shortangel Posted May 13, 2019 Group: Senior Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 839 Content Per Day: 0.44 Reputation: 634 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/12/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted May 13, 2019 ok here's my 2 cents, God doesn't want to send us to hell but if we keep sinning or turning our backs on him without repentance he will send us there, he wants everyone to come to repentance but not everyone will, it's our choice if we go to heaven or hell 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Bought 1953 Posted May 13, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 13 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,726 Content Per Day: 2.89 Reputation: 6,258 Days Won: 5 Joined: 12/03/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted May 13, 2019 2 hours ago, Still Alive said: We are not turned from sin. We are turned to Jesus for the forgiveness of sin. Sin no longer has a hold on us. And if one does not turn, they don't "burn". What they do is die. The message of the bible, OT and NT, is "turn or die". As Ecclesiastes says, the fate of man is to eat and drink and enjoy the fruits of his labor, followed by Death. But Jesus has a better way - life everlasting after the death of the body. The only thing the non-believer has to look forward to after the death of his body (natural man, biological meat machine) is the death of the soul. The Holy Spirit first convicts the unregenerate sinner of being a lost sinner......Then they turn to God to be saved through faith in Jesus Christ....or not .Faith in Jesus is accomplished in this Age of Grace by obeying the Gospel Of 1Cor15:1-4......it is God’s way to be saved,for only the Gospel has the Power to save...it is what we will be asked about when we stand before God—- “ what did you do with My Gospel?” It is hidden from the lost.....If you add to it with works you become “ fallen from Grace”.Some say that means you will love a defeated Christian life , while others say it will cause your damnation.Take your pick and good luck— or you could be wise and trust God ..... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustPassingThru Posted May 13, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 14 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,979 Content Per Day: 0.99 Reputation: 2,112 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/23/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted May 13, 2019 4 hours ago, Tigger56 said: Like I said, I know most will not agree with me and know there will be many posts denying what I said. But I hope someone who reads my simple statement will take the time to ponder a loving God in comparison to eternal torment. I remember Billy Graham even spoke about the difficulty of hell. He said some believed it was the physical burning of a person's flesh off their bones for eternity, some believed it would be like that but in spirit. He expressed a confusion in regards to the concept. Think about it, have you ever been burned, it is extremely painful, now imagine this over your entire body for eternity... (both are eternal life but eternal life in intense pain and torment) who would ever equate that to love? Anyway, I guess I will sit back and await all the scripture quoting, etc.... in an effort to prove how horrible our God can be.... But I don't think I will respond, but rather, once again, hope some will ponder the concept of eternal death over eternal torture from a loving God. Brother, Father poured out ALL of His Wrath of the sins of ALL of humanity, past, present and future, on His Son, how do you think that felt to His human body, ...most of us have been desensitized by what actually took place on the Cross by the portrayal of it the media has present to us, ...but Truth is, read Psa 22, that's what our Lord went through, the physical pain, ...we can't even come close to imaginging in our minds, ...God's Holy Wrath had to be poured out on someone, so our Blessed Lord took it, for you, me and ALL who would believe in Him, so, those that don't receive Him, they are still guilty when they die, the punishment for their sin is still there because they chose to take it upon themselves, ...that's why the Gospel is called the Good News, ...at the Great White Throne Judgement their sin is still accounted to them, the punishment is still the same as that which Father poured out on His Son, ...yes God is Good and He is Love, that's who He is, the very fiber of His Being, ...but don't ever forget that along with that He is Holy, His Holiness is also woven into the very fiber of His Being, ...but Grace, God's Goodness and Love, for our sakes, were more influential than His Holiness when the decision was made in eternity past to save sinful humans, ...God MUST be faithful to Himself, He cannot deny His Holiness, He found a way to set it aside and not be unfaithful to Himself, ...but the Truth is, God is a Trinity, ...Father, Son, Holy Spirit, ...by faith we must believe it and receive it into ourselves, He is also Good, Love, Holy, ...by faith we must believe that also and receive it into ourselves. Like you, I've thougth about the pain when I've burned myself, and couldn't even begin to wrap my head around the thought of my whole body burning for Eternity, ...Father didn't program us, there isn't a file in our memory to put death in, place it in the file cabinet, close it and put it away out of sight, that's why we can't reconcile it within our hearts or spirit, ...it's always there in front of us, ...as motivation to preach the Gospel and save as many as possible from the penalty of their sin that is waiting for them. If we preach the Gospel without including eternal punishment, For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Rom 3:23 For the wages of sin is death; Rom 6:23 ...we have changed the gospel into another gospel, and we all know what the Holy Spirit said through Paul about that: But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. Gal 1:8, 9 Lord bless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still