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a multitude from the Tribulation


jsimms615

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1 minute ago, missmuffet said:

That is your choice. Life if full of them..

Praise God for that!

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7 hours ago, jsimms615 said:

That really doesn't answer my question at all.  I was asking for a specific or specific verses that show that people on earth become sensitive to God's word and repent in numbers too great to count during the tribulation period and the reality is that there isn't any.  Peoples hearts are already so hard that they don't repent.  When the two witnesses die they rejoice over it and don't let anyone bury them.

During the end of the sixth trumpet for example it says

"And the rest of mankind, who were not killed by these plagues, did not repent of the works of their hands, so as not to worship demons, and the idols of gold and of silver and of brass and of stone and of wood, which can neither see nor hear nor walk; and they did not repent of their murders nor of their sorceries nor of their immorality nor of their thefts." Revelations 9:20-21, NASB

When the sixth seal was broke the world's response is recorded in Revelations 6:15-17

"And the kings of the earth and the great men and the commanders and the rich and the strong and every slave and free man, hid themselves in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains; and they said to the mountains and to the rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the presence of HIm who sits on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb; for the great day of their wrath has come; and who is able to stand?"  

So, they clearly understand their experience to be wrath from God, but their response is not to repent, but to hide in the caves from God's presence.  Clearly these judgments didn't lead to repentance.

Hi jsimms,

Not everyone becomes sensitive to God`s word, & as I said before, many who are facing death cry out to God for help, and He graciously hears them. That is what the great multitude did, for they were dying of hunger, thirst and heat. Horrible deaths and thus through their pain they cried out to God. Many would have thought that God would take them through the tribulation, but they didn`t believe He was coming for them prior, thus they weren`t looking for Him. A lot of that Great multitude would have had believers reach out to them before the tribulation, and they turned away, but then in their hour of great need they remembered and call out to God.

Now the 6th trumpet is near the end of the tribulation and many people died of the plagues etc. Many of those people are some of the Great multitude who did repent. And those in the 6th seal although hiding, will find that because they looked after the Jews, that they will be able to go into the millennium. They will be of the `sheep` group.

Marilyn.

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Interesting, but I see people suffering from fire, heat, plagues, pains, sores, no water because it turned to blood...

What I DO NOT SEE, those who are suffering, NONE OF THEM are repenting!!

So much for these people suffering being a part of the GREAT MULTITUDE of the Tribulation Saints!!

8 And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire.

9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.

10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,

11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.

 

 

 

Revelation 9:20 
And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:
Revelation 9:21 
Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
In fact, NOWHERE IN REVELATION does it claim anyone REPENTED, it claims in every situation, they REPENTED NOT!!
 
Kind of difficult to get Tribulation Saints from NO ONE REPENTING!!

 

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14 hours ago, missmuffet said:

Question: "What are tribulation saints?"

Answer: 
The tribulation saints are, quite simply, saints living during the tribulation. We believe that the church will be raptured before the tribulation, but the Bible indicates that a great number of people during the tribulation will place their faith in Jesus Christ. In his vision of heaven, John sees a vast number of these tribulation saints who have been martyred by the Antichrist: “There before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and in front of the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands” (Revelation 7:9). When John asks who they are, he is told, “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb” (verse 14).

The tribulation will be a time of great trouble for the wicked, because of God’s judgments. It will also be a time of great persecution for the believers—or saints—because of the Antichrist’s persecution (Revelation 13:7). Daniel saw the Antichrist “waging war against the saints and defeating them” (Daniel 7:21). Of course, the saints’ eternal salvation is secure: Daniel also saw that “the Ancient of Days came and pronounced judgment in favor of the saints of the Most High, and the time came when they possessed the kingdom” (Daniel 7:22; cf. Revelation 14:12–13). 

The tribulation saints will hear the gospel from several possible sources. The first is the Bible; there will be many copies of the Bible left in the world, and when God’s judgments begin to fall, many people will likely react by finding a Bible to see if prophecies are being fulfilled. Many of the tribulation saints will also have heard the gospel from the two witnesses (Revelation 11:1–13). The Bible says these two individuals “will prophesy for 1,260 days [three and a half years]” (verse 3) and perform great miracles (verse 6). And then there are the 144,000 Jewish missionaries who are redeemed and sealed by God during the tribulation (Revelation 7:1–8). Immediately following the description of their sealing in Revelation 7, we read of the multitudes of tribulation saints who are saved from every corner of the world (verses 9–17).

