Jump to content
IGNORED

Wheat and the Tares


tsth

Recommended Posts

Guest truespirit

Thanks for your description of the Scripture, Clio, as well as to all of the others here. That puts it into perspective very well for me. As someone that admittably has not explored the Biblical passages nearly as much as others, these help me. I'm going to come back to this again and review it, too. This is a fascinating perspective-I'll keep going over it until I understand it.

This has been an extremely complicated issue for me, personally. I am a Business Major. As the years have gone by, however, I no longer have much interest in business. While there are good Christians in every walk of life, I guess I've arrived at that point in life where the perspectives have changed quite deeply, and there's not a doubt in my mind that this has taken place as a result of prayer.

Unfortunately, I get very confused at this point, admittably. There are so many different opinions out there. If I've learned anything, it's that His Truth has to come from within, and belief has to be based on Scripture. That said, while I have asked Jesus into my heart and have repented for my sins, and have asked Him to take control of my life and to guide me, even though these types of issues are beginning to become a little more clear for me day to day with His help, I still have a lot to learn,to sort out, on the same hand.

The Scripture tells us there is nothing we can do to impress Him, moreless, and I understand that. On the same hand, however, what do you do if you have the desire within to get involved with volunteer/charitable work? Not because you feel that you have to in order to please God, but because your heart wants to do something like that?

The other area of concern that I still have in my own case goes back to the way that we're suppose to deal with others as Christians, those in need.

Here's an example-How do you approach a situation where one might come across an 18, 19 year old female that had been molested as a child, one that probably grew up in a home where God's love had not been taught to her by her parents, one or both of which might have been alcoholics, etc. Due to the background, the child has probably been involved with drug abuse, different sexual partners, etc. In the back of that child's mind, regardless of her outward behavior, she is certain to be crushed inside, untrusting, and will probably display behavior that is unbecoming. Not all, of course, but some. Sadly, one look at today's society/culture, and we know that there are many cases like this out there.

Though I have never heard or read a case to this exact description, I have watched several different characters like this make their way into Christian chatrooms. Whether it be this type of perceived background, or a homosexual that has come to ask Christians questions, one of the more common responses I've read is, "Repent for your sins now or you will go to hell. Accept Jesus Christ as your personal savior so you can be saved."

100% factual. That type of response is accurate, and in line with the Bible's teachings.

But what happens if that's not enough for this or that person (to change)? That's where I get very confused.

God blessed me in that I was able to grow up in a very loving, compassionate family. I suppose that we've had some hardships like everybody else-family illness, etc. But God really gave me a wonderful home with loving parents that have gone out of their way in life for their children. We're a very close family.

So what if I happened to come across a friend or acquaintence that grew up under these types of hardships? I've always had a soft spot for those in tough times or those that had bad childhoods. I also have a friend that is a counselor, and he's told me what type of shape so many of these people are in.

Regardless of the background, however, must the Christian immediately point out the evils of their lifestyle and warn them of hell right off the bat if they don't change? Given the psychological state that so many of these people are in, what if those words only hurt them further and they become hostile toward faith? That's the part that confuses me. My heart tells me one thing here, and it feels like the right one, but I've found myself second guessing a lot of what I've always believed in the more I've been diving into things like this.

God ='s love, and I have yet to see His love fail. So in a matter like this one, would a person be allowed to embrace the heart of the fallen, to comfort them and offer them hope, and once that has been done, regardless of how long it takes, than be allowed to speak to them about the true beauty of God's love?

Obviously, this is what my heart tells me is right, but yet often times when I read serious debate like this I understand that maybe I have been misguided in my interpretation. Obviously you don't extend love and kindness to a person that speaks out against God, but what about those that really don't know Him? Those are the difficult questions I've been dealing with now.

Ever since I have started this new journey with God, the biggest change I've had is to deal with the new found fear I have of Him. And that's a good thing. Though we all fall short of His glory, and we always will, there are many things that I've changed with my own life, and they've all been for the better.