Alive Posted May 13, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,024 Content Per Day: 1.34 Reputation: 1,224 Days Won: 3 Joined: 02/05/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted May 13, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Blood Bought 1953 said: The Holy Spirit first convicts the unregenerate sinner of being a lost sinner......Then they turn to God to be saved through faith in Jesus Christ....or not .Faith in Jesus is accomplished in this Age of Grace by obeying the Gospel Of 1Cor15:1-4......it is God’s way to be saved,for only the Gospel has the Power to save...it is what we will be asked about when we stand before God—- “ what did you do with My Gospel?” It is hidden from the lost.....If you add to it with works you become “ fallen from Grace”.Some say that means you will love a defeated Christian life , while others say it will cause your damnation.Take your pick and good luck— or you could be wise and trust God ..... And the culmination of those four verses is this: "...that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures..." Since I believe exactly that, and it is partly what my post was based on, I think we are in agreement. I think where my previous post went south was I said we are not saved from sin. I should have said, saved from "sinning". And by that I mean that we don't suddenly stop any and all "sinful" activity. Edited May 13, 2019 by Still Alive 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still Alive Posted May 13, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,024 Content Per Day: 1.34 Reputation: 1,224 Days Won: 3 Joined: 02/05/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted May 13, 2019 18 minutes ago, Sonshine☀️ said: Hi, fellow OSAS believer... I'd like to just add a little more to this always-interesting discussion, mainly on the subject of works. If we will slow it all down and read Ephesians 2:8-12 again, maybe we will see that both sides of the OSAS/OSNAS debate are actually right. It's God's Truth. Jesus never denied good works; He never said they had no value when He says that God renders to every man according to his works. (Romans 2:6) This is because works proceed from faith. Therefore, it is from Him that we have works of righteousness, from Whom comes also faith itself: "The just shall live by faith." (Hebrews 10:38). I think many believe that because Paul said "we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the works of the law, that this means that faith is sufficient to a believer even if he leads a bad life and has no good works. But then Paul adds, "but faith which worketh by love." (Galatians 5:6) Of course we know that even demons believe and tremble; however, they possess not the faith by which the just believer lives by--the faith which works by love in such a way that God rewards it with eternal life. So therefore, our good works are from God, from Whom also comes our faith and our love. These works belong to the grace of God! Amen? "Without Me ye can do nothing." The "not of works" means those works which have their origin in self alone. But we have to think of works for which Go has created us for. "We are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works. They are His good works, not ours. It's all God's grace. Even eternal life, which is the recompense of a good life, is the grace of God, freely given! Amen! Ephesians 2:8-12 King James Version (KJV) 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. I was teaching Sunday school a couple of months ago and this concept came up. I related a story to the class: A few days before class, I was on one of the deep back roads on my way to work (150 mile round trip) at around 5:30 a.m. and there was a car parked clumsily on the side of the road. 100 yards later I pass a guy carrying a gas can. I went another 200 yards and said, "what am I doing?!" I turned around and picked him up. I had been listening to a Michael Heiser podcast (the Naked Bible) and we talked about Christianity on our way to the gas station about seven miles down the road, and then when we got there I told him I'd wait. The good Samaritan came to mind. It is not enough to just drop him off at a gas station seven miles from his car. So I drove him back and made sure his car started. It did and he was merrily on his way to work. Here's the deal: It was almost as though I didn't have a choice. I simply HAD TO help him from beginning to end. It wasn't me. It was the Lord absolutely compelling me. i.e. I can take ZERO credit for it. And I really learned something from that encounter about who is responsible for every single "good" thing I do, no matter how big or small. And the cool thing is that it is like taking pleasure in it. It is similar to the feeling a boy sitting on the bengh gets in Little League when the coach sez, "Billy, get out there and pitch!" It is exciting and an honor that he chose you to do what he needed done. That you got to participate. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willa Posted May 13, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 68 Topic Count: 185 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 14,224 Content Per Day: 3.33 Reputation: 16,647 Days Won: 30 Joined: 08/14/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted May 13, 2019 11 hours ago, thomas t said: Hi all. Jesus told a doubter (Mt 11:4): the blind receive their sight and the lame walk, lepers are cleansed and the deaf hear, and the dead are raised up, and the poor have good news preached to them. This is the opposite of any posts telling a doubter that they should repent or burn in hell. So I will always distance myself from turn-or-burn posts. Thomas *It should read "repent or burn", but these words don't give a nice rhyme . Edit: Mt 11:4 uses εὐαγγέλιον in Greek meaning literally "GOOD news" according to Britannica.com. Our pastor says he always preaches the good news first, but then tells those who choose not to choose Christ that a fiery hell awaits those who reject