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Anthony G

True Antichrist

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10 hours ago, Anthony G said:

This site is not downloading my message correctly.  What it should of said pertaining to the comforter not helper,helper is in new Bible apostates created. What I said is the holy ghost will be with the comforter, also a message saying it is his messenger. Book of John ch 13 verses 18 thru 20, he already knows who he has chosen. He that recieveth whomsoever I send receiveth me, and whomsoever receiveth me, receiveth him that sent me, meaning the father. By the way,in acient Egypt, what these gods who refer to as the key of life,it is actually the key of knowledge that the angels stolen. We have been around for thousands of years, and there are people who truly believe that we've become super smart over the past 100 years,is a joke. These gods, angels can do things to us, that are way beyond our comprehension. Pharoahs of the sun whorshiped these gods. What they don't realize is that these gods are actually Satan's angels. God bless you all and if someone takes me serious and wants to know more email me at spiritoftruth10@gmail.com

 

 

You do know that the KJV was not an actual Translation? It was a Paraphrase, where they compared at least 5 older English Translations, and updated the Language to where King James was comfortable with it.  They said so in the Original 1611 Preface, that they DID NOT INTEND TO MAKE  A NEW TRANSLATION, but to revise older translations.  Here are two sites that point out that fact that the original Translation TEAM, did not intend to make a New Translation, (in the Green type below) but to revise older versions (top line) to update the languages and correct some know errors. That is a Paraphrase, and NOT A TRANSLATION.  You have put the KJV way to high on the pedestal.  The PREFACE was Re-written, and a lot of KJV ONLY people, do not even know the ORIGINAL 1611 PREFACE, even Exists.

 

(https://library.osu.edu/innovation-projects/omeka/exhibits/show/the-king-james-bible/sidebars/the-translators-preface-to-the)

 
 
 ORIGINAL 1611 KJV PREFACE
 
The Translators To The Reader

Zeale to promote the common good, whether it be by devising any thing our selves, or revising that which hath bene laboured by others, . . .
. . .
But how shall men meditate in that, which they cannot understand? How shall they understand that which is kept close in an unknowen tongue? . . . so lest the Church be driven to the like exigent, it is necessary to have translations in a readinesse. . .

