THE ANTICHRIST IS ALIVE TODAY

[Frisbinator]

I think that the Anti-Christ is Osama Bin Laden, or perhaps George W. Bush himself! After all, as we all know, the prophesies point to BOTH of these men. Just check out your bibles if you don't believe me.

[other one]

I think that the Anti-Christ is Osama Bin Laden, or perhaps George W. Bush himself! After all, as we all know, the prophesies point to BOTH of these men. Just check out your bibles if you don't believe me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, I personally have read or listened to the New Testament a couple of hundred times in the past 50 years and I don't recall anything that would lead me to think either of them are the "anti-Christ"

So, I would ask for the scripture that gives you this information so I could understand why you think this...

se

[other one]

Daniel 11:21 refers to a

[Remnant]

all these theories based on the two catholic jesuits..... no wonder the protestants are confused.....

here they are for your leisure:

The following quotations are common knowledge to those who have researched this important topic:

"The Praeterist School, founded by the Jesuit Alcasar in 1614, explains the Revelation by the Fall of Jerusalem, or by the fall of Pagan Rome in 410 A.D? (G.S. Hitchcock, The Beasts and the Little Horn, p. 7).

"The praeterist view found no favor and was hardly so much as thought of in the time of primitive Christianity. Those who lived near the date of the book of Revelation itself had no idea that its groups of imagery were intended merely to describe things then passing, and to be in a few years completed. This view is said to have been first promulgated in anything like completeness by the Jesuit Alcasar, in his 'Vestigatio Arcani Sensus in Apocalypsi' (1604). Very nearly, the same plan was adopted by Grotius. The next great name among this school of interpreters is that of Bossuet the great antagonist of Protestantism." From Bulletin for Biblical Christianity Today by Dr. Ronald Cooke (see http://www.ianpaisley.org/article.asp?ArtKey=twaddle).

"Accordingly, towards the close of the century of the Reformation, two of her most learned doctors set themselves to the task, each endeavoring by different means to accomplish the same end, namely, that of diverting men's minds from perceiving the fulfillment of the prophecies of the Antichrist in the Papal system. The Jesuit Alcasar devoted himself to bring into prominence the Preterist method of interpretation, which we have already briefly noticed, and thus endeavoring to show that the prophecies of Antichrist were fulfilled before the Popes ever ruled in Rome, and therefore could not apply to the Papacy..." (From Daniel and the Revelation: The Chart of Prophecy and Our Place In It, A Study of the Historical and Futurist Interpretation, by Joseph Tanner, published in London by Hodder and Stoughton, 1898, pages 16,17).

Futurism

"The futurist scheme, as I have elsewhere stated, was first, or nearly first, propounded about the year 1585 by the Jesuit Ribera; as the fittest o?ne to turn aside the Protestant application of the Apocalyptic prophecy from the Church of Rome. In England and Ireland of late years it has been brought into vogue chiefly by Mr. S.R. Maitland and Mr. Burgh; followed by the writer of four of the Oxford Tracts o?n Antichrist. Its general characteristic is to view the whole Apocalypse, at least after the Epistles to the Seven Churches, as a representation of the events of the consummation and second advent, all still future: the Israel depicted in it being the literal Israel; the temple, Apoc. xi., a literal rebuilt Jewish temple at Jerusalem; and the Antichrist, or Apocalyptic Beast under his last head, a personal infidel Antichrist, fated to reign and triumph over the saints for 3 1/2 years, (the days in the chronological periods being all literal days) [rather than years], until Christ's coming shall destroy him" (Horae, Vol. 4, p. 597).

According to the Futurist viewpoint, "the whole 1800 years that have passed subsequently are to be viewed as a blank in prophecy; the period having been purposely skipped over by the Divine Spirit, in order at o?nce to plunge the reader into the events and times of the consummation" (ibid.).

In other words, when "Futurists" look at the book of Revelation, they see little or no prophetic fulfillments during the entire course of Christian history. In it's modern form, almost everything is predicted to be fulfilled after the Rapture, after we're gone, with two of it's primary characteristics being: 1) The belief in a single, future evil Antichrist person, and 2) the belief that prophecy will then center around the literal Jewish nation with it's supposedly rebuilt temple.

