who is he

[luigi]

All who overcome this world shall become one with the Lord, and shall rule with a rod of iron.

Revelation 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

27And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

[tatwo]

On 7/15/2023 at 8:52 AM, Markie51 said:

Understanding who the “woman” refers to is helpful in identifying the “child.”

Markie51, I thoroughly enjoyed your subsequent post. I was strengthened and edified by it to the point that I decided to add what I believe has been revealed to me. I am doing this because you present a picture that is completely uncommon to the status quo here at "Worthy Christian Forum."

That is why the only responses you have seen up to this point are uninspired men posting their domestic beliefs which only serves to reassure them that what they believe is right...in their own eyes...and that they agree with themselves...Truth is optional. They have not honestly tackled what you posted...nor can they...you are speaking in a heavenly language. 

I have worked for years with what you brought forth, there was an eloquence about some of what you wrote almost presenting your revelation in terms of art...painting a picture, please allow me to address this fascinating spiritual reality you have shared here.

There are things that you posted that need no commentary really, however you have inspired me...so in some instances I added some "color" of my own, this in hopes that "we" may continue to bring the bread of life to to each other and to the sons of God in the same Holy Spirit.

I have to post in separate parts, it took more time and energy than I thought. I have worked in this area extensively and as a result have written a multitude of studies over the last 30+ years about these things, I will share with you Markie51 in an attempt to affirm, support you, and whosoever will.

I am thinking that you have done the same, so please do not think of any of my understandings as candid correction...no...I am merely adding what I believe I have been given to what you have shared here...and that can be difficult in this setting.

Markie51, in my attempt to spiritually discern where you are coming from and what you are presenting I poured through your posts with an open desire to find first family member, and of course revelation and understanding...a more clear picture of our Lord Yahshua Christ and His Father...the result as I see it...was success.

If I may suggest a similar process to you in understanding what I have posted? Move through the entirety of what I have taken the time to put together for a more clear picture of who I am and how I believe for a more clear picture of the King of kings and His kingdom. I say this in light of the common practice of the local Tartuffes who are simply perusing the forum looking for something they can disagree with so they can proudly put on display their magnificent wisdom. John 5:38-40.

I will begin my posting here. 

Thank you Markie51

Tatwo...:)

[tatwo]

On 7/15/2023 at 8:52 AM, Markie51 said:

Understanding who the “woman” refers to is helpful in identifying the “child.”

The woman and male child that John sees in heaven are not a literal.  They are signs, or symbols.-Revelation 1:1.

I agree, and it seems that many are unwilling to receive this and as a result they can only offer a domesticated perspective…the Holy Spirits revelation is withheld from that “mindset.”

However I might suggest that identifying the “Man Child” will then reveal the identity of the woman. I say this because this is “Christ” the “son of God” we are talking about here. However, clearly there is more to it than meets the eye…people have guessed about “who” this “Male or Man Child” is for centuries.

We do not need to guess any longer, the “Word” has revealed His identity…understand this…whoever this “son” is…He garners the full attention of God while the woman is sent to the wilderness.

Shall we attempt to deconstruct this here? Why not…rejection of truth has become the norm. The harlot will not allow her constituency to receive the revelation of the Lord here…she never has or will. Yet…there is bread and water from heaven upon the table in the temple of God today…and as promised His son will eat in abundance.

Tatwo...:)

[tatwo]

On 7/15/2023 at 8:52 AM, Markie51 said:

In some scriptures, women are represented as organizations “married” to inanimate things/beings.  In the Old Testament, Israel was spoken of as a wife of God. (Isaiah 54:5; Jeremiah 3:14, 20) 

Absolutely…and this acknowledgement of “types and shadows” is what can show a consistency of God’s communication throughout the scriptures. Absent this reality…man is guessing at the divine.

There is an important understanding here and provides a very nice “type or shadow” of the real thing. You see a “type or shadow” is not the thing perfected…it is a representation of the final realization of the thing.

A simple example of this can be seen in Abel’s offering of a lamb. It can be said that it was a “type or shadow” of both the Lamb slain from before the foundations of the earth, and the Lamb of God that was sacrificed upon the cross of shame. As proof of concept…God accepted the worshipful offering of a lamb from Abel.

