What are the three major points?

[Marilyn C]

6 hours ago, Tzephanyahu said:

Shalom All,

I am currently working on a project and could really do with some help from you guys on WCF!

What I would like to know is: What are the 3 main points/topics/issues that Christians struggle with today?  This might be a topic of confusion that you have, or that you have witnessed in many others in church or on here.  It might be about baptism, salvation, a book of the Bible etc.  Don't worry if you repeat someone else's point, as it will only highlight the importance with its repetition!

I'm not trying to answer all these points or seeking to start a debate really.  Think of this as more of a survey.

Love & Shalom

Hi Tzephanyahu,

From my listening to people on this forum, I would say that my points are -

1. Listening to the Holy Spirit in our daily lives.

2. Discerning what is of the world, of me and of God.

3. Knowing God`s purposes for the Body of Christ, for Israel and for the nations.

regards, Marilyn.

[jsimms615]

I think three main thoughts that the church today struggles with is:

1. Lukewarmness in love for God- I think the main way that we see this is in the compromises that people make with the world and our interest in both being friends with God and friends with the world.   

2. Lukewarmness in our love for each other- I think this is one of the main ways that the devil divides churches.  He wants us to turn on each other and tear each other apart.  In many cases, that is exactly the way it is in many churches.   Our lack of love for God overflows into our lack of love for each other

3. Biblical ignorance- many people just don't read their Bible much at all and are ignorant about what it says.  If they don't like something the pastor says they want to argue without researching it and seeing if it is true.  People seem to want their ears tickled in this day and time and not told the truth from scripture

[Heybro]

"Dear brother, I think you may have created a mountain of work for yourself, but God bless and sustain you as you "set your hand to the plough."

The three things most of us have seen have already been penned.

1. Maintaining a personal walk.

2.Having the ability to share "The Gospel" in humility, respecting others opinions, without judgement.

3. I think discipleship is mandatory, not just seeing someone saved, and see you in heaven, but mentoring them, or putting them in a positive, bible teaching church environment.

[Tzephanyahu]

Shalom everyone

This is fantastic information which has helped reveal the common problematic themes of today.

Thank you so much @pinacled, @Still Alive, @PromisesPromises!, @Cletus, @thomas t, @GandalfTheWise, @Pekoudah, @AnOrangeCat, @Tigger56, @Jostler, @In Him, @Sonshine☀️, @Marilyn C, @jsimms615, @Heybro. You have all contributed in ways that either confirmed my ideas or schooled me to others.  So, again, thank you all very much for taking the time to reply thoughtfully, honestly and wisely.  I pray that Yahweh blesses you all for your kindness and concern for the Body today.

I will be using this information to help design the "Christian" section of my apologetics website.  I need to focus my time on the most pressing needs of the Christian today, so the advice that all of you have provided so far has helped me massively.  

May Yahweh lead us with wisdom and love to help our brothers and sisters out of these struggles.

Love & Shalom

[JohnD]

WCF??? Sorry, I'm not up on this.

1. Abandoning the traditions of man Church for the Holy Spirit led / Bible authenticated Body of Christ

2. Realizing and taking for action the individual ministry / priesthood ALL believers have.

3. Stop bringing Old Testament legalism into New Testament Grace freeing us up to focus on evangelism

rather than legalism.

[missmuffet]

1. A diluted faith

2. Pride

3. The danger of becoming the Church of Laodicea. 

[turtletwo]

@Tzephanyahu Thanks for addressing this worthy topic. Here are 3 areas I see:

 1)  How to represent Jesus to the unsaved people we come across in our daily lives
 
It is important to not only share the gospel but to LIVE it. There is a delicate balance in "speaking the truth in love." (Ephesians 4:15) It's been said that actions speak louder than words. In evangelism, the two need to go hand in hand. 

2) The problem of pain
 
It's a fact of life that some suffer more intensely than others do. We should look at those who are overwhelmed by their many trials and say, "But for the grace of God, there go I." There should be sensitivity in dealing with those who are at their breaking point. To 'preach at them' when they are so low can amount to 'kicking a man when he is down.'

We are told to do unto others as we would have them do unto us. A harsh word can have a crushing effect while a kind word can extend hope. "So, as those who have been chosen of God, holy and beloved, put on a heart of compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience." (Colossians 3:12)

3) Incorporating ALL of scripture into our understanding of God.

"Every scripture is inspired by God and useful for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness" (2 Timothy 3:16)

EVERY scripture. Sadly, some churches downplay the importance of the OT (thinking it is harder to understand or pertains more to Israel than to the church.) In brushing it aside as 'not being as relevant' (as the epistles, for example) a whole level of richness is being lost. Some are failing to realize how well the Old Testament works together with the New. Jesus is foreshadowed so beautifully in the Old. More appreciation can be brought forth for His atonement when we see how He fulfilled (eliminated the ongoing need for) the sacrificial system, for instance. There is much to be learned...from cover to cover  (Genesis 1-Revelation 22.)
 

[thomas t]

On 5/24/2019 at 12:01 AM, Tigger56 said:

( 1) homosexuality - some churches allow homosexuals to become preachers and leaders within their churches.