Christ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willa Posted May 13, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 68 Topic Count: 185 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 14,224 Content Per Day: 3.33 Reputation: 16,647 Days Won: 30 Joined: 08/14/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted May 13, 2019 3 hours ago, shortangel said: ok here's my 2 cents, God doesn't want to send us to hell but if we keep sinning or turning our backs on him without repentance he will send us there, he wants everyone to come to repentance but not everyone will, it's our choice if we go to heaven or hell Amen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigger56 Posted May 13, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 679 Topics Per Day: 0.36 Content Count: 1,327 Content Per Day: 0.71 Reputation: 992 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/04/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted May 13, 2019 3 hours ago, JustPassingThru said: Brother, Father poured out ALL of His Wrath of the sins of ALL of humanity, past, present and future, on His Son, how do you think that felt to His human body, ...most of us have been desensitized by what actually took place on the Cross by the portrayal of it the media has present to us, ...but Truth is, read Psa 22, that's what our Lord went through, the physical pain, ...we can't even come close to imaginging in our minds, ...God's Holy Wrath had to be poured out on someone, so our Blessed Lord took it, for you, me and ALL who would believe in Him, so, those that don't receive Him, they are still guilty when they die, the punishment for their sin is still there because they chose to take it upon themselves, ...that's why the Gospel is called the Good News, ...at the Great White Throne Judgement their sin is still accounted to them, the punishment is still the same as that which Father poured out on His Son, ...yes God is Good and He is Love, that's who He is, the very fiber of His Being, ...but don't ever forget that along with that He is Holy, His Holiness is also woven into the very fiber of His Being, ...but Grace, God's Goodness and Love, for our sakes, were more influential than His Holiness when the decision was made in eternity past to save sinful humans, ...God MUST be faithful to Himself, He cannot deny His Holiness, He found a way to set it aside and not be unfaithful to Himself, ...but the Truth is, God is a Trinity, ...Father, Son, Holy Spirit, ...by faith we must believe it and receive it into ourselves, He is also Good, Love, Holy, ...by faith we must believe that also and receive it into ourselves. Like you, I've thougth about the pain when I've burned myself, and couldn't even begin to wrap my head around the thought of my whole body burning for Eternity, ...Father didn't program us, there isn't a file in our memory to put death in, place it in the file cabinet, close it and put it away out of sight, that's why we can't reconcile it within our hearts or spirit, ...it's always there in front of us, ...as motivation to preach the Gospel and save as many as possible from the penalty of their sin that is waiting for them. If we preach the Gospel without including eternal punishment, For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Rom 3:23 For the wages of sin is death; Rom 6:23 ...we have changed the gospel into another gospel, and we all know what the Holy Spirit said through Paul about that: But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. Gal 1:8, 9 Lord bless You quoted it yourself.... the wages of sin is death, not eternal life in torture. If it was eternal torture and this is what the Lord Jesus died for then why didn't he have to be eternally tortured in other's place instead of death. He paid the price by death. Yes, he suffered but no where near what eternal suffering would be. Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vlad Posted May 13, 2019 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 470 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 171 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/02/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/07/1946 Share Posted May 13, 2019 (edited) 12 hours ago, thomas t said: Hi all. Jesus told a doubter (Mt 11:4): the blind receive their sight and the lame walk, lepers are cleansed and the deaf hear, and the dead are raised up, and the poor have good news preached to them. This is the opposite of any posts telling a doubter that they should repent or burn in hell. So I will always distance myself from turn-or-burn posts. Thomas *It should read "repent or burn", but these words don't give a nice rhyme . Edit: Mt 11:4 uses εὐαγγέλιον in Greek meaning literally "GOOD news" according to Britannica.com. Hi, I am just curious why are you against repentance? Do you have some information or are you proud? You quoted Jesus Christ when He was doing miracles. Do you expect the same miracles as when Jesus was living here and doing miracles? What would you like or what do you expect. Jesus has not come in His glory to judge us yet. He will. And you sit tight and wait? Please explain. If you do not answer that means that you do not want a discussion and claim to know all the answers yourself. And then what is your post for? Edited May 13, 2019 by vlad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Bought 1953 Posted May 13, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 13 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,726 Content Per Day: 2.89 Reputation: 6,258 Days Won: 5 Joined: 12/03/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted May 13, 2019 46 minutes ago, Willa said: Our pastor says he always preaches the good news first, but then tells those who choose not to choose Christ that a fiery hell awaits those who reject Christ. My approach is just the opposite.....I don’t believe people are ready for the Good News until they have heard the Bad News....to each their own, I suppose.....lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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