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Cletus

The Purpose of Sacrifice?

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5 hours ago, Firm Foundation said:

It does have to do with salvation.

The gifts are of the Spirit, and that Spirit is given because of Christ giving His spotless blood, every good gift is down from God out of Heaven, for the purpose of honouring the Lord by having lights shining without darkness, in this most darkened of worlds, and prayer too is by the Spirit of the Son in you crying Abba Father

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On 6/3/2019 at 10:21 AM, gordon7777 said:

The gifts are of the Spirit, and that Spirit is given because of Christ giving His spotless blood, every good gift is down from God out of Heaven, for the purpose of honouring the Lord by having lights shining without darkness, in this most darkened of worlds, and prayer too is by the Spirit of the Son in you crying Abba Father

you have touched on what David said in the Psalm... truth in the inward parts.  God wont accept a sacrifice if our heart and mind is wicked... The Book says the sacrifice of the wicked is abomination. 

animal sacrifices never were capable of really purifying us.  David knew this when he called upon God to wash him with hyssop, and to hide His face from his iniquity.  This is why the priests were daily in the temple doing sacrifices... and oftentimes, it says.  They were bringing their sacrifices sure, but in their mind and heart there was still a wickedness present. 

man had to come to the place where he realized, the law isnt justifying me, isnt cleansing me, and my sacrifices do not enable me to live a righteous life.  in other words... I cant do it God.  I am sorry but nothing I do will enable me to live the way you command.  but a broken and contrite heart... He will not despise.  He will then by His Spirit in us and thru us give us the ability to live in His sight, and to do what He commands.  basically to be able to become like Him.  Basically, to no longer live like the old man... but to be able to be HOLY, as He commands us to be Holy, as He Is Holy.  

 

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51 minutes ago, Cletus said:

you have touched on what David said in the Psalm... truth in the inward parts.  God wont accept a sacrifice if our heart and mind is wicked... The Book says the sacrifice of the wicked is abomination. 

animal sacrifices never were capable of really purifying us.  David knew this when he called upon God to wash him with hyssop, and to hide His face from his iniquity.  This is why the priests were daily in the temple doing sacrifices... and oftentimes, it says.  They were bringing their sacrifices sure, but in their mind and heart there was still a wickedness present. 

man had to come to the place where he realized, the law isnt justifying me, isnt cleansing me, and my sacrifices do not enable me to live a righteous life.  in other words... I cant do it God.  I am sorry but nothing I do will enable me to live the way you command.  but a broken and contrite heart... He will not despise.  He will then by His Spirit in us and thru us give us the ability to live in His sight, and to do what He commands.  basically to be able to become like Him.  Basically, to no longer live like the old man... but to be able to be HOLY, as He commands us to be Holy, as He Is Holy.  

 

Hi Cletus, thanks for your description, I hope you will accept mine.

David did call on the Lord in Spirit. Through that Spirit of Christ David made this Psalm of Christ speaking in him, how the Lord will make him to know wisdom, and all of us to know this truth of Christ in our inward parts. Purging us with hyssop and to heal us in our afflictions, and the death we die in, in sin. Blotting out our iniquities nailing them to His cross, and of God creating in us a clean heart, and His renewed right Spirit in us.

Matthew 22:43 He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying,

Psalm 51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
6 Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom.
7 Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.
8 Make me to hear joy and gladness; that the bones which thou hast broken may rejoice.
9 Hide thy face from my sins, and blot out all mine iniquities.
10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.

To the people in the law, with hyssop and sprinkling the book and the people with the blood of the testament of God, and giving remission by the blood, showing the pattern of the heavens to be purified with these same ways, and the Heavenly with better sacrifices than those with Christ's pure blood sacrifice for us...

Hebrews 9:13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

Hebrews 9:19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,
20 Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.
21 Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry.
22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.

Now to the priests making the offerings.  They gave no pleasure or honour to the Lord, they gave impure offerings. Then the Lord receives a pure offering among the Gentiles, but the priests had no conscience to the Lord..

Malachi 1:6 A son honoureth his father, and a servant his master: if then I be a father, where is mine honour? and if I be a master, where is my fear? saith the Lord of hosts unto you, O priests, that despise my name. And ye say, Wherein have we despised thy name?

Malachi 1:10 Who is there even among you that would shut the doors for nought? neither do ye kindle fire on mine altar for nought. I have no pleasure in you, saith the Lord of hosts, neither will I accept an offering at your hand.
11 For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name shall be great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense shall be offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name shall be great among the heathen, saith the Lord of hosts.

Now considering the priests who steered the people were totally corrupted, man could never realize he needed to go to a better place to be justified and cleansed, they did not want to offer righteous sacrifices, as this is only in the new heart, and that heart is Christ who comes to do the will of the Father. As for man, I think you can read and see it all described in all detail..

Romans 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:
16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:
17 And the way of peace have they not known:
18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.