Thus Israel was a “type” of the wife of God as you stated Markie51…Israel was not a faithful wife however this is painfully obvious as seen by the fact that she did not repent of her idolatries and harlotries…which she chose to continue in…called rebellion and disobedience…she did this verses following the Son of God…the promise child she bore prophetically and symbolically. The two were ultimately separated by God.

Hence, and this is important…the Lord Yahshua told her, Israel…"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones God's messengers! How often I have wanted to gather your children together as a hen protects her chicks beneath her wings, but you wouldn't let Me. And now, look, your house is abandoned and desolate.”

Yahshua told them…that because you have rejected my attempt to “gather you under my wings”…”God is abandoning your house to you, leaving it desolate.” He is finalizing a separation of her…Israel…from Himself…she has departed from the ways of God in spiritual idolatry and harlotry.

Interestingly…the word for “desolate” there in Matthew 23 is the word “érēmos” G2048 the same word for wilderness…the place the “woman” from Rev. 12:5 & 6 goes…we will come back to this.

Tatwo...:)

[tatwo]

On 7/15/2023 at 8:52 AM, Markie51 said:

In the New Testament, the congregation of anointed Christians is spoken of as Christ’s bride. (Revelation 21:9-14)

Yes, and those who constitute the “bride of Christ” are also the “Body of Christ” who are known as the “sons of God.” Christ in His “fullness or perfection” is “Head and Body” as one new man who has grown into a “Mature Man” Ephesians 2 & 4.

On 7/15/2023 at 8:52 AM, Markie51 said:

The symbolic woman John sees is also symbolically married to someone, and she is about to give birth.

Interesting, while I agree in part, I also see a more detailed revelation Markie51, about her and her son.

Perhaps I might suggest that she “was” up to some point symbolically married to someone? She is carrying a “son of God” so…at one point she was symbolically married to God…she was set aside by God for Himself.

That is why we see that she was once clothed in the radiance of God, “sun, moon 12 stars as a crown”…however the “Man Child” is “separated” from her unto God as His own “son.”

The term “Man Child” denotes Him as the “mature or perfect man”…He is a “spiritual adult.”

The designation “Child” appended to the term “Man” denotes that He is not so much a child but rather the “offspring”…and He is “new” in His appearance as the “son of God” and it must be noted that this takes place on the earth.

The word for “son” there in Revelation 12:5 is the same word “son” from Mark 1:11 which is where God called Yahshua…His “Son” after His baptism. It is the word  huiós; G5207…Yahshua who was clearly a “mature Son.”

Tatwo...:)

[tatwo]

On 7/15/2023 at 8:52 AM, Markie51 said:

Later her child is “caught away to God and to his throne.” (Revelation 12:5)  God claims the child as his own.  Therefore, the woman that John sees is God’s symbolic wife.  Compare Galatians 4:19.

Ok it may take me a minute to move through this part...have mercy.

It is inarguable that God claims this “son” as His own, to be sure Markie51…thereby identifying Him as the “Son of God.”

You wrote…”Therefore, the woman that John sees is God’s symbolic wife.” Let’s add some additional insight to this woman. First I agree with you…however there is more here for us, think back to earlier where I laid out that there was a separation between Israel and Yahshua. He sends them, Israel into desolation…the wilderness after centuries of her harlotry? I also explained “wilderness.”

That was all a “type and shadow” reference of what is occurring here in Revelation 12…what is spoken of to occur in Revelation 12…is the “final iteration” of this “woman” and this “son.” There must be no mistake here, the “Word” is wrapping up the entirety of creation…the book of Revelation is a book of “culminations”…all of scripture culminates according to the Revelation of Yahshua Christ. 

So once again in “this” woman…we have seen and will see her continued deviation from Truth to lies…just as Israel did. She will do exactly what Israel did…idolatry and harlotry. In like manner we again see the separation from that which is the standard of God…as seen in ”Christ the Son of God”…which is why she was sent into the wilderness bringing about the separation.

