Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Behold

Salvation vs Legalism

Recommended Posts

Gospel : Paul teaching = "preaching of the Cross". "we preach Christ Crucified"..."Jesus sent me not to baptize but to preach the Gospel".."faith comes by hearing this".....

So, all that, if believed by an unbeliever resolves an eternal issue......
What is the issue?
What is God's purpose for coming to earth to die as Jesus The Christ on a Cross?
What is He doing?...What is He alone solving, that all our 10 commandment keeping and holy lifestyle can never solve, which is WHY HE had to solve it? ?
And right here is what is so often misunderstood, or not taught correctly, and this is why so many people who mean well, and love Jesus, or would like to love him, do not understand <>WHAT IS<> the actual reason that God came here to die.

So what is that reason?
The reason, is that keeping the law, the 10 commandments, and doing good works, confessing sin, and living as holy as we can, could not make us acceptable to God..
And here is the "catch 22".... It also can't AFTER you are saved.
And right here is where "Legalism vs Grace" becomes the touchstone of constant fighting on forums, and everywhere else that it can show up where believers WILL clash.
(Apparently this clash became such a long standing fight and fury on this forum that members here are barred from posting- fighting about it.)

It is a fact and statement of the CROSS that the law and the 10 Commandments can't make you righteous, they can only show you that you are unrighteous., as that is the actual purpose of the Law, as well as outlining what God expects regarding our basic moral conduct & behavior, once we are born again.
So, how can it be that half the body of Christ is trying to keep all this, all these works, and they believe that this is "keeping them saved".
Whereas the other half of the body of Christ is trusting in Jesus to keep them saved.
So, do you see the line in the sand?
Its this " What is keeping you SAVED"....that is the minefield of theological confusion.
THATS the fight.
Legalism vs Grace.
Its happening on every forum like this one, and its the reason for 5000 denominations that don't agree, and 300 bibles that don't agree.
This issue started with Paul and his preaching of "justification by Faith" >alone, and he wrote the letter to the Galatians that talks about it, and explains it.
2000 yrs later, this issue of Legalism vs Grace is still a fist fight between "Christians".
Here on this forum, apparently they outlawed the battle. 

Isn't it interesting to realize that if the 10 commandments, or lawkeeping, or living holy, could save you or keep you saved, if that were the truth, then Jesus could have stayed in Heaven and saved Himself some PAIN.....
But ita not the case.
Now im not certain what you have been taught, but i teach that you "present your body a living sacrifice" and you to "live holy as God is holy", not to save yourself or keep yourself saved, but because this is what you should do, and what God expects, .. because you ARE saved.
The Legalist would argue that .."no, you do it to stay saved", and if you don't then you're not.
I wonder, reader, what you believe.
However, keep it to yourself, as this is between you and God, tho make sure you get it right, as if you get it wrong and you are teaching it, then Galatians 1:8 has become quite a literal issue for you.

So, leaving all that now, lets just look at the problem that God had to come here and solve for us, as to look at this, is to understand the reason for Salvation which is to understand Salvation.
Our problem we had, before we were saved, is only one thing, one issue only. And God Himself had to solve it, because we can't.
We are born, and we get older, and we don't have any righteousness.
None.
And so, God can't accept us, because we are UNRIGHTEOUS. 
This is "lost", "unsaved"....hellbound = we don't have any RIGHTEOUSNESS< as all of ours, are "filthy rags".
So, in steps SALVATION... Down from Heaven God as The Christ arrives... The Cross has been raised.... As God bleeding out on the "tree" has come down from Heaven to give us HIS righteousness so that He can accept us, based on THAT.......and for no other reason will He accept you, or me.
God, literally became a man, and died on a Cross, to GIVE US "the righteousness of Christ". (God's very own righteousness).
And that is what salvation actually is....Its God coming to earth to give us His righteousness so that HE can accept us, as by giving us His very righteousness, this makes us acceptable to God.
Welcome to Salvation.
Salvation is only.... "what makes you acceptable to God"....and that is one thing, its GOD'S Righteousness, becoming ours.
A born again person, has literally BECOME "the righteousness of Christ", and Christ is GOD.

To say that God's Grace is amazing, is really the least of what it is...
How can you describe the wonder of God, dying to give you His righteousness in place of your unrighteousness, as a free Gift?
Is there a word that can even claim to honor this spiritual transaction enough?
Just one.
LOVE.
Agape` Love.
God is LOVE.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Notice, the end terrible times do not have legalists, they have boasters, prideful, disobedient, unthankful unholy, trucebreakers, fierce, despisers of good, heady, highminded, led away with sins, reprobate concerning the faith, lovers of your own selves, surely you see this is you who do the same things ? If you want the other path, it is perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works, from your instruction in righteousness..

