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Misunderstandings by some about Saving Grace

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5 minutes ago, Blood Bought 1953 said:

 

If this guy did what he claimed.....what did it get him?

A  clear  conscience.

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2 minutes ago, Firm Foundation said:

A  clear  conscience.

 

Was he proud of his accomplishment? Do his friends call him “ Holy Spirit. Jr.?”

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9 minutes ago, Blood Bought 1953 said:

 

Was he proud of his accomplishment? Do his friends call him “ Holy Spirit. Jr.?”

He didn't see it as anything special he did.  He said that God sanctified him, and would do it for anyone else that sought it.  He was a believer in Wesleyan doctrine that sanctification is a work of grace.

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13 minutes ago, Blood Bought 1953 said:

 

Was he proud of his accomplishment? Do his friends call him “ Holy Spirit. Jr.?”

The Bible says when we have done all the Lord commands us to do, say we are unprofitable servants, because that is just doing our duty.  There is nothing to get lifted up in just because you obey the Lord.  It is as simple as just choosing not to sin.  How hard is that?  It is a choice.

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6 hours ago, gordon7777 said:
Psalm 62:4 They only consult to cast him down from his excellency: they delight in lies: they bless with their mouth, but they curse inwardly. Selah.

Proverbs 16:2... All the ways of a man are clean in his own sight, but the LORD weighs the motives.

1 Samuel 16:7b... ...for God sees not as man sees, for man looks at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart. 

Psalm 139:1... O LORD, You have searched me and known me.

1 Kings 8:39... ...then hear in heaven Your dwelling place, and forgive and act and render to each according to all his ways, whose heart You know, for You alone know the hearts of all the sons of men.  

Jeremiah 17:10... "I, the LORD, search the heart.  I test the mind.  Even to give to each man according to his ways, according to the results of his deeds.

Selah....

@gordon7777  We are all believers here who passionately love our Redeemer.  We do not delight in lies, but firmly believe in the inerrant word of God.  We study, learn, and grow, praise, work, and worship-- just as I imagine you do.  No one here is cursing you or challenging your salvation.  I really do not understand why you would reject anyone's wanting God's blessing for you, but... it's your choice to view it as a curse.

6 hours ago, gordon7777 said:

Who is blessed, according to Christ and not sonshine or any alike to that way? The poor in spirit, the mourners, the meek, not the exalted, not the happy, not the ones who feel high and mighty, the ones who thirst for righteousness, which is the ones who believe in Christs way to lay our lives down, not keep our lives in the way of man, but the merciful, the pure in heart, not the ones who speak out against Christ's teaching to justify their own impurity, the peace makers, the ones who do much more than sinners, the persecuted, as they follow Christ faithfully, or would not be persecuted for righteousness sake would they ? When you are reviled for the sake of Christ, this is doing well, this is not possible for these so called "saved" people, but they should have walked in the shoes before them, the prophets persecuted till their deaths, and then Christ and the Holy Apostles of the Lord the same way, bearing about always in the body the death o the Lord Jesus until beheaded for this same testimony of Christ..

Psalm 27:13 says, "I would have lost heart, unless I had believed that I would see the goodness of the LORD in the land of the living."  And I have seen the goodness of the LORD.  I have been reborn and His Spirit is dwelling in me.  Because of that, I am not easily offended, but the Spirit within is grieved when anyone calls my fellow believers "so-called 'saved' people."  In this way, I am reviled as well, since I place full confidence, without a doubt, in God's plan to rescue me.  I posted the scriptures above in love to remind you that ONLY our Father knows our hearts.  We are not yours to judge.  We are His.  

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Heb 10:26  For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27  But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

there sure is a lot of misunderstanding on grace.  a point of interest would be the word indignation.  look it up.  it holds the meaning of a Husband thats jealous.  and who in the bible is referred to as an adversary? 

I am not seeing where someone has said so and so is not saved... but I have seen people being called a legalist. 

it only takes 2 short verses in Hebrews 10 to debunk hypergrace.  thats all.  even shorter... Hypergrace = Heresy.  and thats good math.  it adds up. 

so take note, when someone says you cant go on sinning wilfully the above verses do indeed say there is no more sacrifice for sins.  And we know there is only one sacrifice God accepts for sin atonement.  it is scriptural to say and believe this.  not its impossible to fall away. 

 

 

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On 5/15/2019 at 2:59 AM, Debp said:

A few here mistakenly think those of us who are born again by grace through faith and accept Christ's finished work for our salvation are not walking with Jesus.   Over and over they claim we have a license to sin, and therefore are leading sinful lives.

Some even claim that we are taught by pastors not to do any works as we are relying on grace.   Of course, this is untrue.   I've been born again since the early 1970s and have never heard any pastors preaching against doing good works.   Rather we were taught to have a quiet time (prayer/Bible reading) with the Lord so we could grow spiritually.    Of course growing spiritually includes good works, but we know we are not saved or kept saved by good works.   The Holy Spirit is a definite factor in our hearts/lives as we grow spiritually (are sanctified) throughout our lives...it is not just self effort.

I hope the few with the above misunderstandings will stop continually perpetuating these untruths.    We seek to live holy lives but it is something that comes from our hearts that have been changed by the Lord when we were born again.  "But as many as received Him, to them gave He power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on His name; which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God." John 1:12-13.

 

 

"We seek to live holy lives but it is something that comes from our hearts that have been changed by the Lord when we were born again."

 

I understand the idea, but it does go against the Word of God.  You take John 1:12-13 as meaning that when you became a Christian you are no longer having free will, that God has taken over your hearts and causing you to be Christians.  But that defeats the entire point of this test called life, God can mind control satan to be holy and righteous so that he could enter eternal life.  But God does not want an army of robots in eternity, he wants righteous people that have proven they love him and seek to be righteous no matter how hard it is.