. . .
Yet it seemed good to the holy Ghost and to them, to take that which they found, (the same being for the greatest part true and sufficient) rather then by making a new, in that new world and greene age of the Church, to expose themselves to many exceptions and cavillations, as though they made a Translation to serve their owne turne, and therefore bearing witnesse to themselves, their witnesse not to be regarded. This may be supposed to bee some cause, why the Translation of the Seventie was allowed to passe for currant. . . . he holdeth the Authours thereof not onely for Interpreters, but also for Prophets in some respect: and Justinian the Emperour enjoyning the Jewes his subjects to use specially the Translation of the Seventie, rendreth this reason thereof, because they were as it were enlighted with propheticall grace. . . .
. . .
(and Saint Jerome affirmeth as much) that the Seventie were Interpreters, they were not Prophets; they did many things well, as learned men; but yet as men they stumbled and fell, one while through oversight, another while through ignorance, yea, sometimes they may be noted to adde to the Originall, and sometimes to take from it; which made the Apostles to leave them many times, when they left the Hebrew, and to deliver the sence thereof according to the trueth of the word, as the spirit gave them utterance. This may suffice touching the Greeke Translations of the old Testament. . . .
. . .
There were also within a few hundreth yeeres after CHRIST, translations many into the Latine tongue: for this tongue also was very fit to convey the Law and the Gospel by, because in those times very many Countreys of the West, yea of the South, East and North, spake or understood Latine, being made Provinces to the Romanes. But now the Latine Translations were too many to be all good, . . . Now the Church of Rome . . . Yea, so unwilling they are to communicate the Scriptures to the peoples understanding in any sort, that they are not ashamed to confesse, that wee forced them to translate it into English against their wills. . . .
. . .
And to the same effect say wee, that we are so farre off from condemning any of their labours that traveiled before us in this kinde, either in this land or beyond sea, either in King Henries time, or King Edwards (if there were any translation, or correction of a translation in his time) or Queene Elizabeths of ever-renoumed memorie, that we acknowledge them to have beene raised up of God, for the building and furnishing of his Church, and that they deserve to be had of us and of posteritie in everlasting remembrance. . . .
. . .
Yet for all that, as nothing is begun and perfited at the same time, and the later thoughts are thought to be the wiser: so, if 
we building upon their foundation that went before us, and being holpen by their labours, doe endevour to make that better which they left so good; no man, we are sure, hath cause to mislike us; they, we persuade our selves, if they were alive, would thanke us. . . .
. . .
to have the translations of the Bible maturely considered of and examined. For by this meanes it commeth to passe, that whatsoever is sound alreadie (and all is sound for substance, in one or other of our editions, and the worst of ours farre better then their autentike vulgar) the same will shine as gold more brightly, being rubbed and polished; also if any thing be halting, or superfluous, or not so agreeable to the originall, the same may bee corrected, and the trueth set in place. . . .
. . .
Now to the later we answere; that wee doe not deny, nay wee affirme and avow, that the very meanest {poorest } translation of the Bible in English, set foorth by men of our profession (for wee have seene none of theirs of the whole Bible as yet) containeth the word of God, nay, is the word of God. . . .
. . .
Yet before we end, we must answere a third cavill and objection of theirs against us, for altering and amending our Translations [sic] so oft; wherein truely they deale hardly, and strangely with us. 
{ The very same thing you do to MODERN Translations. } For to whom ever was it imputed for a fault (by such as were wise) to goe over that which hee had done, and to amend it where he saw cause? . . .
. . .
But the difference that appeareth betweene our Translations, and our often correcting of them, is the thing that wee are specially charged with; let us see therefore whether they themselves bee without fault this way, (if it be to be counted a fault, to correct) and whether they bee fit men to throw stones at us: 
But it is high time to leave them, and to shew in briefe what wee proposed to our selves, and what course we held in this our perusall and survay of the Bible. Truly (good Christian Reader) wee never thought from the beginning, that we should neede to make a new Translation, nor yet to make of a bad one a good one, (for then the imputation of Sixtus had bene true in some sort, that our people had bene fed with gall of Dragons in stead of wine, with whey in stead of milke, but to make a good one better, or out of many good ones, one principall good one, not justly to be excepted against; that hath bene our indeavour, that our marke. . . . 
 
{ That makes it a PARAPHRASE and not an actual Translation from the original languages. }

 

 

Edited by VCO
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7 hours ago, VCO said:

 

 

You do know that the KJV was not an actual Translation ? It was a Paraphrase, where they compared at least 5 older English Translations, and updated the Language to where King James was comfortable with it.  They said so in the Original 1611 Preface, that they DID NOT INTEND TO MAKE  A NEW TRANSLATION, but to revise older translations.  Here are two sites that point out that fact that the original Translation TEAM, did not intend to make a New Translation, (in the Green type below) but to revise older versions (top line) to update the languages and correct some know errors. That is a Paraphrase, and NOT A TRANSLATION.  You have put the KJV way to high on the pedestal.  The PREFACE was Re-written, and a lot of KJV ONLY people, do not even know the ORIGINAL 1611 PREFACE, even Exists.

 

(https://library.osu.edu/innovation-projects/omeka/exhibits/show/the-king-james-bible/sidebars/the-translators-preface-to-the)

 
 
 ORIGINAL 1611 KJV PREFACE
 
The Translators To The Reader

Zeale to promote the common good, whether it be by devising any thing our selves, or revising that which hath bene laboured by others, . . .
. . .
But how shall men meditate in that, which they cannot understand? How shall they understand that which is kept close in an unknowen tongue? . . . so lest the Church be driven to the like exigent, it is necessary to have translations in a readinesse. . .