Continuing on the contrite spirit, they needed to be renewed with the right Spirit, and the sacrifice is only by Christ, this is the one with the broken heart, as testified, all scripture and all David spoke of was of Christ, and to the man who trembles at His word..

Psalm 69:20 Reproach hath broken my heart; and I am full of heaviness: and I looked for some to take pity, but there was none; and for comforters, but I found none.

Psalm 51:17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.

Isaiah 66:2 For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the Lord: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word.

Now as for trembling at His word, none were seeking the Lord, not one, but, the question was asked by Gods Spirit, why have you made us to err from thy fear ? Their heart was hardened, they needed that new heart. The people of Israel then said not, let us now fear the Lord, as testified above, there is no fear of God before their eyes. Then the Lord calls us, as it is not us who seek, we never did and never could, His new testament is God giving the new soft heart of flesh, taking the stony heart out, and then they fear Him, then they say let us now seek the Lord and fear Him, and they all have one heart and one way and fear the Lord for ever. The everlasting covenant, to oput HIs fewar into their hearts so we never depart from Him back to idols.

Isaiah 63:17 O Lord, why hast thou made us to err from thy ways, and hardened our heart from thy fear? Return for thy servants' sake, the tribes of thine inheritance.

Jeremiah 5:24 Neither say they in their heart, Let us now fear the Lord our God, that giveth rain, both the former and the latter, in his season: he reserveth unto us the appointed weeks of the harvest.

Jeremiah 32:39 And I will give them one heart, and one way, that they may fear me for ever, for the good of them, and of their children after them:

Jeremiah 32:40 And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me.

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22 hours ago, gordon7777 said:

Hi Cletus, thanks for your description, I hope you will accept mine.

David did call on the Lord in Spirit. Through that Spirit of Christ David made this Psalm of Christ speaking in him, how the Lord will make him to know wisdom, and all of us to know this truth of Christ in our inward parts. Purging us with hyssop and to heal us in our afflictions, and the death we die in, in sin. Blotting out our iniquities nailing them to His cross, and of God creating in us a clean heart, and His renewed right Spirit in us.

Matthew 22:43 He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying,

Psalm 51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
6 Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom.
7 Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.
8 Make me to hear joy and gladness; that the bones which thou hast broken may rejoice.
9 Hide thy face from my sins, and blot out all mine iniquities.
10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.

To the people in the law, with hyssop and sprinkling the book and the people with the blood of the testament of God, and giving remission by the blood, showing the pattern of the heavens to be purified with these same ways, and the Heavenly with better sacrifices than those with Christ's pure blood sacrifice for us...

Hebrews 9:13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

Hebrews 9:19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,
20 Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.
21 Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry.
22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.

Now to the priests making the offerings.  They gave no pleasure or honour to the Lord, they gave impure offerings. Then the Lord receives a pure offering among the Gentiles, but the priests had no conscience to the Lord..

Malachi 1:6 A son honoureth his father, and a servant his master: if then I be a father, where is mine honour? and if I be a master, where is my fear? saith the Lord of hosts unto you, O priests, that despise my name. And ye say, Wherein have we despised thy name?

Malachi 1:10 Who is there even among you that would shut the doors for nought? neither do ye kindle fire on mine altar for nought. I have no pleasure in you, saith the Lord of hosts, neither will I accept an offering at your hand.
11 For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name shall be great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense shall be offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name shall be great among the heathen, saith the Lord of hosts.

Now considering the priests who steered the people were totally corrupted, man could never realize he needed to go to a better place to be justified and cleansed, they did not want to offer righteous sacrifices, as this is only in the new heart, and that heart is Christ who comes to do the will of the Father. As for man, I think you can read and see it all described in all detail..

Romans 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:
16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:
17 And the way of peace have they not known:
18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.

Continuing on the contrite spirit, they needed to be renewed with the right Spirit, and the sacrifice is only by Christ, this is the one with the broken heart, as testified, all scripture and all David spoke of was of Christ, and to the man who trembles at His word..

Psalm 69:20 Reproach hath broken my heart; and I am full of heaviness: and I looked for some to take pity, but there was none; and for comforters, but I found none.

Psalm 51:17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.

Isaiah 66:2 For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the Lord: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word.

Now as for trembling at His word, none were seeking the Lord, not one, but, the question was asked by Gods Spirit, why have you made us to err from thy fear ? Their heart was hardened, they needed that new heart. The people of Israel then said not, let us now fear the Lord, as testified above, there is no fear of God before their eyes. Then the Lord calls us, as it is not us who seek, we never did and never could, His new testament is God giving the new soft heart of flesh, taking the stony heart out, and then they fear Him, then they say let us now seek the Lord and fear Him, and they all have one heart and one way and fear the Lord for ever. The everlasting covenant, to oput HIs fewar into their hearts so we never depart from Him back to idols.

Isaiah 63:17 O Lord, why hast thou made us to err from thy ways, and hardened our heart from thy fear? Return for thy servants' sake, the tribes of thine inheritance.

