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Last Daze

The Impetus for "Peace and Safety!"

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On 5/21/2019 at 9:52 AM, Last Daze said:

How about the death of the first born where the blood of the lamb was absent?  Regardless, the example is valid.  God knows who is His and is able to protect His people from His wrath, wherever they are. 

I agree, just not within the wrath. In an Ark or a Valley sure, just not out on a walkabout.

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1 hour ago, Diaste said:

This always happens doesn't it? We begin with a topic and then chase a rabbit! :) 

I like it. It's all about learning more about our Savior and as long as we don't bring up extrabiblical points like the price of tea in China it's all the same subject.

That being said I'll chase the rabbit down the hole. 

The Seventh Seal

When the Lamb opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour. And I saw the seven angels who stand before God, and they were given seven trumpets.

Then another angel, who had a golden censer, came and stood at the altar. He was given much incense to offer, along with the prayers of all the saints, on the golden altar before the throne. And the smoke of the incense, together with the prayers of the saints, rose up before God from the hand of the angel.

Then the angel took the censer, filled it with fire from the altar, and hurled it to the earth; and there were peals of thunder, and rumblings, and flashes of lightning, and an earthquake.

 

The Seventh Trumpet

Then the seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and loud voices called out in heaven:

Then the temple of God in heaven was opened, and the ark of His covenant appeared in His temple. And there were flashes of lightning, and rumblings, and peals of thunder, and an earthquake, and a great hailstorm.

 

The Seventh Bowl of Wrath

Then the seventh angel poured out his bowl into the air, and a loud voice came from the throne in the temple, saying, “It is done!”

And there were flashes of lightning, and rumblings, and peals of thunder, and a great earthquake the likes of which had not occurred since men were upon the earth—so mighty was the great quake. The great city was split into three parts, and the cities of the nations collapsed. And God remembered Babylon the great and gave her the cup of the wine of the fury of His wrath.

Then every island fled, and no mountain could be found. And huge hailstones, about a hundred pounds each, rained down on them from above. And men cursed God for the plague of hail, because it was so horrendous.

While I understand the Triune of Sevens are sequential individually, it sure looks to me like they are not successive to each other. It appears they run more or less concurrently, not one for one but all within the same allotted time, culminating at the preordained end of man's government and ushering in the reign of Jesus.

Unless the above described events happen three times, but I'm dubious.

In my fantasy world then Seals open and at some point Trumps begin sounding; before all the Seals open. The 6th Trump gathers the 200 million man army and the 6th Bowl paves the way, essentially allowing them to enter the Holy Land and fill the Valley of Decision. Christ is atop the Mount of Olives which split allowing safe haven for all that can get there before the final battle; might take some time for everyone to flee into the valley all while the Great Army is marching to it's certain doom. 

So then as the people flee to the Safe Valley all the bowls are poured out at once and the effects begin to run their course.

The only exception here is the 7th Trump which must sound before wrath as it's the clarion call to the dead and living in Christ.

In the above examples the "flashes of lightning, and rumblings, and peals of thunder, and an earthquake, and a great hailstorm."

are only seen at the 7th Trump while at the 7th Seal and 7th Bowl they are respectively:

"the censer, filled it with fire from the altar, and hurled it to the earth; and there were peals of thunder, and rumblings, and flashes of lightning, and an earthquake." and

"flashes of lightning, and rumblings, and peals of thunder, and a great earthquake the likes of which had not occurred since men were upon the earth—so mighty was the great quake."

So then the 7th trump calls us up, both dead and living, to Jesus and the 7th Seal and 7th Bowl occur together and are the very end of the ways of mankind and the beginning of Peace.

Or so I see it.

Yes, there is some common language between the three "7ths".  The 7th plague (7th trumpet and 7th bowl) describe the same day, the day of the Lord, so it makes sense that they would be similar.

  • When the Lamb broke the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour.  And I saw the seven angels who stand before God, and seven trumpets were given to them.  Rev 8:1-2

The seven plague angels don't receive their trumpets until the seventh seal is broken.  That to me is a sequential marker establishing that the plagues don't begin until after the seventh seal has been opened.

The common characteristics between the 7th seal and the 7th plague would be lightning, thunder, and an earthquake.  The difference is that the 7th plague has huge hailstones and an extremely cataclysmic, terraforming earthquake.  What takes place at the 7th seal (lightning, thunder, earthquake) is not uncommon.  What takes place at the 7th plague (additional 100 lb. hailstones, unprecedented earthquake) is unique.  Since the plagues don't begin until after the 7th seal is opened, I don't see the events of the 7th seal as being the same as the events of the 7th plague; similar, yes, but not the same.

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2 hours ago, Diaste said:

Could be. I continue to think that Jesus knew the prophecy would be read in it's entirety well before the foretold events and inserted the warning at a description of circumstances most dire; as if to remind us how quickly this would come upon us and not to get caught unaware and not necessarily as evidence of previous or ensuing events.

I don't know what the point of the warning would be when it's clear wrath is occurring and if indeed the warning only comes between the 6th and 7th bowl it's moot, to wit;

8 Next, the fourth angel poured out his bowl on the sun, and it was given power to scorch the people with fire. 9 And the people were scorched by intense heat, and they cursed the name of God, who had authority over these plagues; yet they did not repent and give Him glory.

10 And the fifth angel poured out his bowl on the throne of the beast, and its kingdom was plunged into darkness, and men began to gnaw their tongues in anguish 11 and curse the God of heaven for their pains and sores; yet they did not repent of their deeds.

The language suggests the fourth bowl effects the whole earth.

You could be right, but I'm not convinced.

The first six plagues are God's judgment of those who worship the man of sin.  They start off as a fraction of what they will become and get more severe as they progress.  Their purpose is to properly restore His sanctuary.  Once that goal is achieved, and there is no more repentance, the two witnesses are killed and the armies gather at Armageddon.  The warning of Rev 16:15 is for those who were restored to stay that way during the days that the armies are gathering.  The seventh plague is the great day of His wrath, the day of the Lord.

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Posted (edited)
On 5/14/2019 at 9:48 AM, Last Daze said:

People don't typically go around declaring "peace and safety" as a normal part of their daily lives, at least not that I've observed.  If such a declaration is made, it's because there's a reason for saying it.

  • For you yourselves know full well that the day of the Lord will come just like a thief in the night.  While they are saying, “Peace and safety!” then destruction will come upon them suddenly like labor pains upon a woman with child, and they will not escape. 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3

Who are "they" and why do they say "peace and safety?"  Clearly, "they" are the ones who are destroyed on the day of the Lord, but why are they declaring peace and safety?

The Jews and the world will be saying peace and safety at the time because -

It will be following Gog/Magog.   And the prince who shall come will be anointed the King of Israel as the Jews will think that he is the messiah.     As the Jews and rest of the world accordingly, will think they have entered the early stages of the messianic age.

About three years into it, the Antichrist will be betray the Jews and the Mt Sinai covenant he confirms earlier to begin the 7 years, by going into the temple, sitting, claiming to be God.    Which that act triggers the beginning of the Day of the Lord.

Edited by douggg

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