. . .
Yet it seemed good to the holy Ghost and to them, to take that which they found, (the same being for the greatest part true and sufficient) rather then by making a new, in that new world and greene age of the Church, to expose themselves to many exceptions and cavillations, as though they made a Translation to serve their owne turne, and therefore bearing witnesse to themselves, their witnesse not to be regarded. This may be supposed to bee some cause, why the Translation of the Seventie was allowed to passe for currant. . . . he holdeth the Authours thereof not onely for Interpreters, but also for Prophets in some respect: and Justinian the Emperour enjoyning the Jewes his subjects to use specially the Translation of the Seventie, rendreth this reason thereof, because they were as it were enlighted with propheticall grace. . . .
. . .
(and Saint Jerome affirmeth as much) that the Seventie were Interpreters, they were not Prophets; they did many things well, as learned men; but yet as men they stumbled and fell, one while through oversight, another while through ignorance, yea, sometimes they may be noted to adde to the Originall, and sometimes to take from it; which made the Apostles to leave them many times, when they left the Hebrew, and to deliver the sence thereof according to the trueth of the word, as the spirit gave them utterance. This may suffice touching the Greeke Translations of the old Testament. . . .
. . .
There were also within a few hundreth yeeres after CHRIST, translations many into the Latine tongue: for this tongue also was very fit to convey the Law and the Gospel by, because in those times very many Countreys of the West, yea of the South, East and North, spake or understood Latine, being made Provinces to the Romanes. But now the Latine Translations were too many to be all good, . . . Now the Church of Rome . . . Yea, so unwilling they are to communicate the Scriptures to the peoples understanding in any sort, that they are not ashamed to confesse, that wee forced them to translate it into English against their wills. . . .
. . .
And to the same effect say wee, that we are so farre off from condemning any of their labours that traveiled before us in this kinde, either in this land or beyond sea, either in King Henries time, or King Edwards (if there were any translation, or correction of a translation in his time) or Queene Elizabeths of ever-renoumed memorie, that we acknowledge them to have beene raised up of God, for the building and furnishing of his Church, and that they deserve to be had of us and of posteritie in everlasting remembrance. . . .
. . .
Yet for all that, as nothing is begun and perfited at the same time, and the later thoughts are thought to be the wiser: so, if 
we building upon their foundation that went before us, and being holpen by their labours, doe endevour to make that better which they left so good; no man, we are sure, hath cause to mislike us; they, we persuade our selves, if they were alive, would thanke us. . . .
. . .
to have the translations of the Bible maturely considered of and examined. For by this meanes it commeth to passe, that whatsoever is sound alreadie (and all is sound for substance, in one or other of our editions, and the worst of ours farre better then their autentike vulgar) the same will shine as gold more brightly, being rubbed and polished; also if any thing be halting, or superfluous, or not so agreeable to the originall, the same may bee corrected, and the trueth set in place. . . .
. . .
Now to the later we answere; that wee doe not deny, nay wee affirme and avow, that the very meanest {poorest } translation of the Bible in English, set foorth by men of our profession (for wee have seene none of theirs of the whole Bible as yet) containeth the word of God, nay, is the word of God. . . .
. . .
Yet before we end, we must answere a third cavill and objection of theirs against us, for altering and amending our Taanslations [sic] so oft; wherein truely they deale hardly, and strangely with us. 
{ The very same thing you do to MODERN Translations. } For to whom ever was it imputed for a fault (by such as were wise) to goe over that which hee had done, and to amend it where he saw cause? . . .
. . .
But the difference that appeareth betweene our Translations, and our often correcting of them, is the thing that wee are specially charged with; let us see therefore whether they themselves bee without fault this way, (if it be to be counted a fault, to correct) and whether they bee fit men to throw stones at us: 
But it is high time to leave them, and to shew in briefe what wee proposed to our selves, and what course we held in this our perusall and survay of the Bible. Truly (good Christian Reader) wee never thought from the beginning, that we should neede to make a new Translation, nor yet to make of a bad one a good one, (for then the imputation of Sixtus had bene true in some sort, that our people had bene fed with gall of Dragons in stead of wine, with whey in stead of milke, but to make a good one better, or out of many good ones, one principall good one, not justly to be excepted against; that hath bene our indeavour, that our marke. . . . 
 
{ That makes it a PARAPHRASE and not an actual Translation from the original languages. }

 

 

This is true, if we don't study the Hebrew and Greek root words for ourselves, with the computers we have today, we do a disservice to ourselves. If one studies the Word YOWM, they can see it is used in many different ways, but its always an insertion for a PERIOD OF TIME, its just not always a day, but when you try and tell people that YOWM doesn't have to mean day, they will argue you down it does...LOL. The when I show them scripture where its used for year, month, a period of time etc. I don't hear back from them. The KJV is my go to, but there are MANY, MANY errors in it.

 

The first verse of Revelation is a perfect example, it says these things must shortly come to pass.......The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

But there are TWO NUMBERS behind SHORTLY....

