Jump to content
IGNORED

Is this a logical statement?


Recommended Posts


  • Group:  Nonbeliever
  • Followers:  1
  • Topic Count:  12
  • Topics Per Day:  0.02
  • Content Count:  115
  • Content Per Day:  0.21
  • Reputation:   37
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  10/03/2022
  • Status:  Offline

"I'm saved because Jesus paid my sin-debt with His death on the cross."

Edited by LeeGreenForest
Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Royal Member
  • Followers:  34
  • Topic Count:  1,989
  • Topics Per Day:  0.49
  • Content Count:  48,687
  • Content Per Day:  11.89
  • Reputation:   30,342
  • Days Won:  226
  • Joined:  01/11/2013
  • Status:  Offline

14 minutes ago, LeeGreenForest said:

"I'm saved because Jesus paid my sin-debt with His death on the cross."

Partly. You are saved because you believe Jesus Christ is the risen Son of God and has died on the cross for your sins. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Worthy Ministers
  • Followers:  0
  • Topic Count:  897
  • Topics Per Day:  0.19
  • Content Count:  9,621
  • Content Per Day:  2.03
  • Reputation:   5,821
  • Days Won:  9
  • Joined:  04/07/2011
  • Status:  Offline

Logical, yes, if you include the fact that you believe in Jesus Christ who died for your sins on the cross.

Many attempt to skirt the issue of believing in Jesus (for whatever reason).

Jesus died so that any human being could be saved...

But clearly this prepaid salvation in everyone's individual account must be

activated by faith in Jesus Christ. Unbelief = condemnation as humanity stands condemned already.

John 3:16–18 (AV)
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

 

 

Edited by JohnD
Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Nonbeliever
  • Followers:  1
  • Topic Count:  12
  • Topics Per Day:  0.02
  • Content Count:  115
  • Content Per Day:  0.21
  • Reputation:   37
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  10/03/2022
  • Status:  Offline

10 minutes ago, missmuffet said:

Partly. You are saved because you believe Jesus Christ is the risen Son of God and has died on the cross for your sins. 

When you write Son of God do you mean Son of God the Father? If so, was Jesus always the Son of God the Father?

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Worthy Ministers
  • Followers:  0
  • Topic Count:  897
  • Topics Per Day:  0.19
  • Content Count:  9,621
  • Content Per Day:  2.03
  • Reputation:   5,821
  • Days Won:  9
  • Joined:  04/07/2011
  • Status:  Offline

4 minutes ago, LeeGreenForest said:

When you write Son of God do you mean Son of God the Father? If so, was Jesus always the Son of God the Father?

John 1:1–3 (AV)
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

John 1:14 (AV)
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Before this point in time, God the Word was not a Son nor was God the Father a Father...

Hebrews 1:5 (AV)
5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

 

 

Edited by JohnD
Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Worthy Ministers
  • Followers:  9
  • Topic Count:  3
  • Topics Per Day:  0.00
  • Content Count:  2,326
  • Content Per Day:  0.63
  • Reputation:   1,303
  • Days Won:  1
  • Joined:  01/26/2014
  • Status:  Offline

1 hour ago, LeeGreenForest said:

"I'm saved because Jesus paid my sin-debt with His death on the cross."

Hi Lee,

I don't see any logical inconsistency in the provided statement. I think if the statement was made to a non-Christian, a more thorough explanation might be required - as the non-Christian probably doesn't have the requisite depth of doctrinal understanding from which to interpret the statement. But to me, as a Christian, it makes perfect sense.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Royal Member
  • Followers:  44
  • Topic Count:  229
  • Topics Per Day:  0.06
  • Content Count:  10,900
  • Content Per Day:  2.95
  • Reputation:   12,145
  • Days Won:  68
  • Joined:  02/13/2014
  • Status:  Offline
  • Birthday:  08/14/1954

Thanks to all for making the necessary clarifications on salvation. And Lee, I hope your understanding has been helped to give you more assurance. God bless.  

Shalom, 

David/BeauJangles

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Nonbeliever
  • Followers:  1
  • Topic Count:  12
  • Topics Per Day:  0.02
  • Content Count:  115
  • Content Per Day:  0.21
  • Reputation:   37
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  10/03/2022
  • Status:  Offline

Would it be accurate for me to say that Jesus took the punishment for my sins with His death on the cross? Would believing He did that, and that He was buried, and that He rose again on the third day, and that He was the Son of God be enough to be saved? Is there anything else I should be bearing in mind?

