"Turn or Burn" Is Not My Gospel

[thomas t]

12 hours ago, Tigger56 said:

You quoted it yourself.... the wages of sin is death, not eternal life in torture.

Very well pointed out, Tigger, thank you.

Thomas

[The_Patriot21]

23 hours ago, JustPassingThru said:

That's Arminian doctrine, ...completely 180° opposite of the Gospel of Grace! 

Thats actually not arminian....in any way, shape or form...arminians, just like John arminian, teach the onoy way to heaven is through Christ, and if you dont follow Christ your going to hell.

Where Arminian differs from Calvin, was he taught free will vs pre destination, and that you could lose your salvation vs not being able to, being the two big differences.

[Tigger56]

12 hours ago, JustPassingThru said:

Yes I quoted it myself so that you would question it...

What happens when someone dies, their spirit and soul leave the body, there is no longer any light in their eyes, the physical body is dead and the spirit and soul are separated from it, so death, in the Biblical sense, is actually a separation, ...that is what the Holy Spirit calls the first death, ...those who will stand before God at the Great White Throne Judgement will be cast into outer darkness, separated from God for all of Eternity, ...that is what the Holy Spirit calls the second death.

To clearly understand, the wages of sin is death (seperation), we need to remember Paul only had the Old Testament to draw from, so the Holy Spirit used it to enlighten him, to use the spiritual illustrations that are found in it, ...so let's look at Gen 2:17, the first place we find the word die in the Bible:

But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die die.

 ומעץH6086 הדעתH1847 טובH2896 ורעH7451 לאH3808 תאכלH398 ממנוH4480 כיH3588 ביוםH3117 אכלךH398 ממנוH4480 מותH  4191תמות ׃  H4191  Hebrew OT w/ Strong's #

Gen 2:17  αποG575 PREP δεG1161 PRT τουG3588 T-GSN ξυλουG3586 N-GSN τουG3588 T-GSN γινωσκεινG1097 V-PAN καλονG2570 A-ASN καιG2532 CONJ πονηρονG4190 A-ASN ουG3364 ADV φαγεσθεG2068 V-FMI-2P απG575 PREP αυτουG846 D-GSM ηG3739 R-DSF δG1161 PRT ανG302 PRT ημεραG2250 N-DSF φαγητεG2068 V-AAS-2P απG575 PREP αυτουG846 D-GSM θανατω G2288 N-DSM αποθανεισθε G599 V-FMI-2P Greek OT w/ Strong's #

Notice in the Hebrew the last two words mûth mûth, to die, both have the same Strong's number.

In the Greek the last two words are  different, but carry the same meaning:

thanatos - death - and apothnēskō - to die off

But don't believe me, I've given you the Strong's numbers, ...look them up for yourself.

So to paraphrase what God said to Adam: 

...for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely be dying and you will die!

Isn't that the Truth? From the moment of conception we begin to die until we reach the number of days that are written in the book of how long we will live, ...then we die.

So what the Holy Spirit is saying in Romans 6:23 is because of our sin we are storing up a payday, and when that day comes we will die, separated from our body and then at the Last Judgement we will receive in full our wages of/for sinning which is separation from God. 

...But, He goes on to tell us:

...the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

We earn our eternal punishment, ...but we can choose eternal life which is the Gift of God.

 

That's why we say:

Born twice, die once, ...born once, die twice...

Lord bless

Nope, eternal life is continuing to exist, be it in glory or in misery. Death is the end of existence. There is no mercy in eternal torture, I know my God will punish and will have to let some die forever, removed from memory. But feel due to God's mercy is will be far fewer than many seem to believe. But there will not be eternal torture.

[JustPassingThru]

6 hours ago, The_Patriot2019 said:

Thats actually not arminian....in any way, shape or form...arminians, just like John arminian, teach the onoy way to heaven is through Christ, and if you dont follow Christ your going to hell.

Where Arminian differs from Calvin, was he taught free will vs pre destination, and that you could lose your salvation vs not being able to, being the two big differences.

Yes you are correct brother, that is not what John Arminian taught, ...however the churches that claim to follow his doctrine today have metamorphosed it into turn or burn, it's used as a scare tactic because pastors are constantly under pressure from their denominational leaders to increase attendance, I heard it in my first church for three years and I'm hearing it hear in the AoG's, sorry, I didn't clarify that point, ...if John Arminian were alive today he, ...just like Calvin, would be shocked as to what is being taught in their names.

Lord bless  

[JustPassingThru]

4 hours ago, Tigger56 said:

Death is the end of existence.

But the Word teaches death is separation, ...if you don't want to believe it, there is nothing I can do about that, ...on the other side of the coin, ...have you found any verses in Scripture that support your belief?   Acts 17:11

Lord bless

[Tigger56]

5 minutes ago, JustPassingThru said:

But the Word teaches death is separation, ...if you don't want to believe it, there is nothing I can do about that, ...on the other side of the coin, ...have you found any verses in Scripture that support your belief?   Acts 17:11

Lord bless

Death is death. At the time we die as humans, our spirit does return unto the Lord and our physical bodies turn to dust. However, in the Lake of Fire death will be final. So I do understand where you indicate that death is a separation and that is true at our first death but not the final death.

[enoob57]

cessation of being is the wishful thinking of the thoughtless... we are created in God's image - does God cease?

[enoob57]

1 minute ago, Tigger56 said:

Death is death. At the time we die as humans, our spirit does return unto the Lord and our physical bodies turn to dust. However, in the Lake of Fire death will be final. So I do understand where you indicate that death is a separation and that is true at our first death but not the final death.

so how will we perish and worm does not?
Isa 14:11
Mark 9:44-49
Rev 14:10-11
 

[Tigger56]

Just now, enoob57 said:

so how will we perish and worm does not?
Isa 14:11
Mark 9:44-49
Rev 14:10-11
 

Ahhhh.... I was awaiting on someone that believed in the immortal worms!

[enoob57]

2 minutes ago, Tigger56 said:

Ahhhh.... I was awaiting on someone that believed in the immortal worms!

I see The Scripture as that which guides my heart and mind into truth that cannot be taken from me