 68 (KJV)

1 {To the chief Musician, A Psalm or Song of David.}

Let God arise, let his enemies be scattered: let them also that hate him flee before him.

2 As smoke is driven away, so drive them away: as wax melteth before the fire, so let the wicked perish at the presence of God.

3 But let the righteous be glad; let them rejoice before God: yea, let them exceedingly rejoice.

4 Sing unto God, sing praises to his name: extol him that rideth upon the heavens by his name JAH, and rejoice before him.

5 A father of the fatherless, and a judge of the widows, is God in his holy habitation.

6 God setteth the solitary in families: he bringeth out those which are bound with chains: but the rebellious dwell in a dry land.

7 O God, when thou wentest forth before thy people, when thou didst march through the wilderness; Selah:

8 The earth shook, the heavens also dropped at the presence of God: even Sinai itself was moved at the presence of God, the God of Israel.

9 Thou, O God, didst send a plentiful rain, whereby thou didst confirm thine inheritance, when it was weary.

10 Thy congregation hath dwelt therein: thou, O God, hast prepared of thy goodness for the poor.

11 The Lord gave the word: great was the company of those that published it.

12 Kings of armies did flee apace: and she that tarried at home divided the spoil.

13 Though ye have lien among the pots, yet shall ye be as the wings of a dove covered with silver, and her feathers with yellow gold.

14 When the Almighty scattered kings in it, it was white as snow in Salmon.

15 The hill of God is as the hill of Bashan; an high hill as the hill of Bashan.

16 Why leap ye, ye high hills? this is the hill which God desireth to dwell in; yea, the LORD will dwell in it for ever.

17 The chariots of God are twenty thousand, even thousands of angels: the Lord is among them, as in Sinai, in the holy place.

18 Thou hast ascended on high, thou hast led captivity captive: thou hast received gifts for men; yea, for the rebellious also, that the LORD God might dwell among them.

19 Blessed be the Lord, who daily loadeth us with benefits, even the God of our salvation. Selah.

20 He that is our God is the God of salvation; and unto GOD the Lord belong the issues from death.

21 But God shall wound the head of his enemies, and the hairy scalp of such an one as goeth on still in his trespasses.

22 The Lord said, I will bring again from Bashan, I will bring my people again from the depths of the sea:

23 That thy foot may be dipped in the blood of thine enemies, and the tongue of thy dogs in the same.

24 They have seen thy goings, O God; even the goings of my God, my King, in the sanctuary.

25 The singers went before, the players on instruments followed after; among them were the damsels playing with timbrels.

26 Bless ye God in the congregations, even the Lord, from the fountain of Israel.

27 There is little Benjamin with their ruler, the princes of Judah and their council, the princes of Zebulun, and the princes of Naphtali.

28 Thy God hath commanded thy strength: strengthen, O God, that which thou hast wrought for us.

29 Because of thy temple at Jerusalem shall kings bring presents unto thee.

30 Rebuke the company of spearmen, the multitude of the bulls, with the calves of the people, till every one submit himself with pieces of silver: scatter thou the people that delight in war.

31 Princes shall come out of Egypt; Ethiopia shall soon stretch out her hands unto God.

32 Sing unto God, ye kingdoms of the earth; O sing praises unto the Lord; Selah:

33 To him that rideth upon the heavens of heavens, which were of old; lo, he doth send out his voice, and that a mighty voice.

34 Ascribe ye strength unto God: his excellency is over Israel, and his strength is in the clouds.

35 O God, thou art terrible out of thy holy places: the God of Israel is he that giveth strength and power unto his people. Blessed be God.

Therefore, in context, the "captivity" were those who escaped out of Egypt in the Exodus; the "high" was Mount Sinai from where God gave His Word - the Covenant and the Law! Verse 22 is talking about the parting of the Red Sea, and the dry ground upon which they walked was the "lowest earth" (below sea level) where God looked out of the cloud and scared the Egyptians to death! And, the word "salvation" in this context is the "RESCUE" provided to the children of Israel!

Thus, it was THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL who were the "captivity" who were "led captive" by God through the Red Sea and then through the Wilderness to Mount Sinai, whereupon God ascended on high and gave men the gifts of the Torah ("Instruction") and the promises of the Covenant!