The tribulation saints will serve their Lord Jesus Christ in the midst of desperate surroundings. Faithful to the end, many of these believers will die for their faith. But in their death, they overcome; “They overcame [Satan] by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony; they did not love their lives so much as to shrink from death” (Revelation 12:11). And God will reward them: “He who sits on the throne will spread his tent over them. Never again will they hunger; never again will they thirst. The sun will not beat upon them, nor any scorching heat. For the Lamb at the center of the throne will be their shepherd; he will lead them to springs of living water. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes” (Revelation 7:15–17). 

We praise the Lord that the great day of trouble will also be a great day of grace. Even as God is meting out His just punishment on an unbelieving world, He will be restoring Israel to faith and extending grace to all who believe, both Jew and Gentile. God has always been in the business of saving people, and that salvation will still be available during the tribulation. Don’t wait until then, however; receive Jesus now (John 1:12).

https://www.gotquestions.org/tribulation-saints.html

I do understand the concept of the pre tribulation rapture and I hope your right for a sure wouldn't want to live through the Tribulation.  I was taught Pre tribulation rapture beliefs when I was a teenager over 35 years ago.  However, as I said in an earlier post, there are numerous passages that don't support a revival of a great many believers in the Tribulation period mainly Rev 9:20-21 and Rev 6:15-17.  Jesus also said in the last days that most people's love will grow cold.   It makes more sense to me that the believers who were pictures martyred in the Tribulation are the church and that the church still remains during the Tribulation period. 

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5 hours ago, jsimms615 said:

I do understand the concept of the pre tribulation rapture and I hope your right for a sure wouldn't want to live through the Tribulation.  I was taught Pre tribulation rapture beliefs when I was a teenager over 35 years ago.  However, as I said in an earlier post, there are numerous passages that don't support a revival of a great many believers in the Tribulation period mainly Rev 9:20-21 and Rev 6:15-17.  Jesus also said in the last days that most people's love will grow cold.   It makes more sense to me that the believers who were pictures martyred in the Tribulation are the church and that the church still remains during the Tribulation period. 

Hi jsimms,

So why are the believers hiding in the rocks etc? (Rev. 6: 15)

Marilyn.

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39 minutes ago, Cletus said:

Mat 24:29  Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30  And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31  And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet(1Co 15:52), and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

can anyone reconcile this passage with pre-trib for me? 

Nope they just say that is somebody else :whistling:

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1 hour ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi jsimms,

So why are the believers hiding in the rocks etc? (Rev. 6: 15)

Marilyn.

Ummm, THOSE ARE NOT BELIEVERS!!

Look at verse 15 and 16 specifically:

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

 

Why would BELIEVERS tell the MOUNTAINS and ROCKS to FALL ON THEM and HIDE THEM from the WRATH of GOD?

 

***Someone obviously is CHERRY PICKING SCRIPTURE, and doing a horrible job at it!!***

 

 

Revelation 6:

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

 

 

 

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34 minutes ago, childoftheking said:

 

 

Hi childoftheking,

I agree that those there hiding are NOT believers. I was following up on what jsimms was saying.  He said -

  `It makes more sense to me that the believers who were pictures martyred in the Tribulation are the church and that the church still remains during the Tribulation period.` 

Thus I was interested to know why he thought the church would be hiding.

Marilyn.

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2 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi childoftheking,

I agree that those there hiding are NOT believers. I was following up on what jsimms was saying.  He said -

  `It makes more sense to me that the believers who were pictures martyred in the Tribulation are the church and that the church still remains during the Tribulation period.` 

Thus I was interested to know why he thought the church would be hiding.

Marilyn.

That is a very good question.

 

 

I believe outside of the Two Witnesses, the ones actually martyred would be the Beheaded.   But they are mentioned in Revelation 20, not Revelation 7 speaking about the great multitude.   And Revelation 7 does not claim these Tribulations Saints were even killed, let alone martyred...

 

Revelation 7:

9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

 

^ These Saints survived the Tribulation...according to verse 9, it's a great multitude that cannot even be numbered.

 

 

The Beheaded:

Revelation 20:

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received hismark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

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31 minutes ago, childoftheking said:

 

Hi childoftheking,

It would be good if you addressed your rather rude remark - *`**Someone obviously is CHERRY PICKING SCRIPTURE, and doing a horrible job at it!!*** `

Marilyn.

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