 

1 Peter 1:6 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations:

1 Peter 1:That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

1 Peter 1:Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:

1 Peter 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

 

We are told by Peter that our faith will be tested, but if we endure we "might be found unto praise and honor and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ".  Not because God is controlling us to be good, but because "whom having not seen, ye love: in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing".

 

1 peter 1:13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;

1 peter 1:14 As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:

1 peter 1:15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;

1 peter 1:16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

1 peter 1:17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:

 

We are told directly to "gird up the loins of your mind....as obedient children, not fashioning yourself according to the former lusts in your ignorance...But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation....the Father, who...judgeth according to every man's work".  The point is made clear here, we are not to live according to the "former lusts in your ignorance", which means John 1:12-13 is talking about those that received God into their lives was given "power" which is the Word of God as we are told the truth is our sword to fight evil, so once we learned the truth about God's Word we are to be "obedient" and follow it instead of returning to our sinful ways when we were in "ignorance".  Peter himself says "the Father...Judgeth according to every man's work", that God does not care who you are or who you claim to be, all that matters to the Father is if you are living in righteousness and proving your faith is strong by your works.

 

Matthew 26:40 And he cometh unto the disciples, and findeth them asleep, and saith unto Peter, What, could ye not watch with me one hour?

Matthew 26:41 Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.

 

1 John 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

 

In these Scriptures both Jesus and John are giving us the same teaching, that we are sinners and will fall short, so we need to "watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation".  Nothing about God preventing us from falling into temptation, but telling us if we say we are Christians but do evil we are liars.  But if we do our best to walk in the light, we will fall short and sin against God, but Jesus will forgive us as long as we confess our sins.  Again the forgiveness of sins is not automatic, that God takes over our lives and as we mess up God keeps hitting us with automatic forgiveness.  Part of seeking to be righteous is to acknowledge we did something wrong, confess it to God and ask for forgiveness in Jesus' name, then moving forward not do it again.

 

Matthew 25:14 For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.

Matthew 25:15 And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey.

Matthew 25:16 Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents.

Matthew 25:17 And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two.

Matthew 25:18 But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord's money.

Matthew 25:27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.

Matthew 25:28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.

Matthew 25:30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

 

I think this is one of the greatest parables when it comes to Grace vs Works, so we hear Jesus' words on the matter from himself.  Jesus starts by explaining the Kingdom of Heaven in flesh terms, that Jesus Christ is the "man travelling into a far country", which of course is Jesus raising from the dead and going to Heaven to leave us to continue Christianity without him here physically.  Then we are told Jesus "called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods", this is the calling of the faith and Jesus opening our eyes to become Christians, then giving us his goods which are the "Spiritual gifts" we are given like preaching, healing, helps, etc.  "one he gave five...another two...another one; to every man according to his several ability", which the Word of God tells us the Father gives us knowledge and works based on our the measure we can handle, some Christians have lots of works and knowledge while others have less.  Then we move on to our Christian walk in our lives, "he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents...but he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord's money....thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers", so with the gifts of the Spirit that we are given we are commanded by Jesus that we are suppose to use them to spread the Word of God and bring Glory to the Holy Father so we can receive the praise from Jesus on his return.  But those that do not do God's work, but are too ashamed, when Jesus returns he will "take therefore the talent from him...and cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness".  The hard truth is, if you have not lived by God's Word and do not have works when Jesus returns, he will take your "crown of life" and throw you with the non-believers during his thousand year reign.

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3 hours ago, Blood Bought 1953 said:

Yeshua taught in the Lord's Prayer, that God DOES NOT FORGIVE US unless we first have forgiven those who have sinned against us:

That would still hold true , but something happened that changed everything —- the Cross.Your sins are forgiven before you even think of committing them.

 

 

 

Yeshua, being the Person of God, knew the Cross was ahead of Him.   The Lord's prayer has nothing to do with the Law or with Grace, much like the 10 Commandments, do not have relationship to the Law or Grace.    And we should always abide by them, especially the ones that Yeshua redefined.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Cletus said:

 

Heb 10:26  For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27  But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

there sure is a lot of misunderstanding on grace.  a point of interest would be the word indignation.  look it up.  it holds the meaning of a Husband thats jealous.  and who in the bible is referred to as an adversary? 

I am not seeing where someone has said so and so is not saved... but I have seen people being called a legalist. 

it only takes 2 short verses in Hebrews 10 to debunk hypergrace.  thats all.  even shorter... Hypergrace = Heresy.  and thats good math.  it adds up. 

so take note, when someone says you cant go on sinning wilfully the above verses do indeed say there is no more sacrifice for sins.  And we know there is only one sacrifice God accepts for sin atonement.  it is scriptural to say and believe this.  not its impossible to fall away. 

 

 

Every day I grow more and more worried for blood bought .    He is giving folks a license to sin .  He may not support sin , but he is giving folks a free pass to will full sin .

He has no idea the danger he is in .

There are others here who may be osas ,   but I do not even see them saying what blood bought implies .    

We should examine how he approaches sin and how all the apostles did .    And what a major difference in the two .   

Yet our pattern should be identical to the pattern set in that bible .     If not we are misunderstanding something big time .

I know what the problem is ,   anything to do with working out our own salvation with fear and trembling ,    Has been turned into legalism .

They took a big part of the original pattern set by CHRIST and kept by the apostels away from the church .   is it then any wonder why error only begat more error .

We gotta do something .     They think we are legalists ,  and have no idea we are simply keeping the same pattern the early church did .   Guess paul, james and

some of us are all legalists .   Cletus you just don't know how worried I am about this for some .    Wait ,  you actually do ,  you seem worried for them too .

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