2 Timothy 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
9 But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as their's also was.
10 But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience,
11 Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me.
12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.
13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.
14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It isn't salvation verses legalism, since the Bible never mentions legalism.  It can be salvation verses trying to be saved by doing good works and not accepting Jesus as your Lord and Saviour.  If you don't believe in Jesus, you can't be saved.  I could just as easily start a thread on salvation verses faith in OSAS, because they are not one and the same.  To trust in OSAS is to trust in a false and man made doctrine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Strange how everyone gets hung up on their understanding of how we are saved, yet ignore that Jesus said,'If you Love ME you Will obey ME/my commandments.' John 14:15

What is interesting is, do we Love Jesus and how do we show it?

We are not bound to obey the law/commandments but we bind ourselves because as Christians we do Love Jesus, don't we.

 

So how hard is it to obey someone you love?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
20 hours ago, gordon7777 said:

Notice, the end terrible times do not have legalists, they have boasters, prideful, disobedient, unthankful unholy, trucebreakers, fierce, despisers of good, heady, highminded, led away with sins, 

Actually the pride of the legalist is worse then all these works of the flesh, that you post in your list.

The reason the pride of the legalist is worse, is because a Legalist is not trusting in CHRIST ALONE< to keep them saved......and this means they are pitting, they are evaluating their own WORKS as their savior, and this insults the Holy Spirit, and denies the Cross its Power, and Jesus His Blood Atonement.

Legalism, is a person who has put themselves on the Cross, and kicked Jesus off, as they are now become the FINISHER of their Salvation.

This is the worst sort-type of Pride. 

Edited by Behold

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Behold said:

Actually the pride of the legalist is worse then all these works of the flesh, that you post in your list.

The reason the pride of the legalist is worse, is because a Legalist is not trusting in CHRIST ALONE< to keep them saved......and this means they are pitting, they are evaluating their own WORKS as their savior, and this insults the Holy Spirit, and denies the Cross its Power, and Jesus His Blood Atonement.

Legalism, is a person who has put themselves on the Cross, and kicked Jesus off, as they are now become the FINISHER of their Salvation.

This is the worst sort-type of Pride. 

You can make legalism and legalist into anything you want, because it's not a Bible word.  It is just rhetoric saying the legalist this and the legalist that, and it is bearing false witness accusing people of being prideful.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, Behold said:

Actually the pride of the legalist is worse then all these works of the flesh, that you post in your list.

The reason the pride of the legalist is worse, is because a Legalist is not trusting in CHRIST ALONE< to keep them saved......and this means they are pitting, they are evaluating their own WORKS as their savior, and this insults the Holy Spirit, and denies the Cross its Power, and Jesus His Blood Atonement.

Legalism, is a person who has put themselves on the Cross, and kicked Jesus off, as they are now become the FINISHER of their Salvation.

This is the worst sort-type of Pride. 

Yes, an obsession to try to make pride worse than unholy and trucebreakers fiercely disobedient to the Lords Holy commandment that they turn away from into only sins..

 

Anyone who trusts in Christ has no boasting, no pride in themselves, no unholy actions, a pure mind and heart and spirit, lowly, not working the hatred sins of the devil to his brother, and to the ones who are not highminded, they will happily and with fear of the Lord await until that righteous judgement of Christ to see if they know the ones who did good believed in the good that Christ accomplished on the cross, and the rest believe He did no good at all, seen through the lack of good they ever do, and this list emphasises all..

 

boasters, prideful, disobedient, unthankful unholy, trucebreakers, fierce, despisers of good, heady, highminded, led away with sins

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/20/2019 at 5:23 AM, Who me said:

So how hard is it to obey someone you love?

It is very difficult, very hard indeed to sustain obeying even someone I love. Without the Holy Spirit indwelling me I would not obey except when it suited my own purposes.

It is not natural to obey. It is  more natural to deceive even one's self, to rationalize evil as being good. The evil nature of one's heart is aware while even in the womb.

Love is also selfish, taking what pleasures it can obtain. That is the love that is natural to mankind in it's fallen state, a husband will lie to God's face and say the woman you gave me she made me do it. Mankind is totally depraved fallen without hope except that God has redeemed many to Himself by His love alone.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/15/2019 at 1:04 PM, Behold said:

So what is that reason?
The reason, is that keeping the law, the 10 commandments, and doing good works, confessing sin, and living as holy as we can, could not make us acceptable to God..

Actually it could and does. Jesus who is God and became fully man did that. He was perfect, the very standard of acceptance by God the Father.

Jesus who is God the son upped the anti so to speak. For He clarified that not only were the physical acts of man sin, but so were the thinking of sinful acts, the nature of the heart as well.

The issue is sin and sin alone, man is depraved not by rules, but by his fallen nature. He is deceitful at best.  He does not seek God, does not seek God's word, does not acknowledge God's sovereignty. He only seeks to deceive until God the Holy Spirit alone calls him to his repentence of his sin against God.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, Neighbor said:

It is very difficult, very hard indeed to sustain obeying even someone I love. Without the Holy Spirit indwelling me I would not obey except when it suited my own purposes.