Futurists often claim that Revelation 4:1 describes the Rapture and that everything beyond this will occur during a supposed 7-year tribulation. It's modern advocates often claim that after Revelation 4, God's Church is not o?n earth because it is not specifically mentioned. Thus the absense of the word "Church" is used as proof of its removal.

It is hoped that the following points will reveal the failure of Futurism:

1) It doesn't make sense that God would pass over 2000 years of Christian history in His prophecies, especially since the foundation prophecy of Daniel 2 reveals a straightforward historical succession from the days of Babylon all the way down to the end of time.

2) A little historical research will reveal that the majority of Christian commentators o?n the book of Revelation down throughout Christian history have definitely seen the Church as being o?n earth from Revelation 4-20.

3) Revelation 4:1 does not describe the Rapture of the Church. It simply portrays John alone being taken up to heaven in a vision. Calling this "the Rapture" is really stretching it! John did not actually go to heaven in 4:1. His toes were still o?n Patmos.

4) Although the word "Church" is not used in Revelation 4-21, there are many prophecies and statements that clearly reveal that the Church is in fact o?n earth during those times.

* The White Horse of the First Seal (Revelation 6:2): Although there are differences in the application of this symbol, a very large number have taken the same view as Pareus in his commentary (published in 1615). Elliott says, "In the four first seals he [Pareus] makes the horse the Church, Christ being its rider: - first white, with reference to its primitive purity; chiefly for the first 200 or 300 years: next red, with reference to its persecutions and blood-shedding of martyrs by the Pagan emperors ..." (Horae, Vol. 4, p. 474).

* The Fifth Trumpet (Revelation 9:4) does not hurt those who have "the seal of God o?n their foreheads." This has often been applied to historical Christians in God's Church (see The Army of Locusts).

* The Time of the Sounding of the Seventh Angel (Revelation 10:7): During this time, "the mystery of God [will] be finished." This "mystery of God" involves the preaching of Jesus Christ by His Church (Eph. 3:9, 10; Col. 4:3) and the fullness of Christ in the hearts of His people (Col. 1:26,27).

* The Pure Woman (Revelation 12:1, 6, 13, 17): Paul describes Christ's Church as a "chaste virgin" (2 Cor. 11:2) and as a "her" (Eph. 5:25). So does John in Revelation 19 which refers to Christ's "saints" as "His wife" (19:7, 8).

* The Faithful and Persecuted Saints against the Beast (Revelation 13, 14): The Beast makes "war with the saints" (13:7). "Here is the patience and faith of the saints" (13:10). "Here is the patience of the saints: Here are they who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus" (14:12). Who are these "saints"? Paul speaks of "all the churches of the saints" (1 Cor. 14:33). Thus wherever the saints are, there is Christ's Church.

* The Three Angel Messengers (Revelation 14:6-12, 14): Three final messages are represented as being given by angels right before the second coming of Jesus Christ. The first angel has the "everlasting gospel" to "preach" to all the world (14:6, KJV). This doesn't mean that literal angels will shout from the skies. Not at all. Rather, these angels represent messages being given by Christ's Church. It is the Church that is to "preach" the gospel to all the world before the end comes. Mat. 24:14.

* The Faithful Garment-Keepers before Armageddon (Revelation 16:15, 16): Right before Armageddon, Jesus says, "Behold, I come as a thief, blessed is he that watches, and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame ... Armageddon." It is faithful Christians in Christ's Church who hold o?nto the garments of His righteousness before the end.

* The Martrys (Revelation 6:9; 12:11; 17:6): Mystery Babylon is drunk with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus Christ. These martrys are faithful Christians in God's Church throughout history who have died for the truth of Christ.

* The Called-Out o?nes (Revelation 18:4): Before the final plagues fall (vs. 8), Jesus says, "Come out of her, my people ..." His people are His saints in His Church who have become trapped inside of spiritual Babylon.

* The Voice of the Bride (Revelation 18:23): Jesus pleads through His bride (His Church) to His "other sheep" (John 10:16) who are yet trapped inside the deceptions of Mystery Babylon - before it's too late.

* His Bride (Revelation 19:7, 8): Before Jesus returns, His wife makes "herself ready." This refers to Christ's Church.

* Martrys who resist the Beast (Revelation 20:4): Many are killed for "their witness to Jesus and for the word of God." During Earth's final crisis, true Christians in Christ's Church refuse to bow to the Beast, the Image, and the Mark - even until death.