 

Hi Tigger,

here we disagree, if you want to exclude right from the start that gays and lesbians (bi and others) can become leaders ... you are discriminating against them as their sexuality is part of their identity.

 

I'm not saying they absolutely should be elected into power. Neither am I saying that you should bless their relationships. Neither am I saying that everything is fine for gay couples to live their feelings because of genuine love they share.

You don't have to adopt a liberal stance on the issue.

 

But in my opinion you should not discriminate against them, either.

Sexuality, including partnership, should not be a factor in determining who becomes a preacher or not. If you ban a lesbian from preaching for a third reason, it's ok of course, (if the third reason is valid).

 

Actually, I'm a happy Christian and I don't preach at church, neither am I a board member there. But if I was told "Thomas, you are a musician meaning you are not allowed to preach or become board member!" ... I would leave that place of course. Even if I am not interested to become a board member in the first place due to lack of time. Just for being discriminated against.

 

Moreover, if God says "a lesbian won't enter a church board of one of my churches!" then he'll certainly find a way to exercise his will anyway.

But a human shouldn't go as far as to set up rules that discriminate against others for identity reasons.

 

I see it that way: Christians being hostile to other minorities is a burden for Christianity - not Christians wanting to keep the peace with the lesbian/gay community. Keeping the peace doesn't mean embracing their relationships. Just peace.

 

If the secular world realizes how we deal with gays... they will ban us from secular working places, too. This time for identity reasons again: they will argue that, since we are Christians, we are not allowed to assume a certain position in work life here or there, either. Honestly: I fear the echo from the world.

 

Homophobic views are held by Christians already, in my view, so discrimination concerning the rules in church would only exacerbate the situation. Sadly.

 

Long story short: I'm not saying they should preach, be blessed from the church for the relationships they have, ..., just saying we should not discriminate against them.

 

Regards, Thomas

Edited May 25, 2019 by thomas t
clarity

[Blood Bought 1953]

 

Not just anybody can be a preacher or even a deacon.....there are certain requirements that must be met, one of which is their reputation in the area must be stellar, nothing in their background should be able to come back to disgrace them- it could give Satan a foothold to sew doubt in the Message....Read Timothy....guidelines can be found in both books ....  

[Tigger56]

4 hours ago, thomas t said:

 

Hi Tigger,

here we disagree, if you want to exclude right from the start that gays and lesbians (bi and others) can become leaders ... you are discriminating against them as their sexuality is part of their identity.

 

I'm not saying they absolutely should be elected into power. Neither am I saying that you should bless their relationships. Neither am I saying that everything is fine for gay couples to live their feelings because of genuine love they share.

You don't have to adopt a liberal stance on the issue.

 

But in my opinion you should not discriminate against them, either.

Sexuality, including partnership, should not be a factor in determining who becomes a preacher or not. If you ban a lesbian from preaching for a third reason, it's ok of course, (if the third reason is valid).

 

Actually, I'm a happy Christian and I don't preach at church, neither am I a board member there. But if I was told "Thomas, you are a musician meaning you are not allowed to preach or become board member!" ... I would leave that place of course. Even if I am not interested to become a board member in the first place due to lack of time. Just for being discriminated against.

 

Moreover, if God says "a lesbian won't enter a church board of one of my churches!" then he'll certainly find a way to exercise his will anyway.

But a human shouldn't go as far as to set up rules that discriminate against others for identity reasons.

 

I see it that way: Christians being hostile to other minorities is a burden for Christianity - not Christians wanting to keep the peace with the lesbian/gay community. Keeping the peace doesn't mean embracing their relationships. Just peace.

 

If the secular world realizes how we deal with gays... they will ban us from secular working places, too. This time for identity reasons again: they will argue that, since we are Christians, we are not allowed to assume a certain position in work life here or there, either. Honestly: I fear the echo from the world.

 

Homophobic views are held by Christians already, in my view, so discrimination concerning the rules in church would only exacerbate the situation. Sadly.

 

Long story short: I'm not saying they should preach, be blessed from the church for the relationships they have, ..., just saying we should not discriminate against them.

 

Regards, Thomas

I understand what you are saying Thomas and it kind of proves my point. Christians struggle with this as well as with how to love and this is why I posted as these as two of my points.

What many Christians need to realize I feel is that love should never mean permission and allowance to sin. I do not look at homosexuality as being born that way, nor has that ever been proven. I look at it as a sexual choice and one that the Lord does condemn as sin. The Lord is not an unjust God and he would not determine something as a sin if there were no choice involved. Homosexuality goes against the pattern of love as established by the Lord. So yes, I would discriminate against them in allowing them in a position of leadership due to their sin not due to their "sexuality". A pediophile can claim their desire for little children is based on their sexuality, but it, once again, is a sin. 

In your example, being a musician, being told you cannot be a leader would be a totally different matter, as you are not sinning by playing music whereas a man with a man or woman with a woman is in fact a sin. Should we love them?  Yes! But not condone their actions. If a man were an alcoholic, I would love them as a child of God but not condone their action not place them in a position of leadership. Should they be allowed in church?  Yes! Where they can learn the word of God and make the changes they need, not to accept their behavior and choice.

Thank you for your Post, Thomas. You always know how to post in a manner of discussion and not flammable debate.