It is not natural to obey. It is  more natural to deceive even one's self, to rationalize evil as being good. The evil nature of one's heart is aware while even in the womb.

Love is also selfish, taking what pleasures it can obtain. That is the love that is natural to mankind in it's fallen state, a husband will lie to God's face and say the woman you gave me she made me do it. Mankind is totally depraved fallen without hope except that God has redeemed many to Himself by His love alone.

 

You identfy the Christian and the nonchristian in your reply and seem to run them together.

There is a difference between them.

One wants to obey the other does not.

 

But the point of my reply is that legalism tries to frame life so we must obey.

Those who seek to obey out of love know they will fail, but still keep trying.

Picture a toddler, 'helping Daddy!' just how much help is that toddler, yet would the Father have the toddler not helping?

Our Father wants us to, like the toddler, to try.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  

  • Similar Content

    • By GG1010
      Hello all,
      I am here for advice. I have been dating my current boyfriend for about 16 months.  We met a  youth church event that his church was attending and my church was also attending. 
       
      It all started great but then after he visited my church a few times things went a little downhill.  My church is more conservative while his church is more "modern". 
      My family wanted him to do the things and worship the way that is done at my church. He is not used to this and he doesn't necessarily agree. My family then began to disapprove and that's when the  conflict started. 
      I spoke to my family about how important he is to me and my feelings towards him but they have pretty much just shot me down. It makes me feel very sad because his family has been so kind to me and I was so welcomed at his church and they can't be welcoming to him. 
      My boyfriend and I took a break to try and see if this was something that we both truly want. We have decided that we want to continue this relationship and grow but I am worried about my family.  
      I don't want to go against them but I also dont feel like they are taking my feelings and relationships into consideration. They have told me to stop communicating with him because I am not allowed. I should also say that I am in my mid twenties and I don't agree that they should tell me who I am allowed to speak to who I am not. 
       
      I need advice on how handle this situation with my parents and with my boyfriend.  
    • By Behold
      Many believers do not enjoy their Christianity as they should because they have an idea of God, and how to deal with Him, and how He deals with them, that is remarkably wrong.
      There are many born again Saints whose entire idea of fellowship with God is not  friendship, is not a love relationship, is not family..... but its a sort of a "how do i make myself worthy enough for God to be nice to me and accept me".
      Its almost a sort of mild performance anxiety mental issue,  where the believer has not been able to accept or believe that God loves them because God is LOVE and that is what He does, because that is who He is......in reality.
      Instead they are forever straining at the straps, earning, stressing, ever seeking to perform enough, long enough, so that God can accept them.
      And truly, this performance based Christian mentality is a straight jacket of misery, and if you are wearing it, i want to offer you a verse to meditate on so that you get a True Vision of the God who saved you, and not because you earned it, but only because "God so loved YOU", that even if you were the only person in the world, He still would have sent His Blessed Son to the Cross just to bring YOU home to His Kingdom and into His heart.
      Look at this verse... and see the real God, your Father.
      John 16:24
      "and hitherto have you asked nothing in my name :   ASK and you shall receive, that your JOY MAY BE FULL.""
      Now, let me expound this just a little .........
      "what are you waiting for?.....ask me.... im your Father.....I love you......and i want to give to you my blessing so that your joy may be full"
      Now, did you notice what you are to do to earn this fullness of Joy that God wants to give you?
      Answer.) = nothing
      You dont earn it.    And the reason is, .. God's love for you is not a performance based rewards system.    He is not up there taking notes and awarding and subtracting reward points, and if you finally do enough and get enough points, you finally get a blessing.
      That is not God.  That is not how God's love works, or functions.... Yet many believers are working to get God's love., working to get God's acceptance.... working to get God to love them.........and they never feel it, ever..... because God's love is FREELY given.
      You noticed the reward of simply asking God in prayer ?   = "that your JOY might be full"... = Blessing.
      God wants this for you.  This is How He loves you.... He loves by GIVING and GIVING, and never is this based on your performance.  Its always and only based on God's nature.... God is a giver... God is LOVE.  God loves YOU.
       
       
    • By Tzephanyahu
      Shalom All, 
      Here's an article that might help someone. Either athesists wondering why bother to even read the Bible, or believers wanting a handy page to refer when in need! Topics covered include:
      Most controversial book in history Miraclous design Survivability   www.faithandtheword.com/bother/withbible
      May it encourage at least one precious soul decide to pick up a Bible, by His Grace. 
      Love & Shalom 
    • By Tzephanyahu
      Shalom All, 
      Here's an article that's perfect for those of us that who want more from Bible reading time, in need of inspiration to read regularly or interested in how to hear from the Father by reading it. Topics covered include:
      The school of the Holy Spirit Biblical meditation  Safety spiritually and theologically  www.faithandtheword.com/bother/reading
      I hope someone gets a kick out of it. 
      May Yahweh, the Great King, bless your reading time, which is the blessed moment we get to absorb His wonderful words. 
      Love & Shalom 
×
×
  • Create New...