Edited by LeeGreenForest
  • Loved it! 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Worthy Ministers
  • Followers:  26
  • Topic Count:  61
  • Topics Per Day:  0.03
  • Content Count:  9,602
  • Content Per Day:  4.02
  • Reputation:   7,795
  • Days Won:  21
  • Joined:  09/11/2017
  • Status:  Offline

Read in the Tanach about the 'gospel in a tent'.

The blood of Yeshua sprinkled on the Mercy Seat satisfied the Father once and for all and no further sacrifices are necessary for our Salvation.

Edited by Justin Adams
  • Praise God! 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Royal Member
  • Followers:  24
  • Topic Count:  40
  • Topics Per Day:  0.02
  • Content Count:  1,459
  • Content Per Day:  0.61
  • Reputation:   2,377
  • Days Won:  2
  • Joined:  08/23/2017
  • Status:  Offline

1 hour ago, LeeGreenForest said:

Would it be accurate for me to say that Jesus took the punishment for my sins with His death on the cross? Would believing He did that, and that He was buried, and that He rose again on the third day, and that He was the Son of God be enough to be saved? Is there anything else I should be bearing in mind?

 

9 hours ago, LeeGreenForest said:

"I'm saved because Jesus paid my sin-debt with His death on the cross."

The mark of a true conversion is that the Holy Spirit is involved.  One could have a completely accurate theological and intellectual view of Christian theology but without the actual work of the Holy Spirit, there is no salvation involved.  It's not the accuracy and breadth of our intellectual views of Christian theology and a lack of doubt about those views that starts a spiritual work in our lives.  It is that the Holy Spirit draws us in, sheds enough light in our hearts for us to realize that we cannot be right with God through our own efforts, and that Jesus Christ's death and resurrection has made Him the Way to God and eternal life.  What constitutes faith on our part is responding to this, agreeing that we need God's help, and inviting Him to come into our lives and change us.  Faith in God is not a complete lack of doubts about particular facts, it is a response to God's Holy Spirit drawing us.  It is having adequate trust and confidence to respond when we feel God drawing us toward Him.

My own view is that saying we are "saved" at conversion is imprecise which is why I personally prefer something like "born again" or "born anew" which describes conversion as being born into a new life and start of our life in Christ.  Strictly speaking, there is an entire salvation process involved where the Holy Spirit draws us, our response in faith to this drawing, there is a point of conversion where we are forgiven and the Holy Spirit comes inside of us and we become a new creation in Christ, and then start moving forward in that new life (where the new spiritual nature increasingly crowds out our old nature) and spiritual fruit and good works start to grow and become apparent and then eventually after death and resurrection we'll be in eternity with Christ and His followers.  Two significant things happen as we spiritually grow.  The first is that our trust, confidence, faith, and assurance in God Himself grows.  Doubts start to disappear as we simply get to know God more and more as we walk with Him over weeks, months, years, and decades of our life.  The second is that fruit (e.g. love, joy, peace, patience, self-control) and good works and deeds become more and more a part of us.  Our very feelings and attitudes and thoughts become characterized by those things.

My observation is that two of the things most Christians struggle with and worry about at times are assurance and holiness.   If you read I John, you'll find a description of the Christian life as it should be, having complete holiness and having complete boldness and assurance of our relationship with God.  However, in practice, most Christians (especially as younger Christians) struggle in both these areas.   Books like I John can seem more like condemnation at times than encouragement.   Christians will have doubts in their mind and heart, see sins in their life (including some things like addictions that they cannot break through their own willpower), and start to worry if they are falling short or worry if they were even actually saved to begin with or that their conversion was just some warm emotions that fooled them into thinking they were saved.  Then, when their own efforts to eliminate doubts and sin don't work, they start to worry even more.  I've been there and done that and my guess is that pretty much every Christian has gone through that at times.   The key is that assurance and holiness are things that grow and mature in our lives.  They do not arrive fully formed at conversion, they grow.  At conversion, many testimonies I've heard (including my own) is that Christians suddenly feel a sense of God's presence which brings a new sense of faith and assurance that God is indeed there and loves us but that does not mean we have no doubts remaining.  That faith and assurance is just the first sprouts of a tree of trust, confidence, faith and assurance that will grow much larger and stronger throughout our lives and slowly and surely push out doubts over time.  Some testimonies have been that some sins just immediately disappear at conversion, but many do not.   Doubts and sins slowly drop out of our lives as fruit and good works and trust and confidence in God grow.  We'll have sudden victories where God does something and some amount of doubt and sin will vanish.  We'll have times of slow gradual growth where doubt and sin slowly decrease.  As we move forward and grow, all the promises in I John about holiness and assurance start to become more and more real and apparent in our lives.  Over time, our very thoughts, attitudes, and feelings will start to reflect this type of assurance and holiness.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...