Her “wilderness” excursion, which was prepared for her by God…was designed to force her to decide whether or not she will repent and serve Him and stop her harlotries…that is what is meant by “wilderness.” When one is in the “wilderness” all you have is God or self…it is this “wilderness” experience that forces one to choose.

Consider “Israel as a type of the woman”…in Israel’s beginning she was adorned in the favor of God, however over time she digressed to the place ultimately…where she was left to her idolatrous and treacherous harlotry, thereby becoming separated from God, and finally set against God.

This was completed over a period of time after the birth of the Lord, time enough to convincingly reject Him as their Messiah…Israel in her rejection of Him as God eternal, robed in flesh…was separated by God into desolation.

This woman of Rev. 12 will be the final iteration of this woman because it comes forth at the end of the age. Her name is “BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.”

Her wilderness experience was one of treachery…she heads into the wilderness having brought forth the “son of God” known as “Christ, Head and Body”…and in her harlotries…she makes a deal with the beast right there in Revelation 12…and is next seen in Revelation 17 as John is whisked into the “wilderness” by the Spirit.

It is here “in the wilderness” that John claims to have seen “The woman was clothed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls, having in her hand a gold cup full of abominations and of the unclean things of her immorality”  

How convincing are her deceptive tactics and her harlotries? It says that she was clothed in “purple and scarlet” now read again the description of the beast after she has had her say…“a woman sitting on a scarlet beast, full of blasphemous names, having seven heads and ten horns.”

She is “sitting upon Satan’s beast” and they appear to have matching attire…a woman robed in scarlet…riding the scarlet beast of Satan…just let it simmer. For a time she appears to be symbolically in control of Satan’s beast. The color scarlet and red is a “mark” if you will, directly linked to “sin.” Forum member "Stewardofthemystery" really gave strong definition to this Truth in their posting on the mark of the beast.

Because of this, the apparent “attack” of Rev. 12:13-16 by the great red dragon upon the woman was more than likely a perverse negotiation with the woman. There is so much more to this…but I’ll leave it here for now.

Apparently they reached enough of an agreement between themselves…that when she is seen next…she is sitting on the beast himself…they teamed up…she has become whore and a prostitute, “no longer a wife” she is in this for her own personal gain…just think of religion for a moment.

Consider “Yahshua” as a type of this “Man Child” who was clearly “called out” of Israel “unto God” and seated upon His throne. This serves a picture of what will be the final instance of this “Man” that comes forth from a woman in the image and likeness of God, who will impose the  “divine standard of God on the earth” at the end of the age. It should be noted that this “divine standard on the earth” is what will bring about much the judgment of creation that we read about in Revelation.

This separation must be acknowledged and realized for the simple reason that if one goes to God to whom does the other go? She most definitely did not go to God or she would have been there together with her Son.

 “The woman fled into the wilderness where she *had a place prepared by God.” This would not be the first time God sends someone to the wilderness prepared by Him…the wilderness is a journey into desolation where your only provision and protection is God the Father…in desolation your only hope for life is your Father, hence those who reject Him…and His provision in the wilderness…die…because the wages of sin is death.

Consider the Lord after His baptism…a trip into the wilderness prepared by God. Consider Israel after Mt. Sinai… a trip into the wilderness prepared by God, the wilderness is symbolically a place of learning to trust in and obey God as your provision and protection or to continue rebel against Him.

What religious humanity learns in the wilderness…is…whether they believe and obey God…or not, because “…man does not live by bread alone, but man lives by everything that proceeds out of the mouth of the LORD.” This will be realized via one “mindset” or the other as a result of the wilderness journeys ultimate litmus test.

Tatwo...:)

[tatwo]

On 7/15/2023 at 8:52 AM, Markie51 said:

Centuries earlier, God had addressed this symbolic wife. (Isaiah 54:5, 13)  Jesus quoted this prophecy and showed that these sons were his faithful followers, who later formed the congregation of anointed Christians. (John 6:44, 45)  So these members, spoken of as God’s sons, are also children of God’s symbolic wife. (Romans 8:14)

The faithful followers “come out” of the “symbolic wife” because of her incessant idolatry and harlotry…the Son is separated from her by God.