 1:1 ¶ The Reuelation 602 of Iesus 2424 Christ, 5547 which 3739 God 2316 gaue 1325 z5656 vnto him, 846 to shewe 1166 z5658 vnto his y846 x848 seruants 1401 things which 3739 must 1163 z5748 shortly 1722 5034 come to passe; 1096 z5635 and 2532 he sent 649 z5660 and signified 4591 z5656 [it] by 1223 his y846 x848 Angel 32 vnto his y846 x848 seruant 1401 Iohn, 2491

#1722 ἐν en {en} a primary preposition denoting (fixed) position (in place, time or state),

—Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)

-----------------------------------------------------------

#5034 τάχος tachos {takh'-os} from the same as G5036; TDNT - n/a; n n

—Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)

1) quickness, speed

—Thayer's (New Testament Greek-English Lexicon)

From the same as G5036; a brief space (of time), that is, (with G1722 prefixed) in haste:— + quickly, + shortly, + speedily.

—Strong's (Greek Dictionary of the New Testament)

So in truth the KJV is wrong, it never says these things are going to come to pass shortly......Instead it says at a FIXED POINT IN TIME {When the Fathers sends the Son no doubt}, Jesus will return HASTILY, SPEEDILY, or in a FLASH. In other words, it means in a SHORT TIME FRAME, Jesus will return, when the Father orders that return it will be like BOOM, I am here.

But I see many a Eschatology that goes off the rails, thinking all of Revelation must have passed, because they read the KJV ad don't study the root words.

Good Advice, don't trust any  translation in full, check and recheck. Some are bad translations, and some or not even translations as you say.

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Posted (edited)
42 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

This is true, if we don't study the Hebrew and Greek root words for ourselves, with the computers we have today, we do a disservice to ourselves. If one studies the Word YOWM, they can see it is used in many different ways, but its always an insertion for a PERIOD OF TIME, its just not always a day, but when you try and tell people that YOWM doesn't have to mean day, they will argue you down it does...LOL. The when I show them scripture where its used for year, month, a period of time etc. I don't hear back from them. The KJV is my go to, but there are MANY, MANY errors in it.

 

The first verse of Revelation is a perfect example, it says these things must shortly come to pass.......The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

But there are TWO NUMBERS behind SHORTLY....

 1:1 ¶ The Reuelation 602 of Iesus 2424 Christ, 5547 which 3739 God 2316 gaue 1325 z5656 vnto him, 846 to shewe 1166 z5658 vnto his y846 x848 seruants 1401 things which 3739 must 1163 z5748 shortly 1722 5034 come to passe; 1096 z5635 and 2532 he sent 649 z5660 and signified 4591 z5656 [it] by 1223 his y846 x848 Angel 32 vnto his y846 x848 seruant 1401 Iohn, 2491

#1722 ἐν en {en} a primary preposition denoting (fixed) position (in place, time or state),

—Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)

-----------------------------------------------------------

#5034 τάχος tachos {takh'-os} from the same as G5036; TDNT - n/a; n n

—Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)

1) quickness, speed

—Thayer's (New Testament Greek-English Lexicon)

From the same as G5036; a brief space (of time), that is, (with G1722 prefixed) in haste:— + quickly, + shortly, + speedily.

—Strong's (Greek Dictionary of the New Testament)

So in truth the KJV is wrong, it never says these things are going to come to pass shortly......Instead it says at a FIXED POINT IN TIME {When the Fathers sends the Son no doubt}, Jesus will return HASTILY, SPEEDILY, or in a FLASH. In other words, it means in a SHORT TIME FRAME, Jesus will return, when the Father orders that return it will be like BOOM, I am here.

But I see many a Eschatology that goes off the rails, thinking all of Revelation must have passed, because they read the KJV ad don't study the root words.

Good Advice, don't trust any  translation in full, check and recheck. Some are bad translations, and some or not even translations as you say.

 

 

 

Thanks for your input, I some of it I did not know before.  THANKS.

 

My Favorite Translation is Holman's Christian Standard Bible (HCSB), published in 2004.  The reason is their Translation Team did not mess with a lot of the word Yahweh, the way the other Translations did.  Here is an example:

Isaiah 43:10-11 (HCSB)
10  “You are My witnesses”— this is the LORD’s declaration— “and My servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe Me and understand that I am He. No god was formed before Me, and there will be none after Me.
11  I, I am Yahweh, and there is no other Savior but Me.

