OpenMind Posted April 29, 2019 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 0 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 57 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/20/2019 Status: Offline Author Share Posted April 29, 2019 6 hours ago, turtletwo said: ‘I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? 27He is not God of the dead, but of the living. You are quite wrong.” Do you believe that means that the righteous never die? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted April 29, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,991 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,689 Content Per Day: 11.81 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted April 29, 2019 32 minutes ago, OpenMind said: You say that my position is not Biblical yet I presented exactly 40 Bible verses to support my position. I posted verses that unequivocally state that we return to the dust of the earth when we die, that the dead know nothing, that man has no advantage over beasts in death, that people are in their graves, that David has not ascended to heaven and that in fact no man has ascended to heaven. And you state the exact opposite. You say that a believer's "soul" goes immediately to heaven upon death, yet you provide no scriptural evidence. You say a non believer's "soul" goes immediately to Hades, which is actually correct but ironic because you don't seem to understand what "Hades" actually is, nor that the righteous go there also. You have also ignored the Biblical definition of soul and used your own. Why should I believe you? I do not support your interpretations or your belief. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OpenMind Posted April 29, 2019 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 0 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 57 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/20/2019 Status: Offline Author Share Posted April 29, 2019 1 minute ago, missmuffet said: I do not support your interpretations or your belief. That's your prerogative but I would appreciate it if you would explain to me how you reconcile your belief with all the Bible verses that seemingly contradict your belief. For example, what did King Solomon mean when he said "the dead know nothing"? Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing And what did King David mean when he said "he returns to the earth"? Psalm 146:4 When his breath departs, he returns to the earth; on that very day his plans perish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willa Posted April 29, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 68 Topic Count: 186 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 14,240 Content Per Day: 3.33 Reputation: 16,652 Days Won: 30 Joined: 08/14/2012 Status: Online Share Posted April 29, 2019 18 hours ago, OneLight said: I stopped here to ask you how you reject the many passages in scripture referring to the human spirit, as you say we do not have a spirit. 1 Thessalonians 5:23 Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. These are just two of many that can be found in both the new and old testament. Enlarging on what OneLight has said: Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. Rom 8:15 For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, "Abba, Father." Rom 8:16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, Rom 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. Rom 8:27 Now He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God. 1Co 2:10 But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. 1Co 2:11 For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. 1Co 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God. 1Co 2:13 These things we also speak, not in words which man's wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 1Co 2:14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 1Co 2:15 But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one. These verses reveal some of the attributes of the Holy Spirit as well as the human spirit. I don't think that the word character suffices to describe either one. The Holy Spirit is a person of God. He has a mind. He can be insulted. The spirit of man is much more than his character. It is the portion of man that can communicate with God and discerns the things of the Holy Spirit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willa Posted April 29, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 68 Topic Count: 186 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 14,240 Content Per Day: 3.33 Reputation: 16,652 Days Won: 30 Joined: 08/14/2012 Status: Online Share Posted April 29, 2019 4 hours ago, OpenMind said: Do you believe that less clear scripture should be viewed in the light of more clear scripture? Apparently the Scriptures that are very clear to me are the ones that you don't understand. Yes the body goes to the dust. The spirit of man, (not his character) and his soul (self) go to be with the Lord when he dies. We are told that a person has to be spiritual to understand the things of the Spirit of God when He teaches us about the things that await born again believers. 1Co 2:9 But as it is written: "EYE HAS NOT SEEN, NOR EAR HEARD, NOR HAVE ENTERED INTO THE HEART OF MAN THE THINGS WHICH GOD HAS PREPARED FOR THOSE WHO LOVE HIM." 1Co 2:10 But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. 1Co 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God. 1Co 2:13 These things we also speak, not in words which man's wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. People who have the world's spirit can't understand the teaching of the Holy Spirit. The verses that are clear to me you say the meaning is inferred. Nothing is clearer to me and nothing is inferred. I join with MissMuffet in saying I cannot agree with your teaching. You pick and choose the definitions that suit your purpose, and they do not agree with what is plainly written when it comes to eternal life of the soul and spirit. Jhn 10:27 “My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. Jhn 10:28 “And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted April 29, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.24 Reputation: 9,760 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted April 29, 2019 6 hours ago, OpenMind said: You start out by offering a definition of both spirit and soul, but then go on to define a spirit as "the soul". Do you believe they are one and the same? No, I did not. Spirit is G4151 and Soul is G5590. They are different, but similar. Dig deeper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OpenMind Posted April 29, 2019 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 0 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 57 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/20/2019 Status: Offline Author Share Posted April 29, 2019 4 minutes ago, OneLight said: No, I did not. Spirit is G4151 and Soul is G5590. They are different, but similar. Dig deeper. I guess I misunderstood your post then because you appeared to list "the soul" as one of the definitions of spirit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OpenMind Posted April 29, 2019 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 0 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 57 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/20/2019 Status: Offline Author Share Posted April 29, 2019 3 hours ago, Willa said: The spirit of man is much more than his character. It is the portion of man that can communicate with God and discerns the things of the Holy Spirit. I use my mouth and my mind to communicate with God, both of which are physical attributes of my physical body. I use my brain to discern the things of the Holy Spirit. Also a physical attribute of my being. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OpenMind Posted April 29, 2019 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 0 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 57 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/20/2019 Status: Offline Author Share Posted April 29, 2019 2 hours ago, Willa said: Yes the body goes to the dust. The spirit of man, (not his character) and his soul (self) go to be with the Lord when he dies. It really comes down to this. What are you? Are you spirit or dust? The Bible says you are dust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OpenMind Posted April 29, 2019 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 0 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 57 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/20/2019 Status: Offline Author Share Posted April 29, 2019 2 hours ago, Willa said: Apparently the Scriptures that are very clear to me are the ones that you don't understand. Yes the body goes to the dust. The spirit of man, (not his character) and his soul (self) go to be with the Lord when he dies. Explain this to me: If you are an immortal spirit who goes to heaven upon death, then what is the point of the resurrection on the last day? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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