The only problem I'm having now deals with the confusion that comes with the new perspective, I guess. It's very difficult to explain, unfortunately-I wouldn't be truthful if I didn't admit that when I read certain passeges like this one, I become a little uncomfortable. Every new question turns into five new ones for somebody like me, so there's a level of confusion that enters in.

I guess I was always one of those that embraced the loving side of Christ as much as I could, you know. I love those "Forgive your enemy" and "Help the poor" examples/rules set forth by Jesus. When I start to think about these types of areas, the fear tends to take away from those areas a little bit.

That's not to say that I get to pick and choose from the Bible as I please, I understand that now. I guess it's just been such a new thing for me to actually tremble with fear in respect to the God I've always known and loved. But that was my fault for not having studied the Bible like I should've been through the years.

Now it's all about making sense of it all, to keep up with your old ways of believing in the beauty of Jesus like you always have, but to also sort through all of the new perspectives as well, those lessons/rules that fall within the meaning of these examples.

Thankfully, I know I'm at the right place for help. You guys will help me out with all of this, I know that.

Thanks again for sharing all of the perspectives here. Take care now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 122
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic


  • Group:  Members
  • Followers:  1
  • Topic Count:  3
  • Topics Per Day:  0.00
  • Content Count:  62
  • Content Per Day:  0.01
  • Reputation:   0
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  01/23/2006
  • Status:  Offline
  • Birthday:  12/08/1962

Thanks for your description of the Scripture, Clio, as well as to all of the others here. That puts it into perspective very well for me. As someone that admittably has not explored the Biblical passages nearly as much as others, these help me. I'm going to come back to this again and review it, too. This is a fascinating perspective-I'll keep going over it until I understand it.

I'm so glad you were blessed truespirit. If you receive a blessing from anything I write it is because Abba Father has blessed you and the Spirit has granted you discernment. It is nothing that came from my mind.

This has been an extremely complicated issue for me, personally. I am a Business Major. As the years have gone by, however, I no longer have much interest in business. While there are good Christians in every walk of life, I guess I've arrived at that point in life where the perspectives have changed quite deeply, and there's not a doubt in my mind that this has taken place as a result of prayer.

He is always faithful when one presses into Him with a sincere desire to know His will.

Unfortunately, I get very confused at this point, admittably. There are so many different opinions out there. If I've learned anything, it's that His Truth has to come from within, and belief has to be based on Scripture. That said, while I have asked Jesus into my heart and have repented for my sins, and have asked Him to take control of my life and to guide me, even though these types of issues are beginning to become a little more clear for me day to day with His help, I still have a lot to learn,to sort out, on the same hand.

How clearly I remember my own confusion when He began to destroy in me, all the strongholds of rebellion, deceit, fear, works oriented salvation, and all the rest. As you walk more and more in His guidance, you will begin to recognize when His hand is moving, and the joy of knowing He trusts you enough to use you in His plans will overwhelm you. When you get the Holy Spirit joy (I perceive it a spiritual bubbles and joy), remember to pray immediately for protection and then DUCK! We are told in Scripture that the "Joy of the Lord is our Strength". Over the years, I've found when I get the "joy" for no particular reason, a serious attack from the Adversary follows, and the joy was given so I could get through it.

[qoute]The Scripture tells us there is nothing we can do to impress Him, moreless, and I understand that. On the same hand, however, what do you do if you have the desire within to get involved with volunteer/charitable work? Not because you feel that you have to in order to please God, but because your heart wants to do something like that?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest truespirit

Clio, I can't begin to tell you much comfort I have received from your words. Once you begin this journey, it's easy to become a little confused as far as direction, etc. Thankfully, when you pray for help, He answers, and there's not a doubt in my mind that your words here were part of His blessing for me today. Bless you, Clio. There isn't a single doubt in my mind that the Holy Spirit rests with you. You are a true servant.

