What is the most interesting argument you used with Jehovah's Witnesses or Latter day Saints?

[Daniel Marsh]

What is the most interesting argument you used with Jehovah's Witnesses or Latter day Saints?

[Daniel Marsh]

2 Thessalonians 2:1-2 Good News Translation (GNT)

 Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to be with him: I beg you, my friends, 2 not to be so easily confused in your thinking or upset by the claim that the Day of the Lord has come. Perhaps it is thought that we said this while prophesying or preaching, or that we wrote it in a letter.

In the false JW paraphase or so-called translation it reads, However, brothers, concerning the presence of our Lord(Κυρίου) Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you 2  not to be quickly shaken from your reason nor to be alarmed either by an inspired statement or by a spoken message or by a letter appearing to be from us, to the effect that the day of Jehovah(Κυρίου)  is here.

In verse 2 they translate (Κυρίου) as day of Jehovah(Κυρίου).

In verse 1 they translate Lord(Κυρίου) Jesus Christ.

You can check the Greek words in a Interlinear here:  https://biblehub.com/interlinear/2_thessalonians/2.htm

In short, Both phrases are part of the same sentence in Greek and both use the same Greek word.  

If one translates Jehovah in verse two, than in verse one the correct translation would be Jehovah Jesus Christ.

Another argument is from Rev 1:8

Revelation 1 King James Version (KJV)
1 The Revelation(unveiling) of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.

3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;

5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

 

As you can see from the context, the book of Revelation is about Jesus!!!

We can see from verse 8 the Almighty is Jesus which is to come!!!

2 Thessalonians 2:1 Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to be with him: I beg you, my friends,

No text to my knowledge says the Father is to come at the second coming. 

Both of these arguments Watchtower leaders never answered the arguments and said that I am demon processed. 

 

 

 

[BorderCowboy]

My only question to Mormons is this: "If your way be absolute, why use the KJB alongside the book of mormon?" 

Just my two bits,  JJ

[enoob57]

Did you know Paul warned of this long before Joseph Smith came along an did it?

Gal 1:8

8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
KJV
 

 

[Daniel Marsh]

thanks all

[Daniel Marsh]

Revelation 7 New Revised Standard Version, Anglicised (NRSVA)
The 144,000 of Israel Sealed
7 After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth so that no wind could blow on earth or sea or against any tree. 2 I saw another angel ascending from the rising of the sun, having the seal of the living God, and he called with a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to damage earth and sea, 3 saying, ‘Do not damage the earth or the sea or the trees, until we have marked the servants[a] of our God with a seal on their foreheads.’

4 And I heard the number of those who were sealed, one hundred and forty-four thousand, sealed out of every tribe of the people of Israel:

5 From the tribe of Judah twelve thousand sealed,
from the tribe of Reuben twelve thousand,
from the tribe of Gad twelve thousand,
6 from the tribe of Asher twelve thousand,
from the tribe of Naphtali twelve thousand,
from the tribe of Manasseh twelve thousand,
7 from the tribe of Simeon twelve thousand,
from the tribe of Levi twelve thousand,
from the tribe of Issachar twelve thousand,
8 from the tribe of Zebulun twelve thousand,
from the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand,
from the tribe of Benjamin twelve thousand sealed.

The Multitude from Every Nation
9 After this I looked, and there was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, robed in white, with palm branches in their hands. 10 They cried out in a loud voice, saying,

‘Salvation belongs to our God who is seated on the throne, and to the Lamb!’

 

Revelation 14 New Revised Standard Version, Anglicised (NRSVA)

14 Then I looked, and there was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion! And with him were one hundred and forty-four thousand who had his name and his Father’s name written on their foreheads. 2 And I heard a voice from heaven like the sound of many waters and like the sound of loud thunder; the voice I heard was like the sound of harpists playing on their harps, 3 and they sing a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and before the elders. No one could learn that song except the one hundred forty-four thousand who have been redeemed from the earth. 4 It is these who have not defiled themselves with women, for they are virgins; these follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They have been redeemed from humankind as first fruits for God and the Lamb, 5 and in their mouth no lie was found; they are blameless.

 

Note:  the 144,000 are Jewish men from the 12 Tribes in the last days, who are all virgins. 

So, if any JW has Children by birth, and is not a single male from one of the Jewish Tribes, then they can not be among the 144,000 sealed ones. 

 

[JoeCanada]

On 5/6/2019 at 2:47 PM, Daniel Marsh said:

What is the most interesting argument you used with Jehovah's Witnesses or Latter day Saints?

Hi Daniel....

I've had many conversations with JW's.

I never let them get beyond John 1:1. " In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God"

Their translation reads...."And the Word was A God"

I then tell them that their whole translation has been changed to reflect on "A God"

All the verses that pertain to Jesus's deity have been altered to say something different, that He is not Deity. 

Also, they now have God the Father, Jehova, creating a lesser God, Jesus, to do all His creating work.

You can go on and on with just this "a God" business. They get spun like a pretzel, and usually walk away. They say they will check on this, but you usually don't see them again. Yup, I've been blacklisted many times.

[Jayne]

I also use the John 1 case with Jehovah's witnesses.  Also the Michael, the archangel, case.  They believe Michael and Jesus are the same being.  The last JW woman who came to my door said that "Jesus was a mighty spiritual being".  I told her "No M'am.  Jesus is God.  He wasn't created."

She said she would come back one day when she could come in and talk.  She hasn't been back.  I pray for her.  She needs the truth and would not listen that day.

It makes me sad to think of this.  So many kind and sweet moral and sincere people have no truth about Jesus.  And these two groups, Mormons and JW's are entrenched in untruths.  They need our prayers.

[frienduff thaylorde]

5 minutes ago, Cletus said:

My testimony.  they either listen intently, or move around. 

One knows they teaching SOLID truth , when even the main line leader of an entire movement sends out warnings to avoid such a man .

Imagine that ,  the higher ups give a warning to their members in their churches , to steer clear of a man .     That man must be making an impact by grace

on their peoples . EH .     instead of heeding truth they warn their folks steerclear of that one .

Interesting that the comments made about such a man were ,  HE KNOWS HIS BIBLE TOO WELL .     We cant convince him .    SAYS ALL THAT NEEDS TO BE SAID .

even though they think our bible is erred .   never the less ,  their own words betray them for what they are .    they cant beat and overcome so their advice is flee that man .

JUST GOES TO SHOW , THEY CANT OVERCOME THE TRUTH  .    NOW LEAP UP CLETUS , LEAP UP AND PRAISE THE LORD  .   The ones wiggling , might be getting convicted too.

Or might just be trying to get the heck out of dodge .     WE GOING OUT WITH A BANG my friends ,  AINT A LAMB ONE gonna surrender to  no LIE .   ITS JESUS ONLY TRUTH ONLY

going to be SOUNDED OUT .  AND its always better in pairs too .      But if even alone , like phillip , it works .  

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Most areas have a little known law in place where those going door to door are required  to get a "license" from the local Police Department.   This law has been upheld by all the Courts and exists to protect Citizens from Criminals.   The key purpose of this law is to do Criminal Records check on those doing door to door.   If you request to see  the license that they are required to wear as a badge or refuse to give you their Drivers License or State ID for you to call the Police to verify that they are safe, then you can hold them.  If they try to leave you are encouraged to use limited force to detain them because they are considered to be Criminal Trespassing.  When the Police show up they will arrest them.    These laws have been supported by the US Supreme Court even.  So, demand they produce the License and ID which you are allowed to make a copy of.  They will exchange email addresses with you with no problem.