What Happens When you Die?

[OpenMind]

13 minutes ago, Willa said:

 1Co 15:45  And so it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being.”  The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.

This refers to Jesus Christ Who became a life-giving spirit.  I see nowhere that we become that.  You are misquoting Scripture.  

1 Corinthians 15

So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.

If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”[f]; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit. 46 The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the dust of the earth; the second man is of heaven.

Here Paul is explaining the difference between how we were first created (the first Adam, the natural man) and how we will be re-created at the resurrection (the last Adam, the spiritual man).  He is explaining the resurrection; the difference between perishable and imperishable, dishonor and glory, weakness and power, natural and spiritual.  The first Adam became a living being (aka "a soul" as per Genesis 2:7) and the last adam will be a life-giving spirit. 

I am not misquoting scripture.  He is clearly saying that this is what we will become.  A life giving spirit.

 

[OpenMind]

2 minutes ago, Willa said:

We will not become spirits or angels after we die. Perhaps you inferred that we will become life giving spirits because no where do I find that.  I do find that Paul would be absent from the body and be present with the Lord.  I don't find any honosty in that in you misquoted that we become life giving spirits.    Our spirits are not resurrected with our bodies.  Our bodies are transformed in to bodies like Jesus' resurrected body and will be reunited with our spirits.  

You're right that we will not become spirits or angels when we die.  We simply sleep in the dust, but at the resurrection we will become spirits, as Paul explains in 1 Corinthians 15.  At that point, we will all be absent from the body and present with the Lord.

You said "our spirits are not resurrected with our bodies" well I certainly didn't claim that because I've been saying all along, we do not have spirits (except the Holy Spirit but that is not our own, nor is it who we are) we are only bodies of flesh and blood.  When those bodies are resurrected they will be transformed into spirits.  So never will we be both spirit and flesh.  We can only be one at a time.  Now we are flesh (the first Adam) but at the resurrection we will be spirit (the last Adam).

As for this "reuniting" you speak of, you know there's not a single chapter or verse that says this, or even implies it.  Where does this idea come from?  I don't know. 

It's a good idea to pray.

[Michael37]

24 minutes ago, OpenMind said:

You're right that we will not become spirits or angels when we die.  We simply sleep in the dust, but at the resurrection we will become spirits, as Paul explains in 1 Corinthians 15.  At that point, we will all be absent from the body and present with the Lord.

You said "our spirits are not resurrected with our bodies" well I certainly didn't claim that because I've been saying all along, we do not have spirits (except the Holy Spirit but that is not our own, nor is it who we are) we are only bodies of flesh and blood.  When those bodies are resurrected they will be transformed into spirits.  So never will we be both spirit and flesh.  We can only be one at a time.  Now we are flesh (the first Adam) but at the resurrection we will be spirit (the last Adam).

As for this "reuniting" you speak of, you know there's not a single chapter or verse that says this, or even implies it.  Where does this idea come from?  I don't know. 

It's a good idea to pray.

Perhaps you will have an open mind to being corrected regarding your assertions, Open Mind.

Psalm 31:5-6
(5)  Into thine hand I commit my spirit: thou hast redeemed me, O LORD God of truth.
(6)  I have hated them that regard lying vanities: but I trust in the LORD.

Luk 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

Act 7:59  And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.

1Co 2:11 For what man knows the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knows no man, but the Spirit of God.

Rom 8:15-16

(15)  For you have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but you have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

(16)  The Spirit itself bears witness with our spirit (Gr. pneuma), that we are the children of God:

From these and numerous other Scriptures I believe I am a spirit, I have a soul, and I live in a body. As a Christian I believe that when the time comes for my body to die, the moment I am absent from my body I am present with the Lord. I know SDA and others disagree with this but that's to be expected.

[Willa]

1 hour ago, OpenMind said:

47 The first man was of the dust of the earth; the second man is of heaven.

What translation do you use?  I checked 11 translations and none said this.

1Co 15:47  NKJV   The first man was of the earth, made of dust; the second Man is the Lord from heaven.

[JohnD]

What Happens When you Die?

The State, lawyers, and undertakers make money.

 

[Hobie_]

21 hours ago, Sonshine☀️ said:

Yes.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 King James Version (KJV)

7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

We need to dig a little to understand this,  look at James 2:26  "For as the body without the spirit is dead", and also Job 27:3 " All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils;".

Nowhere in scripture does the “spirit” have any life, wisdom, or feeling after a person dies, it is the “breath of life”.  So the spirit that returns to God at death is the breath of life and nothing more.

[OpenMind]

11 hours ago, Willa said:

What translation do you use?  I checked 11 translations and none said this.

1Co 15:47  NKJV   The first man was of the earth, made of dust; the second Man is the Lord from heaven.

I use a number of different translations but in this case I was quoting from the NIV

NIV:  The first man was of the dust of the earth; the second man is of heaven.

 

Here are some others with similar translations.

NASB:  The first man is from the earth, [a]earthy; the second man is from heaven.

LEB:  The first man is from the earth, made of earth; the second man is from heaven.

CEB:  The first human was from the earth made from dust; the second human is from heaven.

CSB:  The first man was from the earth, a man of dust; the second man is[a] from heaven.

 

Also, the Greek does not appear to use the word "Lord" at all.  https://biblehub.com/interlinear/1_corinthians/15-47.htm.  I don't know where the KJV got that from.

 

 

[OpenMind]

12 hours ago, Michael37 said:

Perhaps you will have an open mind to being corrected regarding your assertions, Open Mind.

Psalm 31:5-6
(5)  Into thine hand I commit my spirit: thou hast redeemed me, O LORD God of truth.
(6)  I have hated them that regard lying vanities: but I trust in the LORD.