 

I use that Scripture a LOT to prove the DEITY of CHRIST, and back it up using:

Luke 2:11-12 (HCSB)
11  Today a Savior, who is Messiah the Lord, was born for you in the city of David.
12  This will be the sign for you: You will find a baby wrapped snugly in cloth and lying in a feeding trough.”

 

The HCSB is FREE, and some older versions like KJV, ASV, etc.,  with the FREE WORDsearch Starter edition with their Software.  They have over 200 free books too. 

Not Greedy at all, I would say, and have very good sales.  (https://www.wordsearchbible.com/apps/wordsearch-starter)

 

 

Edited by VCO
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On 5/19/2019 at 1:34 PM, VCO said:

 

 

That is talk about the Dictator that Satan possess or controls, during the final 7 years before Christ comes back.  Satan has always wanted to RULE THE WORLD through a Dictator, and He has trying SEVERAL TIMES, but the Holy Spirit has not let him fully do it.  The Holy Spirit is the ONE that Holds him back.  He has tried through several Dictators in the Past, like NERO, NAPOLEON, ADOLF HITLER, ETC.  BUT the HOLY SPIRIT is always there, NOT LETTING Satan go too far.  BUT THEN THE HOLY SPIRIT WILL BE TAKEN OUT OF THE WAY, and if HE IS GOING BACK TO HEAVEN, to let Satan Posses that Dictator in the end times, WE HAVE TO GO WITH HIM.

John 14:16-17 (GWT)
16  I will ask the Father, and he will give you another helper who will be with you forever.
17  That helper is the Spirit of Truth. The world cannot accept him, because it doesn't see or know him. You know him, because he lives with you and will be in you.

That is just one of the reasons why we Evangelicals, absolutely believe in the PRE-TRIBULATION RAPTURE.

 

Hi VCO.

Great post. Scripture teaches that the Holy Spirit will remain here during the tribulation. 

It is important we understand that the church will be taken out of the world before the Antichrist is revealed and before the tribulation begins, and not the Holy Spirit.

The bible clearly states that the hinderer of lawlessness must be removed before the Antichrist is revealed,  2 Thess. 2:7-8, For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. V. 8, And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

There are only three things in the world today that hinder lawlessness. They are the church, the Holy Spirit and human governments. The hinderer that will be taken out of the world must refer to one of these three things.

It could not refer to the Holy Spirit or governments for neither will be taken out of the world. It is clear that governments will not be taken for the Antichrist will reign over the ten kingdoms during the tribulation (Dan. 7:23-24; Rev. 17:8-17).

The Holy Spirit will be here during the tribulation, so He could not be the hinderer taken (Acts. 2:16-21; John 14:16; Rev. 7:14; 12:17; 19:10; Zech. 12:10).

The Church will be taken out of the world,  (1 Thess. 4:16; Eph. 5:26-27; 1 Cor. 15:51-58), so this must be the hinderer referred to.

If one cannot understand how the church could be referred to as "he," see Eph. 2:15; 4:13 where the church is called a "man."

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, VCO said:

 

 

 

Thanks for your input, I some of it I did not know before.  THANKS.

 

My Favorite Translation is Holman's Christian Standard Bible (HCSB), published in 2004.  The reason is their Translation Team did not mess with a lot of the word Yahweh, the way the other Translations did.  Here is an example:

Isaiah 43:10-11 (HCSB)
10  “You are My witnesses”— this is the LORD’s declaration— “and My servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe Me and understand that I am He. No god was formed before Me, and there will be none after Me.
11  I, I am Yahweh, and there is no other Savior but Me.

 

I use that Scripture a LOT to prove the DEITY of CHRIST, and back it up using:

Luke 2:11-12 (HCSB)
11  Today a Savior, who is Messiah the Lord, was born for you in the city of David.
12  This will be the sign for you: You will find a baby wrapped snugly in cloth and lying in a feeding trough.”

 

The HCSB is FREE, and some older versions like KJV, ASV, etc.,  with the FREE WORDsearch Starter edition with their Software.  They have over 200 free books too. 

Not Greedy at all, I would say, and have very good sales.  (https://www.wordsearchbible.com/apps/wordsearch-starter)

 

 

YW....and Holman is the version I use if someone can't understand something I am trying to explain. I understand the KJV,{then again I understand the Book of Revelation, so I am a oddball some say because I see the riddles, LOL...I am a preacher, my members kid me} with all of its backwards or Old English style, but if some people can't grasp it I use the Holman, but at times it doesn't Copy & Paste well. I therefore have to paste it somewhere else, recopy and then Copy & Paste, and it works like that. 