Futurism views all of the above passages as applying o?nly to the "tribulation saints" who are forced to face a future one-man Antichrist after the Rapture. Yet this view ignores over a thousand years of Christian history and bloodshed during which faithful martryrs in the Church of Jesus Christ stood up against the real Beast and Harlot of Babylon.

Jesus Himself said, "On this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it" (Matthew 16:18). In Christian history, faithful souls have fought the Beast, Mystery Babylon, and the great Dragon himself. Yet "they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death" (Revelation 12:11).

end times info sight

check it out.

Edited August 27, 2005 by Remnant

[Skeptic]

Rev Turmoil, you are proof that the beast has its claws in you.  You hang on to traditions not biblical standards.  Everything you believe has been told to you by another man.  The bible says one thing and you say another.  Always trying to escape your duty, which is to fear God and keep his commandments.  I just made a lengthy post of the atrocities of the Catholic Popes.  Please read it.  You will agree with me, that it turns your stomach to know how much the Popes have put to death.  The figure is staggering.  So say that over 50 million christians were killed during the reign of the Popes..50 million men, women, children and babies-infants consigned to the flames of Rome.  Please dont tell me i am falling for lies.  It a shame to stand there and support and pay homage to an organization who has killed and murdered innocent men, women and children, and yes..babies and infants.  Your kind of madness, the world can do without.  We already have that kind of mentality going on now...Susan Smith..her little boys....The guy just killed his 9 year daughter and her friend.  Yes.. these are the same type of mentality of which the papacy ruled the world.  AND THAT what they want now...TO RULE AGAIN.  ANd it will be the SAME.  THE CHURCH NEVER CHANGES!!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I know this is an older debate, but I am new here and reading a lot. First I just want to say it seems there are a lot of good people here regardless of their religion or beliefs. But I find it hard to believe someone would call another out for paying homage to an organization who has killed and murdered innocent men, women, children,babies and infants when the christian God is guilty of all the same things.

[rollinTHUNDER]

But I find it hard to believe someone would call another out for paying homage to an organization who has killed and murdered innocent men, women, children,babies and infants when the christian God is guilty of all the same things.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

YIKES! - I don't know what you believe or don't believe, but all of the unbelief in this world will never be enough to put God on trial. If this is not a typo, I wouldn't want to be in your shoes on Judgment Day.

Hmmmmm? Maybe your handle says it all?

[Skeptic]

YIKES! - I don't know what you believe or don't believe, but all of the unbelief in this world will never be enough to put God on trial. If this is not a typo, I wouldn't want to be in your shoes on Judgment Day.

I'm not judging anyone, but I have read the Bible countless times and it clearly shows God was responsible directly and indirectly for thousands of murders including women and children. I didn't write those things so I'm not the one accusing him. I was only pointing out that christians condemn others for such horrible deeds but worship one who has done the same thing.

[Guest Zayit]

YIKES! - I don't know what you believe or don't believe, but all of the unbelief in this world will never be enough to put God on trial. If this is not a typo, I wouldn't want to be in your shoes on Judgment Day.

I'm not judging anyone, but I have read the Bible countless times and it clearly shows God was responsible directly and indirectly for thousands of murders including women and children. I didn't write those things so I'm not the one accusing him. I was only pointing out that christians condemn others for such horrible deeds but worship one who has done the same thing.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Have you ever chosen to search for the reason why?

[Skeptic]

YIKES! - I don't know what you believe or don't believe, but all of the unbelief in this world will never be enough to put God on trial. If this is not a typo, I wouldn't want to be in your shoes on Judgment Day.

I'm not judging anyone, but I have read the Bible countless times and it clearly shows God was responsible directly and indirectly for thousands of murders including women and children. I didn't write those things so I'm not the one accusing him. I was only pointing out that christians condemn others for such horrible deeds but worship one who has done the same thing.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Have you ever chosen to search for the reason why?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

For the murders?? or for the reason people worship him??

If it's for the murders, there is no good and reasonable excuse.

If it's for the reason, I know the answer for that as well. So we wont get murdered ourselves because the promise is, he is comming back to murder some more.

[Giaour]

You seem to be throwing around the word "murder" very easily.

Killing is quite different from murder.