Luk 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

Act 7:59  And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.

1Co 2:11 For what man knows the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knows no man, but the Spirit of God.

Rom 8:15-16

(15)  For you have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but you have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

(16)  The Spirit itself bears witness with our spirit (Gr. pneuma), that we are the children of God:

From these and numerous other Scriptures I believe I am a spirit, I have a soul, and I live in a body. As a Christian I believe that when the time comes for my body to die, the moment I am absent from my body I am present with the Lord. I know SDA and others disagree with this but that's to be expected.

None of your examples prove your point.  It seems to me you didn't fully read my OP because I addressed some of these examples there, and my explanation in the OP covers the rest of your examples as well, but for the sake of simplicity I'll recap here.

Into thine hand I commit my spirit.  The word "spirit" refers to the breath of God, which is our very life as per Genesis 2:7.  When we die, we give up our last breath and we lose our life.  This is what it's saying, the same as when Jesus gave up his spirit in your example of Luke 23:46.  Jesus gave into the hands of the Father his breath of life.  In other words, he gave his life for the purposes of the Father.

Genesis 2:7 also refutes your statement that you "have a soul", as it explains that any living creature is a soul.  We don't have souls.  We are souls. The Hebrew word used in that verse is Nephesh and you can read about it here:  https://biblehub.com/hebrew/5315.htm

The "spirit of bondage" refers not to an entity but to the characteristics of bondage itself.  Similar to how we use phrases like "school spirit", "Christmas spirit" or "the spirit of giving".  These "spirits" are not entities, but refer to the qualities that form character.  The same applies to "spirit of adoption".

You rightly pointed out that the word "spirit" is translated from the Greek word pneuma.  So if you looked this up you must know that it can mean "spirit, breath or wind".  The context determines which of those applies.  When "spirit" applies, it is a reference to character.  When breath applies, it is a reference to the life that God gave us in Genesis 2:7.

Romans 8:16 - The spirit itself bears witness with our spirit.  This one also refers to the qualities of our character, as that is it which, when in sync  with the Holy Spirit, confirms we are children of God. 

None of your examples claim or validate your claim that we are an immortal spiritual entity living inside of a temporary shell.  In fact, that concept is found nowhere in scripture, only in the inferences of people and the imagination of Hollywood.

It seems that people are very attached to this concept of going to heaven upon death and it's a nice thought, so I understand the appeal, but if you truly open your mind and care not what you want, but care only what the scriptures say, then you should be able to see it.  Personally I find comfort in knowing that upon death I'll know nothing.  I will feel nothing and my consciousness will cease.  It will be like going into surgery and being put to sleep knowing that you'll miss all the bad stuff and when you wake up things will be better.  That's a comfort to me.

One last thing.  You don't even need to find my explanations of your scriptures convincing enough to override your own beliefs.  You need only to find them plausible in light of the other scriptures I pointed out which say that we are dust and that the dead know nothing.  In other words, start with those very clear scriptures and then compare the irrefutability of those with the clarity of your examples and see how you can make them mesh exactly as they are and without inserting extra words.  If you can't make them mesh then your Bible contradicts itself.  Perhaps start with John 6:39 and admit that the resurrection happens on the last day as Jesus plainly said.  That alone contradicts the notion of immediate entry into heaven.  

And putting aside all of my explanations here, this is all really quite simply settled by common sense, knowing that we are to be transformed into immortal spirits on resurrection day, how then can it be that we are already immortal spirits today, as you claim?  What then would be the point of resurrection day?

Edited April 30, 2019 by OpenMind

[OpenMind]

Here's something else to consider for all those who believe the dead are living in heaven.  

Considering the story of the death and resurrection of Lazarus in John 11, why when Martha said "I know he will rise again on the last day" did Jesus not comfort her by saying "He's living right now in heaven"?  And why, if the people knew he was living in heaven would they want him to come back?  Wouldn't they be happy for him and want him to stay in a place so much more wonderful than earth where he would surely suffer again?

And why when John recounted the resurrection of Lazarus made he no mention of "his spirit" returning to his body?  In fact, there was no reference to what happened to Lazarus' spirit at all.  And wouldn't Lazarus have said upon his resurrection, "why did you bring me back?  I was happy in heaven."?

Nobody spoke about where Lazarus was and wondered if he went to heaven or hell.  Nobody spoke about Lazarus as though he was "living" as a spiritual entity.  Nobody comforted the other by saying he's in heaven.  Nobody mentioned heaven at all.  Why is that? 

I mean, if your concept of immediate life after death is true, then wouldn't such a critical part of our universe be talked about in scripture at the very least in such a detailed recounting of the events surrounding Lazarus' death and resurrection?  Wouldn't the whereabouts of his "spirit" be the most integral part of the story? 

And what, if death is not death, would a resurrection really mean?  It wouldn't be bringing somebody back from the dead if he was really still alive.  It would be about bringing somebody's spirit back to their old body for the selfish reasons of those left behind, and would Jesus really facilitate such a transaction, knowing that Lazarus is in a better place in heaven?  Think about that.

[OneLight]

23 minutes ago, OpenMind said:

None of your examples prove your point.  It seems to me you didn't fully read my OP because I addressed some of these examples there, and my explanation in the OP covers the rest of your examples as well, but for the sake of simplicity I'll recap here.

Here is your problem OM.  You begin with an incorrect premise, that man has no spirit, so anything you bring to support an incorrect premise is also faulty.  Why would you expect people to continue to refer back to scripture you provide to back a faulty premise?

People have provided you here with solid scriptural evidence that man does have a spirit.  Perhaps you should be asking what happens to a mans spirit after they die.

Edited April 30, 2019 by OneLight
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