Welcome to the board brother { or is it sister? } 

Edited by Revelation Man

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1 hour ago, HAZARD said:

Hi VCO.

Great post. Scripture teaches that the Holy Spirit will remain here during the tribulation. 

It is important we understand that the church will be taken out of the world before the Antichrist is revealed and before the tribulation begins, and not the Holy Spirit.

Agreed, where people get a wee bit confused in that passage is the Holy Spirit is ordered to stop blocking the Anti-Christ/Man of Sin from coming forth, or he is taken out of the way, or so that used to be my thinking. Try this on for size brother. It is the Church with the Holy Spirit working through it that blocks the Man of Sin from coming forth, thus the Church is taken out of the way via the Pre-trib Rapture !! Jesus told Peter, the gates of hell will not prevail against my Church. Thus the Beast {Rome} received the Mortal Wound, which can only be healed after the Church is Raptured. So I have come to see that which is take out of the way as the Church or body of Christ holding back evil via the Holy Spirit working through us. Think of the void on the earth when we are gone. 

 

2 hours ago, HAZARD said:

The bible clearly states that the hinderer of lawlessness must be removed before the Antichrist is revealed,  2 Thess. 2:7-8, For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. V. 8, And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

There are only three things in the world today that hinder lawlessness. They are the church, the Holy Spirit and human governments. The hinderer that will be taken out of the world must refer to one of these three things.

It could not refer to the Holy Spirit or governments for neither will be taken out of the world. It is clear that governments will not be taken for the Antichrist will reign over the ten kingdoms during the tribulation (Dan. 7:23-24; Rev. 17:8-17).

The Holy Spirit will be here during the tribulation, so He could not be the hinderer taken (Acts. 2:16-21; John 14:16; Rev. 7:14; 12:17; 19:10; Zech. 12:10).

The Church will be taken out of the world,  (1 Thess. 4:16; Eph. 5:26-27; 1 Cor. 15:51-58), so this must be the hinderer referred to.

If one cannot understand how the church could be referred to as "he," see Eph. 2:15; 4:13 where the church is called a "man."

Well I see after reading we are in perfect agreement pretty much.....I was going to go point by point, but we are pretty much in sync. 

 

Great post.

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1 hour ago, HAZARD said:

Hi VCO.

Great post. Scripture teaches that the Holy Spirit will remain here during the tribulation. 

It is important we understand that the church will be taken out of the world before the Antichrist is revealed and before the tribulation begins, and not the Holy Spirit.

The bible clearly states that the hinderer of lawlessness must be removed before the Antichrist is revealed,  2 Thess. 2:7-8, For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. V. 8, And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

There are only three things in the world today that hinder lawlessness. They are the church, the Holy Spirit and human governments. The hinderer that will be taken out of the world must refer to one of these three things.

It could not refer to the Holy Spirit or governments for neither will be taken out of the world. It is clear that governments will not be taken for the Antichrist will reign over the ten kingdoms during the tribulation (Dan. 7:23-24; Rev. 17:8-17).

The Holy Spirit will be here during the tribulation, so He could not be the hinderer taken (Acts. 2:16-21; John 14:16; Rev. 7:14; 12:17; 19:10; Zech. 12:10).

The Church will be taken out of the world,  (1 Thess. 4:16; Eph. 5:26-27; 1 Cor. 15:51-58), so this must be the hinderer referred to.

If one cannot understand how the church could be referred to as "he," see Eph. 2:15; 4:13 where the church is called a "man."

 

 

Good point, I should not have phased it that way, but here is some Food for Thought.  The Holy Spirit had NO PROBLEM SAVING PEOPLE on earth without indwelling them, and being heaven, too, in the Old Testament times. So WHY do you think he cannot do it During the Tribulation.  HE ENTERED OUR HEARTS, to become a COMFORTER.  EVERYTHING ELSE, HE CAN DO WHILE BEING outside our body, and IN HEAVEN, too. Because HE is OMNIPRESENT, he is in both places at the SAME TIME technically, but the Promise He will be in YOU and will NEVER LEAVE YOU, seems to be only for the New Testament ASSEMBLY.  