Take care, my friend. Take great pride by the gifts that God has placed in you-they are so apparent. I am thrilled to know that God has placed you in a position to help those of His children that need a heart like your own in order to reach through to Him.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Members
  • Followers:  1
  • Topic Count:  3
  • Topics Per Day:  0.00
  • Content Count:  62
  • Content Per Day:  0.01
  • Reputation:   0
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  01/23/2006
  • Status:  Offline
  • Birthday:  12/08/1962

Clio, I can't begin to tell you much comfort I have received from your words. Once you begin this journey, it's easy to become a little confused as far as direction, etc. Thankfully, when you pray for help, He answers, and there's not a doubt in my mind that your words here were part of His blessing for me today. Bless you, Clio. There isn't a single doubt in my mind that the Holy Spirit rests with you. You are a true servant.

Take care, my friend. Take great pride by the gifts that God has placed in you-they are so apparent. I am thrilled to know that God has placed you in a position to help those of His children that need a heart like your own in order to reach through to Him.

Truespirit, I am blessed that you are blessed. But I have no pride in me for this. You received a blessing because Abba blessed you. Whatever gifts He has given me, are... temporary. And they change from time to time as His tasks assigned to me change.

There is nothing for which I should be proud, only grateful, and humbled that He would trust me enough to use me to forward His plans.

Pride in Abba given beauty, talent, and intellect is what got Lucifer into trouble to begin with.

Clio

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest truespirit

"Pride in Abba given beauty, talent, and intellect is what got Lucifer into trouble to begin with."

I see what you mean here, Clio. Vanity can be a very dangerous thing. The person with Christ in his/her heart is a person sitting in the passenger's seat. I read that description one time, and that's making more and more sense to me.

"There is nothing for which I should be proud, only grateful, and humbled that He would trust me enough to use me to forward His plans."

That's worded much better, Clio. Grateful would've been the better term to use.

Edited by truespirit
Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Members
  • Followers:  1
  • Topic Count:  3
  • Topics Per Day:  0.00
  • Content Count:  62
  • Content Per Day:  0.01
  • Reputation:   0
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  01/23/2006
  • Status:  Offline
  • Birthday:  12/08/1962

"Pride in Abba given beauty, talent, and intellect is what got Lucifer into trouble to begin with."

I see what you mean here, Clio. Vanity can be a very dangerous thing. The person with Christ in his/her heart is a person sitting in the passenger's seat. I read that description one time, and that's making more and more sense to me.

"There is nothing for which I should be proud, only grateful, and humbled that He would trust me enough to use me to forward His plans."

That's worded much better, Clio. Grateful would've been the better term to use.

:24: No worries. In the ministries in which He chooses to use me, a clean conscience is a must. And there is no room for pride or vanity. Its too close to its original source.

Clio

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Nonbeliever
  • Followers:  0
  • Topic Count:  0
  • Topics Per Day:  0
  • Content Count:  8
  • Content Per Day:  0.00
  • Reputation:   1
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  02/03/2006
  • Status:  Offline

"Pride in Abba given beauty, talent, and intellect is what got Lucifer into trouble to begin with."

I see what you mean here, Clio. Vanity can be a very dangerous thing. The person with Christ in his/her heart is a person sitting in the passenger's seat. I read that description one time, and that's making more and more sense to me.

"There is nothing for which I should be proud, only grateful, and humbled that He would trust me enough to use me to forward His plans."

That's worded much better, Clio. Grateful would've been the better term to use.

:wub: No worries. In the ministries in which He chooses to use me, a clean conscience is a must. And there is no room for pride or vanity. Its too close to its original source.

Clio

Greetings in His Name

Amen to the clean conscience and we are told to learn to worship in both spirit and truth. That being said and since we are taught that judgment comes first to the house of the Lord does that not seem to indicate that the tares that are mixed in with the wheat are part of that house? The harvest process for wheat includes threshing but not burning.

Threshing in itself denotes beating and that seems to me to indicate that it too can be a somewhat painful experience but we are told that we can expect to be pruned if He determines that more fruit is possible.

On the other hand barley is processed by "winnowing" and that is simply allowing the breeze of the air to separate it from the chaff. How nice it is to just have a little coaxing of the spirit (breeze of air) to bring about the desired effect.