On 7/15/2023 at 8:52 AM, Markie51 said:

The apostle Paul adds the final piece of information when he says: “The Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother.” (Genesis 3:15; Galatians 4:26; Philippians 3:20)  The “woman” seen by John, then, is “the Jerusalem above.”

Perhaps we can refine this a bit?

“The Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother.” I agree…”The “woman” seen by John, then, is “the Jerusalem above.” Not likely for a couple of reasons. She is separated from “Christ” by God…apostasy, and then she becomes a harlot riding a beast…Revelation 17.

It is the heavenly kingdom of God that is represented as the “Jerusalem above” therefore it is not likely to be the apostate religions of Babylon.

On 7/15/2023 at 8:52 AM, Markie51 said:

Since Paul spoke of her as “above,” and John sees her in heaven, she is clearly not an earthly city;

I agree…it is not a city of this “temporal world.”

On 7/15/2023 at 8:52 AM, Markie51 said:

neither is she the same as “New Jerusalem,” since that organization is the bride of Christ. (Revelation 21:2)

Well I have labored for a few things here…the primary being…that this woman is “false religion,” and the “son” she bore is the “corporate Christ…Head and Body” as one Man. The Jerusalem above, is the New Jerusalem, it is representational of the kingdom of God in heaven and on earth. It is where the bride of Christ,  the fully matured Christ, Head and Body dwell, the house of God, the temple of God. The “four living creatures” paint this picture beautifully.

Of course, this is where the son of God is raised…in a holy city…and as such the corporate man known as “Christ” as depicted in Rev. 12 has become directly proportional to its Head…the Lord Yahshua Christ.

Tatwo...:)

[tatwo]

On 7/15/2023 at 8:52 AM, Markie51 said:

Notice that she is crowned with 12 stars.  The number 12 is associated with completeness in an organizational setting.  Hence, these 12 stars seem to indicate that she is an organizational arrangement in heaven, just as ancient Jerusalem was on earth.

Very astute observation, I would agree with your discernment here. It is very well written as well, thank you Markie51.

My way of describing the same thing is that “twelve” is representative of God’s governmental order. An entity fully arrayed in the power and authority of the throne of God. I do like your version much better, ”completeness in an organizational setting…organizational arrangement in heaven”

I contend that she first came to earth on the day of Pentecost following the Lord’s trip back beyond the veil. She “was” clothed with the sun, a reference to the glory of the Lord…above…heaven, the moon under her feet a reflection of His heavenly glory…below…earth. It is the light of the revelation of the Lord Yahshua Christ.

The kingdom of God is a heavenly and earthly reality simultaneously…1 kingdom spanning two realms…a spiritual family in heaven and on earth…One King. I suspect that is what is symbolized by “24 elders”…12 in heaven, 12 on earth…and as you so eloquently stated…”completeness in an organizational setting…organizational arrangement in heaven.”

The significance of the number twelve is clear…the number twelve was the foundation of the nation of Israel: twelve sons. It is also the foundation of the Kingdom of Heaven: twelve apostles. It stands for government. The number twelve is a flashing sign that He means to talk about the Kingdom of Heaven and its rule.

On 7/15/2023 at 8:52 AM, Markie51 said:

This offspring or “child” refers to the birth of God’s Messianic Kingdom (government) with Jesus ruling as a king.

I have a deep sense that you are correct here…again Markie51! The child is the perfected Christ…Head Yahshua…Body Holy Spirit people of every tribe, tongue and nation…as one “Spirit MAN” having been “grown up into a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ…grown up in all aspects into Him who is the head, into Christ.”

Those with this understanding can see that this is a game changer…I say that because this “Man in the image and likeness of God”…bearing the character and nature of the Lord Yahshua…is revealed to a groaning creation here on the earth, as the “Son of God” and this in the presence of Satan who is thrown to the earth just as it says in Revelation 12.

This will bring a greater understanding to the measured temple from Revelation 11 that produces the “two witnesses”…as well.

This creates problems for any sort of discussion or doctrine of a “secret rapture to heaven” at any point during the end of the age.

Tatwo..:)

P.S. to Markie51 and anyone who may followed this...may the revelation of Christ appear as the brightness of His glory in your spirit.