JohnD Posted May 27, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 0 Topic Count: 905 Topics Per Day: 0.19 Content Count: 9,644 Content Per Day: 2.03 Reputation: 5,830 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/07/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted May 27, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted May 27, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,990 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,688 Content Per Day: 11.83 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted May 27, 2019 I don't know I haven't been there yet 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnthebaptist Posted May 27, 2019 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 6 Topic Count: 118 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 4,361 Content Per Day: 2.32 Reputation: 2,109 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/25/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/03/1953 Share Posted May 27, 2019 I think you will find the remarkable thing about heaven is the peace of mind we will have there, and the reason we will have peace of mind there is that we will have repented of our sin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jostler Posted May 28, 2019 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 25 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,679 Content Per Day: 1.40 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 16 Joined: 01/19/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted May 28, 2019 Which heaven? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted May 28, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,990 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,688 Content Per Day: 11.83 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted May 28, 2019 20 minutes ago, Jostler said: Which heaven? How many heavens do we have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jostler Posted May 28, 2019 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 25 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,679 Content Per Day: 1.40 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 16 Joined: 01/19/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted May 28, 2019 Just now, missmuffet said: How many heavens do we have? at least three 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted May 28, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,990 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,688 Content Per Day: 11.83 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted May 28, 2019 59 minutes ago, Jostler said: at least three Please explain. What are those heavens and what is their purpose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jostler Posted May 28, 2019 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 25 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,679 Content Per Day: 1.40 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 16 Joined: 01/19/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted May 28, 2019 (edited) 39 minutes ago, missmuffet said: Please explain. What are those heavens and what is their purpose? Quote 2Co 12:2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago—whether in the body I do not know, or whether out of the body I do not know, God knows—such a one was caught up to the third heaven. We can discern (prove) from Scripture there are at least three "heavens". The third heaven appears to be the realm where Father's Throne and His manifest presence are, and it's the "highest" heaven we're told of that is populated by beings having consciousness and understanding. It is a realm of spirit (disembodied) beings but we have to assume at least one exception. Since this is the heaven Jesus ascended to there is at least one man, with a physical body who is now present there. It also seems safe to assume this is the heaven satan was kicked out of when he rebelled. By comparsion of Scripture with Scripture where a "heaven" is mentioned, we can discern the second heaven is the spirit realm. The dimension where heavenly beings, both fallen and faithful reside as their appointed abode. Current primary "residence" of satan and his fallen hosts, and realm of battle between the two classes of heavenly beings...fallen and faithful. The first heaven is "where birds fly" and apparently refers to at least the atmosphere around the earth itself, but likely includes this whole realm or "kosmos" as the Greek seems to indicate. Including the planets, stars and myriad galaxies. There is some legitimate debate as to where the first heaven ends and the second begins....some passages seem imply a significant relationship between stars and heavenly beings ....which implies stars might be included in the second heaven instead of the first. With the lack of certainty of exactly what the relationship between stars and the heavenly host is....it's hard to be dogmatic either way IMO. I tend to believe the relationship is such that some kind of cross-dimensional relationship does exist, but the physical stars are part of this "heaven". I wouldn't try to argue the point. I don't think the Bible is clear enough to be dogmatic either way. There appears to be at least one more "dimension" that is not described as a "heaven" but is accessible to disembodied spirits...and that is "under the earth" usually associated with Hades. Edited May 28, 2019 by Jostler 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neighbor Posted May 28, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 950 Topics Per Day: 0.35 Content Count: 13,537 Content Per Day: 5.03 Reputation: 9,033 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/04/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/03/1885 Share Posted May 28, 2019 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. “You shall have no other gods before me. “You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted May 28, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,990 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,688 Content Per Day: 11.83 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted May 28, 2019 49 minutes ago, Jostler said: We can discern (prove) from Scripture there are at least three "heavens". The third heaven appears to be the realm where Father's Throne and His manifest presence are, and it's the "highest" heaven we're told of that is populated by beings having consciousness and understanding. It is a realm of spirit (disembodied) beings but we have to assume at least one exception. Since this is the heaven Jesus ascended to there is at least one man, with a physical body who is now present there. It also seems safe to assume this is the heaven satan was kicked out of when he rebelled. By comparsion of Scripture with Scripture where a "heaven" is mentioned, we can discern the second heaven is the spirit realm. The dimension where heavenly beings, both fallen and faithful reside as their appointed abode. Current primary "residence" of satan and his fallen hosts, and realm of battle between the two classes of heavenly beings...fallen and faithful. The first heaven is "where birds fly" and apparently refers to at least the atmosphere around the earth itself, but likely includes this whole realm or "kosmos" as the Greek seems to indicate. Including the planets, stars and myriad galaxies. There is some legitimate debate as to where the first heaven ends and the second begins....some passages seem imply a significant relationship between stars and heavenly beings ....which implies stars might be included in the second heaven instead of the first. With the lack of certainty of exactly what the relationship between stars and the heavenly host is....it's hard to be dogmatic either way IMO. I tend to believe the relationship is such that some kind of cross-dimensional relationship does exist, but the physical stars are part of this "heaven". I wouldn't try to argue the point. I don't think the Bible is clear enough to be dogmatic either way. There appears to be at least one more "dimension" that is not described as a "heaven" but is accessible to disembodied spirits...and that is "under the earth" usually associated with Hades. Are you Hindu? Are you Mormon? Hinduism believes that there is 7 levels of heaven. The Mormons believe that there are three different levels of heaven. That is not biblical. There is only one heaven that believers dwell. There are different levels of reward in heaven but only one heaven. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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