Why did I phrase that ASSEMBLY?  Technically CHURCH IS NOT IN THE BIBLE at all.  When JESUS SAID:

Matthew 16:18 (YLT)
18  `And I also say to thee, that thou art a rock, and upon this rock I will build my assembly, and gates of Hades shall not prevail against it;
 

Look up the word ekklēsia and You will find the it means ASSEMBLY.  CHURCH is man's word for it, not what JESUS SAID or the Apostles said.
 

 John 14:16 (KJV)
16  And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

SO WHAT DOES GOD MEAN BY FOREVER? ? ?  I would say, for Eternity.

AND HE WILL BE AT THE WEDDING IN HEAVEN.

 

Another point, now that I mentioned Mat. 16:18:

So the people HE was talking to in this verse were the last of the Old Testament ASSEMBLY:

John 10:16 (ASV)
16  And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice: and they shall become one flock, one shepherd.
 

So THIS FOLD, is the last of the Old Testament ASSEMBLY, because the New Testament ASSEMBLY, did not begin until the Day of Pentecost after the Ascension. The OTHER SHEEP is us.  And we will become ONE FLOCK AT THE RAPTURE.

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4 minutes ago, VCO said:

 

 

Good point, I should not have phased it that way, but here is some Food for Thought.  The Holy Spirit had NO PROBLEM SAVING PEOPLE on earth without indwelling them, and being heaven, too, in the Old Testament times. So WHY do you think he cannot do it During the Tribulation.  HE ENTERED OUR HEARTS, to become a COMFORTER.  EVERYTHING ELSE, HE CAN DO WHILE BEING outside our body, and IN HEAVEN, too. Because HE is OMNIPRESENT, he is in both places at the SAME TIME technically, but the Promise He will be in YOU and will NEVER LEAVE YOU, seems to be only for the New Testament ASSEMBLY.  

Why did I phrase that ASSEMBLY?  Technically CHURCH IS NOT IN THE BIBLE at all.  When JESUS SAID:

Matthew 16:18 (YLT)
18  `And I also say to thee, that thou art a rock, and upon this rock I will build my assembly, and gates of Hades shall not prevail against it;
 

Look up the word ekklēsia and You will find the it means ASSEMBLY.  CHURCH is man's word for it, not what JESUS SAID or the Apostles said.
 

 John 14:16 (KJV)
16  And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

SO WHAT DOES GOD MEAN BY FOREVER? ? ?  I would say, for Eternity.

AND HE WILL BE AT THE WEDDING IN HEAVEN.

 

Another point, now that I mentioned Mat. 16:18:

So the people HE was talking to in this verse were the last of the Old Testament ASSEMBLY:

John 10:16 (ASV)
16  And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice: and they shall become one flock, one shepherd.
 

So THIS FOLD, is the last of the Old Testament ASSEMBLY, because the New Testament ASSEMBLY, did not begin until the Day of Pentecost after the Ascension. The OTHER SHEEP is us.  And we will become ONE FLOCK AT THE RAPTURE.

Well said. The new Testament Church, of which Jesus Christ is the head is a called out body of people of all nations who have been born again and who have lived a true Christian life and died in the faith. It also includes all those who are alive in Christ today. This present church is called the "ekklesia" of the New Testament times, called out of this world to evangelize the world in this age.

The church, in its largest signification is the whole company of redeemed in all ages, in Heaven and in Earth (Eph. 3:1-11; Heb. 12:23). It is the spiritual people who have been made members of the universal family of God. The church in this sense is the body of Christ, and it does not consist of saved and unsaved. It is not a group of individuals associated together for social and benevolent purposes, as seems to be on every hand in most worldly church gatherings. It is the body of people indwelt by God through the Holy Spirit and through whom God works in the world.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

YW....and Holman is the version I use if someone can't understand something I am trying to explain. I understand the KJV,{then again  understand the Book of Revelation, I am a oddball some say because I see the riddles, LOL...I am a preacher, my members kid me} with all of its backwards or Old English style, but of some people can't grasp it I use the Holman, but at times it doesn't Copy & Paste well. I therefore have to paste it somewhere else, recopy and then Copy & Paste, and it works like that. 