Jeremiah 5:24 Neither say they in their heart, Let us now fear the Lord our God, that giveth rain, both the former and the latter, in his season: he reserveth unto us the appointed weeks of the harvest.

Jeremiah 32:39 And I will give them one heart, and one way, that they may fear me for ever, for the good of them, and of their children after them:

Jeremiah 32:40 And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me.

I didnt have the intention of delving into covenants when i made this thread.  I am not opposed to the topic coming out though and i kinda do like you brought it up(fyi).  reason being, my point in making this thread and what you have pointed out in covenants is pretty much the same... Gods work of restoring us to Him in righteousness and holiness.  For us to be a holy people.... And that this power is in Him alone. 

If you have anymore to say concerning this please, say on. 

back in the OT days they used to teach to "know The LORD, Know The LORD"  Because of passages such as this, as well as others that do say The Holy Spirit was IN certain individuals, I believe it was possible before the NT to walk in this, and they were not helpless to depravity and being wicked.  God spoke thru His prophets back then to seek Him also. 

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38 minutes ago, Cletus said:

I didnt have the intention of delving into covenants when i made this thread.  I am not opposed to the topic coming out though and i kinda do like you brought it up(fyi).  reason being, my point in making this thread and what you have pointed out in covenants is pretty much the same... Gods work of restoring us to Him in righteousness and holiness.  For us to be a holy people.... And that this power is in Him alone. 

If you have anymore to say concerning this please, say on. 

back in the OT days they used to teach to "know The LORD, Know The LORD"  Because of passages such as this, as well as others that do say The Holy Spirit was IN certain individuals, I believe it was possible before the NT to walk in this, and they were not helpless to depravity and being wicked.  God spoke thru His prophets back then to seek Him also. 

HI again and thanks.

 

Yes I found one other testimony, one that I know of oh how none again had any good intentions towards the Lord, and rest assured, if they have no good intention in Jerusalem, it was nowhere else too, just the same. They sweared of the Lord, but falsely. They were consumed by God, as well known, until there was total exile. A complete work you could say, by God, in Israel, they received no correction, because they made trheir faces garder than a rock, this is the testimony, this is what man does, do. God also testifies, the great men, who knew the way of the Lord, and the judgement of their God, they burst every right way.

Jeremiah 5:1 Run ye to and fro through the streets of Jerusalem, and see now, and know, and seek in the broad places thereof, if ye can find a man, if there be any that executeth judgment, that seeketh the truth; and I will pardon it.
2 And though they say, The Lord liveth; surely they swear falsely.
3 O Lord, are not thine eyes upon the truth? thou hast stricken them, but they have not grieved; thou hast consumed them, but they have refused to receive correction: they have made their faces harder than a rock; they have refused to return.
4 Therefore I said, Surely these are poor; they are foolish: for they know not the way of the Lord, nor the judgment of their God.
5 I will get me unto the great men, and will speak unto them; for they have known the way of the Lord, and the judgment of their God: but these have altogether broken the yoke, and burst the bonds.

 

When the Lord was with anyone, it had to do with His purpose only, because the Lords people had to be made example, for everyone else who does unfaithfully such as all Israel, will also not know the Lord, until His sacrifice was given, as their sacrifices were never acceptable. But any example of any individual, was an example of the Lords grace and how He can have someone faithful, because of the grace that was coming to all many to be faithful in the whole world. Israel was made as a sacrifice, and if we do not sacrifice our life through Christ we will be sacrificed also and cut off too..

 

Romans 9:Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Romans 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.

 

Romans 11:19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

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Just been reading through this thread and see much mention of HOLINESS....which of course is biblical.

What perplexes me is how Christians can claim HOLINESS when they reject God's invitation/requirement to REMEMBER HIS HOLY DAY  and KEEP it HOLY - as given in His Commandments. As far as I know God has never abolished nor transferred HIS HOLY Day....it has always been the SAME since Creation. Is it right for man to  MOVE GOD's FOUNDATION ?

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Sin always costs us our best.  There is always a price to pay.  Usually it is our own joy and peace that we lose.  Often it is a family that we lose in the case of adultery, and at the very least it is trust.  Our lives are shortened when we don't honor our parents.  We may be imprisoned if we steal or kill.  We lose contentment when we covet.  If we don't have a day of rest we become exhausted and lose our health, and our relationship with God suffers when we neglect Him.  If we bow down to idols we certainly backslide.  

The sacrifices given were a reminder of the the cost of sin and the penalty of sin.  They were always the best of livestock or produce.  Our sin cost our Savior His life.

The sacrifice of a broken spirit and contrite heart You will not despise.   A sacrifice of praise is given whether we feel spiritual or not.  

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Clearly stated, the purpose of sacrifice was to cleanse and purify. Thus with the Sacrifice of Yeshua, the veil was torn apart and the Access Way Purified by His Shed Blood so that we could approach the Throne of Grace. We do NOT need to over-complicate this.

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