Now grapes have to be trodden and crushed consequently they denote the final harvest and it is very interesting (to me) that Gideon (who represented barley) was threshing wheat in a winepress.

By considering what I have written is it possible that we have either assumed or overlooked to much in the parable that started this thread?

Peace and Blessings

Douglas

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest truespirit

Boy is this interesting, you guys. This will take me a week to figure this all out now, I think. I don't know anything about farming, either, so it could take me even longer~!

"Amen to the clean conscience and we are told to learn to worship in both spirit and truth."

Douglas, now I have a question for you, my friend, if you don't mind. Clio might be able to answer this, too.

Clio, you say that it's mandatory that one has a clear conscious in ministry. What do you mean there, exactly? Are you saying that you can't have any doubt that what you're doing is the right thing for that particular place and purpose? I am so sorry to keep troubling you, but you keep mentioning things that interest me like this again. Thanks for the help if you find the time to respond.

Douglas, I think I understand what you mean by worshiping in truth (For it to be real, to be honest with God). But what do you mean exactly by worshiping in spirit? This is another one of those things where it feels like I know what you're saying inside but yet I trip myself up by trying to understand the wording perfectly. I know that the Christian has the Holy Spirit with Him/Her, but what do you mean by worshipping in spirit, exactly? I might know what your terminology means here but I just want to be sure.

Thanks so much again, you guys. God Bless.

Edited by truespirit
Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Members
  • Followers:  1
  • Topic Count:  3
  • Topics Per Day:  0.00
  • Content Count:  62
  • Content Per Day:  0.01
  • Reputation:   0
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  01/23/2006
  • Status:  Offline
  • Birthday:  12/08/1962

"Amen to the clean conscience and we are told to learn to worship in both spirit and truth."

Douglas, now I have a question for you, my friend, if you don't mind. Clio might be able to answer this, too.

Clio, you say that it's mandatory that one has a clear conscious in ministry. What do you mean there, exactly? Are you saying that you can't have any doubt that what you're doing is the right thing for that particular place and purpose? I am so sorry to keep troubling you, but you keep mentioning things that interest me like this again. Thanks for the help if you find the time to respond.

Thanks so much again, you guys. God Bless.

No. I'm not saying it is necessary to have no doubts. But I find that in the particular path He has me walking, all is much smoother if I do my housekeeping (spiritually) daily. That means, when I get up in the morning, I talk to Abba about what happened the day before. I ask Him to bring to mind all that I did that displeased Him, and for which I need forgiveness. If He doesn't bring anything in particular to mind, I ask Him for a clean heart, washed in True Jesus Blood, and to renew a right spirit within me.

Then, I put on my armor as its given in Ephesians 6, asking Him for each piece of it, and recognizing that each piece represents different attributes and characteristics of my Saviour.

With that done, I pray whatever is on my prayer list. I keep a prayer journal so I can identify and remind myself in the bad times all the wonderful, marvelous, fantastic, answers to prayer and blessings He has brought into my life. It also reminds me of His faithfulness. Once I've made it through my prayer list, I tend to keep up a running conversation with Jesus for the rest of the day. About stuff... whatever comes to mind.

Thus, no matter what He asks of me that day, unless I have deliberately done something I KNOW is sin, I have a clean conscience before Him, and can approach the Throne boldly on behalf of those in need.

You might want to read my post in the Spiritual Warfare section on the Armor of Ephesians 6 and why it works.

Clio

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Nonbeliever
  • Followers:  0
  • Topic Count:  0
  • Topics Per Day:  0
  • Content Count:  8
  • Content Per Day:  0.00
  • Reputation:   1
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  02/03/2006
  • Status:  Offline

Greetings Again truespirit

Worshipping in spirit and truth is a topic mandatory for understanding however is outside the purpose and original intent of this thread. I am new here and if I knew where this topic is the post subject, I would comment on it. When I am a liitle more aware of the forum rules and where I should start a new thread I will do so.

Blessings

Doug

Edited by Livelystone
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...