Welcome to the board brother { or is it sister? } 

It is Brother, the Lord put in on my hard to move west in the 80's, and I knew not why.  It turned out He wanted me to start, a prison ministry in a new super-max prison that was just being build out there on the coast.  Now you have to understand, I did not know the first thing about starting a Prison Ministry, but I figured HE KNEW EVERYTHING ABOUT IT, so I trusted HIM to give me guidance through it all.  The VCO, stands for Volunteer Chaplain Orville.  I left the Prison Ministry with 8 Volunteers, most I had trained personally, to take my place.  I am retired now, but what an experience.  After my wife passed away, I moved back to Nebraska, where I have some family, and it is WAY CHEAPER to live here, than in California.  I miss the Ocean though.  I turned 70 in February, oh my, now I fell like I am older than dirt.  I got aches and pains, where I did not know they were possible.  If I bend to pick up something on the ground, it takes me at least 4 times longer to get back up.  Now you know what you have to look forward to.  

Edited by VCO
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14 minutes ago, VCO said:

It is Brother, the Lord put in on my hard to move west in the 80's, and I knew not why.  It turned out He wanted me to start, a prison ministry in a new super-max prison that was just being build out there on the coast.  Now you have to understand, I did not know the first thing about starting a Prison Ministry, but I figured HE KNEW EVERYTHING ABOUT IT, so I trusted HIM to give me guidance through it all.  The VCO, stands for Volunteer Chaplain Orville.  After my wife passed away,  I am retired now, but what an experience.  I moved back to Nebraska, where I have some family, and it is WAY CHEAPER to live here, than in California.  I miss the Ocean though.

Well I live in central Alabama so I can zoom down to the coast in about 3 hours {200 miles} so I know the feeling.  I guess the Mizzou River or South Platte will have to do for you now brother {that's the only two I know off hand}. I am a Prophecy/Revelation/Daniel type guy in my leisure, {can't preach that all the time} and these last few years God has really shown me some things I never saw before. 

You know, everyone has different ideas what the 1290 and 1335 is, half say it stretches into the New Millennium, some have wild ideas etc. etc. Only because I was researching the time when the Jews repent and flee did I get this from God, it was like a last piece of the puzzle, so I saw it had to fit. All the numbers are exactly the same, the time, times and half in Dan. 12 is 1260 days from Jesus' return or until all these Wonders Cease or end and we know Jesus' Second Coming will end all those wonders. Likewise, the other two numbers are also events that are a set number of days until these wonders end/cease, we know that because Daniel asks the same question the Angel asked Jesus in verse 6..............in verse 8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?

So the 1290 and 1335 are Events that are 1290 days until these wonders end and 1335 days until these wonders end {Second Coming}.

So the 1290 actually happens 30 days before the 1260, but does that fit ? I had to ponder this.....Well it fits the fact that Jesus told them in Matt. 24 to Flee when they saw the Abomination of Desolation, so it made sense that Jesus would give the Jews a Marker to flee at, which happened BEFORE the Anti-Christ Conquered Jerusalem, so that made perfect sense logically speaking, but of course I always assumed the Beast {A.C.} defiled the Temple of God, so I had to research/read my bible. Could something else defile the Temple 30 days before the Beast Conquers Jerusalem ? Well, Rev. 13 says the False Prophet makes an IMAGE of the Beast {E.U. President IMHO} and places it in the Temple, then he demands that all men should worship the Beast or die....so our answer is right there, the False Prophet places the Image of the Beast in the Temple !! That is their 30 day Marker to get out of Dodge !! {I see the False Prophet as a High Priest like unto Jason under Antiochus who tried to Hellenize his Jewish brothers, his real name was Yeshua, the Maccabeans Revolted}

This means the Jews have to repent BEFORE the First Seal is broken, does that fit ? Yes, Malachi 4:5 says Elijah will be sent back BEFORE the Day of the Lord to turn Israel back unto God. Zechariah 13 says 1/3 of the Jews repent and 2/3 will perish. So the 1290 is the AoD, and happens 30 days before the 1260 {Israel/Jerusalem is Conquered} so what is the 1335 ? Well, its a blessing, and what can be more of a Blessing than the Two-witnesses showing up to bring Israel unto Repentance ? LOL I thought, it all fits like a glove. My problem is no one sees it, the trained mind is hard to overcome, Jesus called it Men's Traditions. When everything fits we know its of the Holy Spirit, it gets us excited. But these are things I ponder on. It is exciting time brother.

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